Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Rae888]

Since last night I've been thinking about the detailed/questionable Dragonflight leak posted on this site and idk.... the more I think about it the more of a nagging feeling I get that it might actually be right. Beyond getting the name right, there are a lot of things that line up with the PTR even though the post was made long before the PTR went up:

-Revamp of Quelthalas aligns with the zone name used for the Blood Elf quests in 9.2.5

-Revamp of Lordaeron lines up with map changes around the Undercity on 9.2.5

-The fact that the blood elf armor questline randomly has full voice acting makes me believe they had those actors in studio already for more extensive work

-The Khadgar/Jaina scene in 9.2.5 gives a convenient reason why Khadgar would be absent from Dalaran in the next expansion

-The existence of Uldaz was first mentioned by MOTHER in 8.3, around the time they would have been doing initial conceptual work for 10.0. This is also the patch where they brought back all the dragons as characters for the Heart Chamber quests.The leak claims Uldaz is a zone.

-The leak mentions dark rangers long before T&E came out with that video laying out all the evidence for them (though this could have been surmised by any clever person paying attention)

Yes the announcement date is wrong, but of all the things this is the most likely to be changed at the last minute.

I don't know... I'm not saying it's legit. I still don't really believe it, but there are *so* many things that coincidentally line up with the PTR, and after some number of coincidences you have to start paying real attention to it.

[Jokubas]

So, Dragonflight!

Wasn't expecting to get information like this or at this time.

I don't have much to say on the name itself. It doesn't really tell us anything other than there'll be a dragon theme, which was the prevailing theory anyway. Obviously it stands out that it's singular, but who can say what meaning that has?

The art and logo are interesting if no one has been able to debunk them so far. I'm not fond of what looks like potentially another desaturated-on-desaturated color scheme like Battle for Azeroth, but whatever I guess. Otherwise it doesn't add much to the speculation.

At this point, this hilariously didn't really narrow anything down. The February "leak" is the closest thing, but as has already been covered a million times, there's nothing about it that couldn't have been guessed at the time, though I appreciate the fun of it lining up anyway. If Awakenings was the name we got, we'd still have half a million "leaks" associated with it.

One thing I want to say about the "micro classes" is that, looking at the leak as a whole, the micro classes feel less to me like "weirdly lazy classes they only did one spec for" and more like "class skins that didn't line up well with an existing class, so they fell into a special category." Specifically, I'm looking at Chronomancer. Someone said to me "why isn't that just a mage class skin" and I pointed out it was because it's a healing spec, and mage doesn't have one so it can't just be a skin for mage. The other class skins have some functional changes, but not role-level ones.

I'd really love to get that leak, honestly, even though there's nothing in it that grabs me personally (in other words, nothing like ogres or a spellbreaker class skin). Setting the precedent of class skins alone would be great, and this covers a lot of things I'd like to see even if I don't plan to play them.

For the record, I don't think it's impossible to get something crazy like that out of the game anymore. Not to be optimistic, but frankly realistic (the cynicism is in the implementation, not the possibility). No one saw the Allied Races coming. While their implementation left something to be desired, they still essentially covered the long-requested sub-race feature. Even Shadowlands initially blew everyone's minds with the new customization stuff (and how it continued to add sub-races like the long-requested Wildhammer). I think a lot of us (even myself) take it for granted because we learned about it forever ago and they didn't touch it much during the expansion, but my point is that Blizzard totally still does unexpected big features. I mean, maybe class skins will be poorly supported post launch, but that doesn't mean they can't happen.

[Vakir]

@Rae888

I mean, you ain't wrong. Besides sheer cynicism that a lot of it sounds too good to be true, my remaining reason for not buying into it is that the user is banned.

[deviantcultist]

Sounds like a stale Shadowlands 2.

Meaning it's probably legit.

Hard to disagree honestly. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are trying to aim for a Legion-tier expansion with the intention of getting back some lost faith.

