1. #35841
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    Microclasses and all zones being end-game content with no levelling are the most amazing things they could do to save the game to be honest, I feel anyone complaining about them likely complained about Demon Hunter having only 2 specs or the Level Squish...
    level squish didnt really remove anything though it just looked like it

    leveling makes sense in both a storytelling sense and just a feeling of gaining power otherwise the power jump would have to be so massive in terms of gearing that a level 60 would be able to squash a level 60 dungeon and theres no reason to extend TW either

    the microclasses would also play like this

    im a bard i need enough damage to be able to level quicker than other classes with a dps spec while also needing
    utility for a raid spot
    throughput for the raid spot
    all while being unique enough in playstyle

  2. #35842
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Wow/warcraft was always about horde and alliance, their races, and how they interact with each other and the outside world, anything beyond that is filler.

    Current writers are trying to make this a singleplayer game, with a pet story with the characters they like, is bound to fail.
    Definitely agree—I think the whole "geometry" thing is excellent, but that's because I myself am Catholic and am inclined to bias along those lines. I very much dislike how it's just limiting an MMO, a genre entirely about multiple people and the interaction between said multitudes, to a single main character, especially one with no defined personality, motives, or voice. Maybe back in the day when "life quests" were going to be a thing that could've worked, but your character is a blank slate for you to project on to—the increasingly railroaded storyline reduces the autonomy of your character dramatically. I like when my characters have their own motives, personalities, and behaviors and the quests are just ways to get them going forward.

    Maybe if more choice were added to the storyline that could help, but frankly I dislike the thought even to that extent—there's not much room for personal player choice unless the game is explicitly set in a world with multiple, simultaneous main characters all acting at once. In my mind, the player is best as an adventurer—ever since WoD, we've gone further and further away from what makes an MMO. I'd much prefer a real, legitimate experience in which the storyline is treated as being driven by ~1-2 million people at its record low. I think the old Silithus war campaign was a good example of that—players working together to move the storyline along, each of them getting to contribute to some extent or another. It even did allow for there to be a "main character", but only insofar as there was one player who rang the gong, one guild who finished the questline, and an entire server who actually contributed. Even then, I'd still like to see more variety. Those kinds of big, sweeping events also make it so that individual players who really achieve something actually do deserve the story praise they get. I could see some pretty amazing things with the more elaborate and direct storytelling mixed with an honest, multiplayer experience in which severs can come together (I can especially see this being awesome on roleplaying servers) to drive the plot forward. It would be excellent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I was referring to the mobile game. It was never confirmed the mobile game won't have the "World of" branding or have some form of integration with the MMO.

    I said "slim chance" because I don't want people making huge assumptions in either direction: I'm old enough to remember when the entire Blizzard fandom was sure Overwatch was going to be a WoW property because the Draenei used the word Overwatch at one point.
    Why would they sell it in the exact same tiers of preorder as expansions, then?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TriHard View Post
    Dude, they are so royally fucked if the MMO C Dragonflight leak is not the real one, anything else would be a major disappointment in comparison.

    I hope for their sake that they have something real bonkers for their expansion reveal.
    We already confirmed it wasn't. The dates are all wrong. It also sounds pretty lackluster to me—splitting resources between four, single-specialization classes? There's also the open question of "what is the difference between a Dragon Knight and a Dragonsworn?" It also seems odd that they'd add something so generally similar in name to a Death Knight, down to the same initials. I'm pretty sure this is something Blizzard would've thought about before deciding on a concept.

  3. #35843
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    If it wasn’t for micro classes, I’d be on the bandwagon too.
    But those are just a logical and logistical nightmare. I just cannot fathom why or how Blizzard would even attempt this.
    I totally agree and it's probably the main reason I'm skeptical too. That said, they know they need to do something huge to dig themselves out of Shadowlands, and this is the *type* of thing that has the potential to do that, if it's possible to execute and do it well.

  4. #35844
    Quote Originally Posted by Local Ardenweald Faerie View Post
    Playable dragons in any form would be bonkers enough. The roleplayers would lose it.
    I'm all for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    How would that work in combat though?
    It’s one thing to turn into a werewolf when entering combat - it’s another to turn into a dragon and somehow not roflstomp the gnome rogue attempting to stab you with daggers the size of your scales in the arena.

    And if you don’t become a dragon in combat …why?
    I could see it working as a gradual buildup to a Roflstomp transformation akin to Shadow Priests with insanity buildup circa Legion and with the end result being more like a Demon Hunter's metamorphosis.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Three Faced Goddess View Post
    -snip-
    Agreed on all these points.

  5. #35845
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    If it wasn’t for micro classes, I’d be on the bandwagon too.
    But those are just a logical and logistical nightmare. I just cannot fathom why or how Blizzard would even attempt this.
    The way I'm interpreting them is that they're basically Class Skins but for specs that don't exist.

