Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Wangming]

I see where you're coming from, I really do.

But I just can't ever understand how single specs would work. I gave my example in regards to Dragonknight earlier but what about those who have always wanted to play a Bard, but are pigeon holed into playing the only Bard spec which is a healer? What if they don't like healing? What if they aren't good at it, or are anxious about healing and therefore don't feel comfortable? At least a second DPS spec would facilitate those kinds of players.

What about our poor Teriz being forced to play a Tinker as DPS when he's always wanted to play as a Mech piloting tank?

I'll definitely agree dual spec is a good idea. I just can't get behind single spec classes from both a balancing perspective and possible player engagement perspective.

The easiest solution if single spec classes were to be a thing would be just to make them pure DPS I guess, but that would just feel underwhelming, wouldn't it?

No, the easiest solution would be for people to get out of their comfort zone. Take me, for example. In all my years in WoW, I was a DPS. Every MMO I tried, I was a DPS cause I was affraid of the responsibility. I also mained DPS at first in FFXIV, but when I was kinda bored with doing the same thing over again, i started leveling healers and I actually enjoyed them a lot. And while Ninja is still my main I like to do healing from time to time. The feeling of being in control of the battlefield is great.

[Polybius]

I see where you're coming from, I really do.

But I just can't ever understand how single specs would work. I gave my example in regards to Dragonknight earlier but what about those who have always wanted to play a Bard, but are pigeon holed into playing the only Bard spec which is a healer? What if they don't like healing? What if they aren't good at it, or are anxious about healing and therefore don't feel comfortable? At least a second DPS spec would facilitate those kinds of players.

What about our poor Teriz being forced to play a Tinker as DPS when he's always wanted to play as a Mech piloting tank?

I'll definitely agree dual spec is a good idea. I just can't get behind single spec classes from both a balancing perspective and possible player engagement perspective.

The easiest solution if single spec classes were to be a thing would be just to make them pure DPS I guess, but that would just feel underwhelming, wouldn't it?

Maybe they'll add more specs over time?

[Nymrohd]

I see where you're coming from, I really do.

But I just can't ever understand how single specs would work. I gave my example in regards to Dragonknight earlier but what about those who have always wanted to play a Bard, but are pigeon holed into playing the only Bard spec which is a healer? What if they don't like healing? What if they aren't good at it, or are anxious about healing and therefore don't feel comfortable? At least a second DPS spec would facilitate those kinds of players.

What about our poor Teriz being forced to play a Tinker as DPS when he's always wanted to play as a Mech piloting tank?

I'll definitely agree dual spec is a good idea. I just can't get behind single spec classes from both a balancing perspective and possible player engagement perspective.

The easiest solution if single spec classes were to be a thing would be just to make them pure DPS I guess, but that would just feel underwhelming, wouldn't it?

In the case of the bard, I think it WOULD be a dps, just one with significant support and off healing. Not unlike a ret paladin or enhancement shaman.

One more involved idea would be to have one spec but the ability to do multiple roles in one spec. We had that with gladiator in WoD and for a long while we had that with Feral for druid (which included tanking). It should be possible to have two roles function with the same core gameplay (I'd say it is even easy if it's tank and melee dps).

[Northelim]

On top of all the other issues with these micro classes (art, balance, leveling, pvp, meta, etc) that others and myself have called out, do we really think they’d add another class with the DK initials? I mean… how many straws are needed to break this camels back?

The initials are not really an issue... the community can create new initials for them like DGK or DNK or simply call them Dragon tanks.

We have Warriors and Warlocks, both have the same 3 letters at start. All the warlocks go by Locks and Warriors simply War.

[Nymrohd]

No, the easiest solution would be for people to get out of their comfort zone. Take me, for example. In all my years in WoW, I was a DPS. Every MMO I tried, I was a DPS cause I was affraid of the responsibility. I also mained DPS at first in FFXIV, but when I was kinda bored with doing the same thing over again, i started leveling healers and I actually enjoyed them a lot. And while Ninja is still my main I like to do healing from time to time. The feeling of being in control of the battlefield is great.

I can see that happen with healing. NOT with tanking. The way WoW works these days, you will struggle to find a tanking spot in raids (tanks are usually officers, guilds would rather find someone in the guild to take over for a tank leaving than recruit one) outside PuGs and tanking M+ (heroic dungeons are dead, the queues can take forever and the rewards are non-existent) is extremely stressful with the demands of the community on tanks being pretty damn crazy (know every route, for each type of affix, know what every pack does, over ten dungeons and about 35-40 bosses).