[Revamp Man]

He also later posted admitting he made it up, so I don't know why people are still talking about therewillbedragons leak.

i think so because correct me if im wrong he was the one that made dragonflight

[Villager720]

@Rae888

I mean, you ain't wrong. Besides sheer cynicism that a lot of it sounds too good to be true, my remaining reason for not buying into it is that the user is banned.

If it wasn’t for micro classes, I’d be on the bandwagon too.
But those are just a logical and logistical nightmare. I just cannot fathom why or how Blizzard would even attempt this.

[Vakir]

Hard to disagree honestly. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are trying to aim for a Legion-tier expansion with the intention of getting back some lost faith.

It's at the very least debunked. That exact post, that precise fake leak, is exactly the one outside maybe Viking's EoD that I thought could be the case. Very glad to be wrong.

i think so because correct me if im wrong he was the one that made dragonflight

Nah. His was untitled. Chromatus made Dragonflight, and he's banned after only two posts of doing nothing wrong, which again is usually a sign of evasion/sockpuppeting. Not a topic we're allowed to talk about, but just saying. :/

That hurts the credibility a lot. It implies either lots of fakes posted by the same guy, or that he had reason to bullshit a burner account.

[Revamp Man]

I'd say this would be a really bad idea just because two (3 if you include Overwatch) of Blizzard's big tentpoles are already in maintenance mode. Hearthstone can't support the entire company.

while 13.0 isnt updating you can do things like boosting old raids or adding seasons and theres also classic

its not ideal but a possibility

[KayRule]

Microclasses and all zones being end-game content with no levelling are the most amazing things they could do to save the game to be honest, I feel anyone complaining about them likely complained about Demon Hunter having only 2 specs or the Level Squish...

[Hitei]

Microclasses and all zones being end-game content with no levelling are the most amazing things they could do to save the game to be honest, I feel anyone complaining about them likely complained about Demon Hunter having only 2 specs or the Level Squish...

Adding a single class with two specs (or one) is not the same as adding four classes with one.

[Vakir]

Adding a single class with two specs (or one) is not the same as adding four classes with one.

Plus skins that are way, way more intensive than I think people realize.

Class skins alone feel like a great feature idea, but they're the sort of thing that would probably be dished out gradually over time, not dissimilar to their original plans for the race updates in WoD. And that's JUST reskinning existing classes. People don't seem to understand that you'd be altering the effects and names and tooltips of dozens of variables.

Unless the "micro-classes" are similar to Havoc at its absolute most dishwater boring and bland version, it's a massive endeavor just to have ONE new set of icons, mechanics, abilities, talents, etc. And now casting animations are class based and there's tons of unique animations for melee combat and weapons for every single class. So that's highly demanding too.

[Revamp Man]

Microclasses and all zones being end-game content with no levelling are the most amazing things they could do to save the game to be honest, I feel anyone complaining about them likely complained about Demon Hunter having only 2 specs or the Level Squish...

level squish didnt really remove anything though it just looked like it

leveling makes sense in both a storytelling sense and just a feeling of gaining power otherwise the power jump would have to be so massive in terms of gearing that a level 60 would be able to squash a level 60 dungeon and theres no reason to extend TW either

the microclasses would also play like this

im a bard i need enough damage to be able to level quicker than other classes with a dps spec while also needing
utility for a raid spot
throughput for the raid spot
all while being unique enough in playstyle

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Wow/warcraft was always about horde and alliance, their races, and how they interact with each other and the outside world, anything beyond that is filler.

Current writers are trying to make this a singleplayer game, with a pet story with the characters they like, is bound to fail.

Definitely agree—I think the whole "geometry" thing is excellent, but that's because I myself am Catholic and am inclined to bias along those lines. I very much dislike how it's just limiting an MMO, a genre entirely about multiple people and the interaction between said multitudes, to a single main character, especially one with no defined personality, motives, or voice. Maybe back in the day when "life quests" were going to be a thing that could've worked, but your character is a blank slate for you to project on to—the increasingly railroaded storyline reduces the autonomy of your character dramatically. I like when my characters have their own motives, personalities, and behaviors and the quests are just ways to get them going forward.

Maybe if more choice were added to the storyline that could help, but frankly I dislike the thought even to that extent—there's not much room for personal player choice unless the game is explicitly set in a world with multiple, simultaneous main characters all acting at once. In my mind, the player is best as an adventurer—ever since WoD, we've gone further and further away from what makes an MMO. I'd much prefer a real, legitimate experience in which the storyline is treated as being driven by ~1-2 million people at its record low. I think the old Silithus war campaign was a good example of that—players working together to move the storyline along, each of them getting to contribute to some extent or another. It even did allow for there to be a "main character", but only insofar as there was one player who rang the gong, one guild who finished the questline, and an entire server who actually contributed. Even then, I'd still like to see more variety. Those kinds of big, sweeping events also make it so that individual players who really achieve something actually do deserve the story praise they get. I could see some pretty amazing things with the more elaborate and direct storytelling mixed with an honest, multiplayer experience in which severs can come together (I can especially see this being awesome on roleplaying servers) to drive the plot forward. It would be excellent.

- - - Updated - - -

I was referring to the mobile game. It was never confirmed the mobile game won't have the "World of" branding or have some form of integration with the MMO.

I said "slim chance" because I don't want people making huge assumptions in either direction: I'm old enough to remember when the entire Blizzard fandom was sure Overwatch was going to be a WoW property because the Draenei used the word Overwatch at one point.

Why would they sell it in the exact same tiers of preorder as expansions, then?

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, they are so royally fucked if the MMO C Dragonflight leak is not the real one, anything else would be a major disappointment in comparison.

I hope for their sake that they have something real bonkers for their expansion reveal.

We already confirmed it wasn't. The dates are all wrong. It also sounds pretty lackluster to me—splitting resources between four, single-specialization classes? There's also the open question of "what is the difference between a Dragon Knight and a Dragonsworn?" It also seems odd that they'd add something so generally similar in name to a Death Knight, down to the same initials. I'm pretty sure this is something Blizzard would've thought about before deciding on a concept.

[Rae888]

If it wasn’t for micro classes, I’d be on the bandwagon too.
But those are just a logical and logistical nightmare. I just cannot fathom why or how Blizzard would even attempt this.

I totally agree and it's probably the main reason I'm skeptical too. That said, they know they need to do something huge to dig themselves out of Shadowlands, and this is the *type* of thing that has the potential to do that, if it's possible to execute and do it well.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Playable dragons in any form would be bonkers enough. The roleplayers would lose it.

I'm all for it.

- - - Updated - - -

How would that work in combat though?
It’s one thing to turn into a werewolf when entering combat - it’s another to turn into a dragon and somehow not roflstomp the gnome rogue attempting to stab you with daggers the size of your scales in the arena.

And if you don’t become a dragon in combat …why?

I could see it working as a gradual buildup to a Roflstomp transformation akin to Shadow Priests with insanity buildup circa Legion and with the end result being more like a Demon Hunter's metamorphosis.

- - - Updated - - -

-snip-

Agreed on all these points.

[Jokubas]

If it wasn’t for micro classes, I’d be on the bandwagon too.
But those are just a logical and logistical nightmare. I just cannot fathom why or how Blizzard would even attempt this.

The way I'm interpreting them is that they're basically Class Skins but for specs that don't exist.

Take Chronomancer. Cloth. Time Magic. Sounds like mage. They're a cloth caster with spells like Slow and Alter Time. The difference is, all mage specs are DPS and Chronomancer is healing. So it's sort of a mage class skin, but it can't be a skin on the nonexistent mage healing spec, so it's available independently of mage.

For Minstrel, I bet it'd be something similar, but for Rogue (bards are often associated with rogues in other games). It's a leather class, but it's a healer and Rogue has no healer, so Minstrel is its own thing (I don't think the instrument types are weapon types any more than fire or shouts are for Dragon Knight) but I would bet borrows heavily from Rogue.