    Take Chronomancer. Cloth. Time Magic. Sounds like mage. They're a cloth caster with spells like Slow and Alter Time. The difference is, all mage specs are DPS and Chronomancer is healing. So it's sort of a mage class skin, but it can't be a skin on the nonexistent mage healing spec, so it's available independently of mage.

    For Minstrel, I bet it'd be something similar, but for Rogue (bards are often associated with rogues in other games). It's a leather class, but it's a healer and Rogue has no healer, so Minstrel is its own thing (I don't think the instrument types are weapon types any more than fire or shouts are for Dragon Knight) but I would bet borrows heavily from Rogue.

    I mean, I know I'm extrapolating from a random leak post and filling in gaps for them, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch. It's also the kind of thing that I think would seem like a let down if this is true. In other words, what was called new one-spec classes, basically end up more as standalone fourth specs for existing classes.
    Last edited by Jokubas; 2022-04-04 at 03:40 AM.

  6. #35846
    Quote Originally Posted by Rae888 View Post
    I totally agree and it's probably the main reason I'm skeptical too. That said, they know they need to do something huge to dig themselves out of Shadowlands, and this is the *type* of thing that has the potential to do that, if it's possible to execute and do it well.
    I agree, they do and I expect some sort of bonkers feature - but not only do the micro classes pose enormous logistical issues, the ones named don’t make sense considering what’s being relegated to class skins.

    The main issue normally cited for potential new classes such as dark rangers, wardens, and necromancers is that they weren’t unique enough for a full class. They overlap with other specs/classes too much for unique gameplay spread across multiple specs.
    Yet micro classes completely remove that barrier and yet they’re still just a skin? The fan favorites are merely just skins.
    Meanwhile we get “new” classes we’ve never even heard of (dragon knights? minstrels?) that folks would need to level …in healing specs. Oooook.

    I’m baffled by how accurate and yet nonsensical this leak manages to be.
    Last edited by Villager720; 2022-04-04 at 03:42 AM.

  7. #35847
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    I agree, they do and I expect some sort of bonkers feature - but not only do the micro classes pose enormous logistical issues, the ones named don’t make sense considering what’s being relegated to class skins.

    The main issue normally cited for potential new classes such as dark rangers, wardens, and necromancers is that they weren’t unique enough for a full class. They overlap with other specs/classes too much for unique gameplay spread across multiple specs.
    Yet micro classes completely remove that barrier and yet they’re still just a skin? Meanwhile we get “new” classes we’ve never even heard of (dragon knights? minstrels?)

    I’m baffled by how accurate and yet nonsensical this leak manages to be.
    I'd say I could even see Wardens or Necromancers being capable of holding a few specializations—I don't see as much out of Dark Rangers, but I'm frankly biased because I am not interested in them.

    The issue for me is honestly more whether or not a class can front an expansion. A class is a huge selling point, and they'll never release a class that doesn't explicitly and strongly connect to the themes of an expansion. As per Blizzard, Demon Hunters were shelved all the way until Legion just because they didn't want to add them as early as TBC and didn't find the opportunity to add them in thematically until then—we won't get a class that is incongruous with the expansion. If we get a Dragon-themed expansion, expect not to get Dark Rangers as a full class, for instance, or even Tinkers (unless they find a really strong way to connect them, which I highly doubt they could). I highly expect that for Dragonflight, we'll probably get a Dragon-themed class, whether it be a full Dragon somehow or a Dragonsworn-type class.

  8. #35848
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Heartbreak City
    Posts
    4,830
    I usually don't like to say "I'll be disappointed if..." at announcements, because they're really exciting and I hate going into it with a negative viewpoint, but if there isn't any new races or classes for the second expansion in a row, it will be quite disappointing.

    I understand we got a lot of allied races in bfa, but that doesn't mean we don't want new things. And if they do not plan to announce a new class or add a new class for the foreseeable future, they need to set that expectation up front so we aren't disappointed when one doesn't get announced over and over.

  9. #35849
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokubas View Post
    The way I'm interpreting them is that they're basically Class Skins but for specs that don't exist.

    Take Chronomancer. Cloth. Time Magic. Sounds like mage. They're a cloth caster with spells like Slow and Alter Time. The difference is, all mage specs are DPS and Chronomancer is healing. So it's sort of a mage class skin, but it can't be a skin on the nonexistent mage healing spec, so it's available independently of mage.

    For Minstrel, I bet it'd be something similar, but for Rogue (bards are often associated with rogues in other games). It's a leather class, but it's a healer and Rogue has no healer, so Minstrel is its own thing (I don't think the instrument types are weapon types any more than fire or shouts are for Dragon Knight) but I would bet borrows heavily from Rogue.

    I mean, I know I'm extrapolating from a random leak post and filling in gaps for them, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch. It's also the kind of thing that I think would seem like a let down if this is true. In other words, what was called new one-spec classes, basically end up more as standalone fourth specs for existing classes.
    Why not just add them as a 4 spec then, ya know? It’d be so much easier on them to implement and easier on players to utilize.