[KainneAbsolute]

What if instead of borrowed power, Blizzard brings us new/thematic essences each expansion?

[Nymrohd]

On top of all the other issues with these micro classes (art, balance, leveling, pvp, meta, etc) that others and myself have called out, do we really think they’d add another class with the DK initials? I mean… how many straws are needed to break this camels back?

And at what point do we say : if they’re throwing this much stuff at us (even stuff never heard of before in lore), does that leave anything for the future?
4 new, full classes could literally carry the game into 2032 if released one every other expansion. Why do halfassed 1 spec versions (requiring the same amount of art as a full class) in one giant wave? What’s 12.0 going to have?

I still don't get what a Dragon knight is. The class does not exist in lore. Dragonsworn are all over the place in WoW but they are unique individuals who using existing classes. Why people want a class archetype that is barely established over the literally dozens of archetypes that are well established is beyond me. Not saying that they cannot create a Dragon Knight out of scratch and make it good; they created Pandaria! But I'd rather have any of the many archetypes that already exist and are unplayable.

[TriHard]

I really hope the Dragonflight leak from the other thread is true.

It would just be so sick to have the chance to play all those classes and their (hopefully not too far away) future specs.
Though it would be a shame if we had to wait years upon years for them to be completed.

I just hope they are actual classes and not a part of some stupid system.

[Catastrophy349]

I really hope we get Aspect/Dragon Power in 10.0. Personally, I would have preferred ONE power grind system in SL instead of 15 currencies/ways to be optimal.

[SniperCT]

A huge part of rpgs is choosing an archetype and playing with it. Warcraft has done an amazing job of establishing a truly staggering array of archetypes, especially some that are truly specific and tied to race. And then has made only some of them available. Doubt it is even a majority. People have been trying with transmog and toys to be able to play as archetypes they love for ages. Class skin threads are so popular on most WoW forums, as a possible way for people to be able to experience an archetype.

I totally get that. But I also think at some point you could reach a point where there are too many classes, and it becomes bloated. Then there's the balancing aspect, both in PvE and PvP.

And you have to start from scratch every time you roll a new class. FF14 cured me of my altitus lmao In wow I had one of almost every class at cap in Legion, plus some duplicates.

Now I look at my character select screen and it's over whelming (though I think changing the screen to let you page through left to right instead of scroll would help a lot)

I know me, I'll roll a new class just to try it. And if I like it that's another alt to sit there cluttering my screen. (I realize this is a Me Problem, lol)

[KainneAbsolute]

About classes: a new class in a while is cool. You explore new mechanics, new abilities, new lore.

I agree that a dragon class, tinker and bard can have 3+ specs:

Dragon class
- Tank: black dragonflight
- Healer: red/green dragonflight like Alex in Hots.
- Arcane dps caster: blue dragonflight
- Support chronomancer: bronze dragonflight

Tinker:
- Mech tank
- Ranged dps (turret, artillery)
- Alchemy healer

Perfomer:
- Lorewalker: music and inspiration support (Zereth Mortis music?)
- Dancer: high mobility melee dps (Not very wow)
- Painter: ranged dps/summoner (Not very wow)

Other missing themes is mail class, roguish ranged class (dual pistols/crossbows spec), battlemage/magicknight.

[Villager720]

The initials are not really an issue... the community can create new initials for them like DGK or DNK or simply call them Dragon tanks.

We have Warriors and Warlocks, both have the same 3 letters at start. All the warlocks go by Locks and Warriors simply War.

But why not just dragonsworn (which exists in lore..sort of)? There’s just too much stuff in the “leak” for micro classes that doesn’t make logical sense from a design perspective. You can make any random, non lore relevant class you want into just one spec, and you choose to make up one with an incredibly similar name to another class? You make Necromancers, wardens, dark rangers, and dragonsworn class skins but then make chronomancers and dragon knights actual classes?

I find it strains belief on so many fronts.

[Nymrohd]

I totally get that. But I also think at some point you could reach a point where there are too many classes, and it becomes bloated. Then there's the balancing aspect, both in PvE and PvP.

And you have to start from scratch every time you roll a new class. FF14 cured me of my altitus lmao In wow I had one of almost every class at cap in Legion, plus some duplicates.

Now I look at my character select screen and it's over whelming (though I think changing the screen to let you page through left to right instead of scroll would help a lot)

I know me, I'll roll a new class just to try it. And if I like it that's another alt to sit there cluttering my screen. (I realize this is a Me Problem, lol)

Oh I fully believe that alts should radically be changed in WoW. If it was up to me, you would be able to roll an alt at max level or close to it (and getting to max level after going through a short and unique experience). We'd have the MoP feature of getting double rep if your main has exalted (and something akin to the double rate of valor gain once one of your characters had hit the valor cap). Heck I'd consider having gear be BoA instead of BoP like with ESO.

[therumblings]

A dragon class seems like a much easier conceptually and more thematic option for a dragon expansion than four new classes with only one spec. You could easily have 5 specs.

[Wangming]

I still don't get what a Dragon knight is. The class does not exist in lore. Dragonsworn are all over the place in WoW but they are unique individuals who using existing classes. Why people want a class archetype that is barely established over the literally dozens of archetypes that are well established is beyond me. Not saying that they cannot create a Dragon Knight out of scratch and make it good; they created Pandaria! But I'd rather have any of the many archetypes that already exist and are unplayable.

Yeah Dragon Knight is a week point for me as well. Like this is supposed to be the "We are sorry, please come back" fanservice expansion. Why bother with a class nobody has even heared of? Why not give us a new race instead?

[Magenugget]

The playerbase is majority casual and honestly not all of them go meta, this is the great thing about FFXIV if you want to be meta you can if you want to play the class you enjoy then you just play it, it works well in FFXIV why wouldnt it here?

It already doesn't work for specs, especially if you're a casual gamer because casual gamers have no set m+ or raid groups. If your spec is at the bottom of a tier list on wowhead you will have a hard time finding groups. I've been rejected for content that I already outgeared or that I didn't need for my vault, that's how bad it is. I know it's a community problem but it's a problem nonetheless.

[Therougetitan]

A dragon class seems like a much easier conceptually and more thematic option for a dragon expansion than four new classes with only one spec. You could easily have 5 specs.

You could but at the same time two of the dragonflights overlap a ton with existing classes. How a blue dragon would play is basically a mage and how a green dragon would play would be very similar to druid except maybe more poison oriented abilities. Red/Black/Bronze could be unique takes.

A dragon class is definitely more easy though you are right. The baseline class could have a breath ability that changes based upon your spec.

[huth]

The playerbase is majority casual and honestly not all of them go meta, this is the great thing about FFXIV if you want to be meta you can if you want to play the class you enjoy then you just play it, it works well in FFXIV why wouldnt it here?

Far more than is remotely sensible do. Yes, for most of them it won't make a meaningful difference. They'll still expect it.

[Sharby]

Yes absolutely, FFXIV seems to have nailed the alt friendlyness by eliminating alts altogether and it works extremely well.

Not as much as you might think.


Namely, gearing alt jobs is a nightmare as it requires you to get the WEEKLY drops on every single one, and for the melees alone, there are THREE different sets for them. Not to mention EVERY job requires currency gear which is super hard to come by and is never unlocked.


This is not even to get into the logistics of lugging around all those gear sets and the fact that there (currently) aren't enough transmog slots to have a transmog for every job.


At least in current WoW, you aren't timegated with gear (mostly) and can spam M+ to get 265+ ilvl easy.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah Dragon Knight is a week point for me as well. Like this is supposed to be the "We are sorry, please come back" fanservice expansion. Why bother with a class nobody has even heared of? Why not give us a new race instead?

Yeah I think a dragon related race (most likely the Draconid imo) would be interesting. I do wonder why they'd join either of the factions though. Pandas never were properly integrated.

- - - Updated - - -

You could but at the same time two of the dragonflights overlap a ton with existing classes. How a blue dragon would play is basically a mage and how a green dragon would play would be very similar to druid except maybe more poison oriented abilities. Red/Black/Bronze could be unique takes.

A dragon class is definitely more easy though you are right. The baseline class could have a breath ability that changes based upon your spec.

Eh, black is pretty much the fire and earth part of Elemental Shaman.
And so far all Dragonsworn have specifically been sworn to one flight. Not all of them.