I mean, I know I'm extrapolating from a random leak post and filling in gaps for them, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch. It's also the kind of thing that I think would seem like a let down if this is true. In other words, what was called new one-spec classes, basically end up more as standalone fourth specs for existing classes.

[Villager720]

I totally agree and it's probably the main reason I'm skeptical too. That said, they know they need to do something huge to dig themselves out of Shadowlands, and this is the *type* of thing that has the potential to do that, if it's possible to execute and do it well.

I agree, they do and I expect some sort of bonkers feature - but not only do the micro classes pose enormous logistical issues, the ones named don’t make sense considering what’s being relegated to class skins.

The main issue normally cited for potential new classes such as dark rangers, wardens, and necromancers is that they weren’t unique enough for a full class. They overlap with other specs/classes too much for unique gameplay spread across multiple specs.
Yet micro classes completely remove that barrier and yet they’re still just a skin? The fan favorites are merely just skins.
Meanwhile we get “new” classes we’ve never even heard of (dragon knights? minstrels?) that folks would need to level …in healing specs. Oooook.

I’m baffled by how accurate and yet nonsensical this leak manages to be.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I agree, they do and I expect some sort of bonkers feature - but not only do the micro classes pose enormous logistical issues, the ones named don’t make sense considering what’s being relegated to class skins.

The main issue normally cited for potential new classes such as dark rangers, wardens, and necromancers is that they weren’t unique enough for a full class. They overlap with other specs/classes too much for unique gameplay spread across multiple specs.
Yet micro classes completely remove that barrier and yet they’re still just a skin? Meanwhile we get “new” classes we’ve never even heard of (dragon knights? minstrels?)

I’m baffled by how accurate and yet nonsensical this leak manages to be.

I'd say I could even see Wardens or Necromancers being capable of holding a few specializations—I don't see as much out of Dark Rangers, but I'm frankly biased because I am not interested in them.

The issue for me is honestly more whether or not a class can front an expansion. A class is a huge selling point, and they'll never release a class that doesn't explicitly and strongly connect to the themes of an expansion. As per Blizzard, Demon Hunters were shelved all the way until Legion just because they didn't want to add them as early as TBC and didn't find the opportunity to add them in thematically until then—we won't get a class that is incongruous with the expansion. If we get a Dragon-themed expansion, expect not to get Dark Rangers as a full class, for instance, or even Tinkers (unless they find a really strong way to connect them, which I highly doubt they could). I highly expect that for Dragonflight, we'll probably get a Dragon-themed class, whether it be a full Dragon somehow or a Dragonsworn-type class.

[Vynestra]

I usually don't like to say "I'll be disappointed if..." at announcements, because they're really exciting and I hate going into it with a negative viewpoint, but if there isn't any new races or classes for the second expansion in a row, it will be quite disappointing.

I understand we got a lot of allied races in bfa, but that doesn't mean we don't want new things. And if they do not plan to announce a new class or add a new class for the foreseeable future, they need to set that expectation up front so we aren't disappointed when one doesn't get announced over and over.

[Villager720]

The way I'm interpreting them is that they're basically Class Skins but for specs that don't exist.

Take Chronomancer. Cloth. Time Magic. Sounds like mage. They're a cloth caster with spells like Slow and Alter Time. The difference is, all mage specs are DPS and Chronomancer is healing. So it's sort of a mage class skin, but it can't be a skin on the nonexistent mage healing spec, so it's available independently of mage.

For Minstrel, I bet it'd be something similar, but for Rogue (bards are often associated with rogues in other games). It's a leather class, but it's a healer and Rogue has no healer, so Minstrel is its own thing (I don't think the instrument types are weapon types any more than fire or shouts are for Dragon Knight) but I would bet borrows heavily from Rogue.

I mean, I know I'm extrapolating from a random leak post and filling in gaps for them, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch. It's also the kind of thing that I think would seem like a let down if this is true. In other words, what was called new one-spec classes, basically end up more as standalone fourth specs for existing classes.

Why not just add them as a 4 spec then, ya know? It’d be so much easier on them to implement and easier on players to utilize.