  10. #35850
    Leveling as a healer won’t matter if the class is designed with soloing in mind. A class without a DPS spec to fall back on is something we’ve never had, so if they actually tried it they’d obviously design it with greater solo potential in mind.

  11. #35851
    Quote Originally Posted by Zankai27 View Post
    Leveling as a healer won’t matter if the class is designed with soloing in mind. A class without a DPS spec to fall back on is something we’ve never had, so if they actually tried it they’d obviously design it with greater solo potential in mind.
    But what’s the virtue of doing this? Why not smush those “new playstyle” specs into just one new class and save yourself the logistical burden of 3 extra armor sets for every patch until the end of time?

  12. #35852
    ok who has the spreadsheet

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    Why not just add them as a 4 spec then, ya know? It’d be so much easier on them to implement and easier on players to utilize.
    exactly
    tinker can be a new spec for hunter
    chronomancer for mages
    dragon knight for warrior
    minstrel for priest

  13. #35853
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Heartbreak City
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    I agree, they do and I expect some sort of bonkers feature - but not only do the micro classes pose enormous logistical issues, the ones named don’t make sense considering what’s being relegated to class skins.

    The main issue normally cited for potential new classes such as dark rangers, wardens, and necromancers is that they weren’t unique enough for a full class. They overlap with other specs/classes too much for unique gameplay spread across multiple specs.
    Yet micro classes completely remove that barrier and yet they’re still just a skin? The fan favorites are merely just skins.
    Meanwhile we get “new” classes we’ve never even heard of (dragon knights? minstrels?) that folks would need to level …in healing specs. Oooook.

    I’m baffled by how accurate and yet nonsensical this leak manages to be.
    I mean the writing has been on the wall that the xpac was gonna be dragon themed for a long time. There are only so many variations involving dragons that it could be, if you throw enough shit on a wall eventually it'll stick. It's the law of infinite probability, by people flooding the forums with their bullshit "leaks" they're increasing the chance that someone is going to guess A) Parts that are accurate and B) the name of the xpac.

  14. #35854
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    But what’s the virtue of doing this? Why not smush those “new playstyle” specs into just one new class and save yourself the logistical burden of 3 extra armor sets for every patch until the end of time?
    Ugh, Actual cringe.

  15. #35855
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    But what’s the virtue of doing this? Why not smush those “new playstyle” specs into just one new class and save yourself the logistical burden of 3 extra armor sets for every patch until the end of time?
    So the way I see it, it’s to set the groundwork for a variety of new play styles that don’t necessarily mesh together; and with 1-spec but several-once-classes, you create a lot of variety for players and can easily build upon them in the future.

    I can see the difficulty in combining dragon class, tinker, bard-ish class into something cohesive; each class is only 1/2 of what Demon Hunter was; I think it would actually work.

    It could be they were like “fuck it, here’s all the class ideas we’ll ever do” to get people back and they’ll build on them more in the future (as I’m sure people would ask for)

  16. #35856
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    But what’s the virtue of doing this? Why not smush those “new playstyle” specs into just one new class and save yourself the logistical burden of 3 extra armor sets for every patch until the end of time?
    Most armours are actually already shared across types so their work on individual looks wouldnt increase that much at all.

  17. #35857
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Heartbreak City
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    But what’s the virtue of doing this? Why not smush those “new playstyle” specs into just one new class and save yourself the logistical burden of 3 extra armor sets for every patch until the end of time?
    I didn't even think of that. Tier sets would get so out of hand. You need 4 additional unique looks every tier for 1 class specs that are going to be a very very small chunk of the overall playerbase.

  18. #35858
    i hate this with a burning passion because i dont like acting like i believe that leak for a second

    but microclasses COULD be the base for the next 4 classes
    so instead of adding a new class every other expansion just add a spec to each micro class every expansion until they are complete

  19. #35859
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Why would they sell it in the exact same tiers of preorder as expansions, then?
    Why wouldn't they? I know it's 99.9% chance Dragonflight is the expansion but you all do this thing where you start getting really certain of something for no reason.

  20. #35860
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Heartbreak City
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Dragons View Post
    i hate this with a burning passion because i dont like acting like i believe that leak for a second

    but microclasses COULD be the base for the next 4 classes
    so instead of adding a new class every other expansion just add a spec to each micro class every expansion until they are complete
    Except they abandon things after 1 xpac so quickly, such as allied races. I also doubt they'd create entirely new classes just to get so little mileage from them. Come up with their utility abilities, buffs, generic abilities across all specs, just for them to have one spec that uses them. That's just such an inefficient use of development time lol.

    And there is no way blizz, who is clearly constrained on resources, would do that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I was referring to the mobile game. It was never confirmed the mobile game won't have the "World of" branding or have some form of integration with the MMO.

    I said "slim chance" because I don't want people making huge assumptions in either direction: I'm old enough to remember when the entire Blizzard fandom was sure Overwatch was going to be a WoW property because the Draenei used the word Overwatch at one point.
    Why would a mobile game have a pre-order? It's obviously going to be a f2p p2w model not a p2p model lol.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •