Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Wangming]

Alleria is the coolest Windrunner by far because she remains true to her ideals and roots without ever changing.

Sylvanas flip-flops every novel, Vereesa went from homicidal murderer to crybaby, meanwhile Alleria has always remained true to her ideal of "Family > Country", which explains why she joined the Alliance upon her return to Azeroth.

And I'll tell you one more thing, once they catapult Alleria into the spotlight in 10.0, even those who don't play Void elf will realize that she is one of the most consistent characters in WoW, and that should be appreciated.

She gets a lot of hate from the Blood elf fanboy simply because she told Theron to shove it and remained true to her ideals of choosing family over country government ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

While I agree, it is easy to stay consistent when you spend most of it off screen. Between WC2 and Legion she was nowhere and even afterward her involvement was sporadic.

[huth]

Yeah, I don't think rape should be used as a plot device really ever, but definitely not in WoW. It's a cartoony video game, we aren't playing though a historically-accurate account of some of humanity's atrocities. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.

It's also 12+/Teen rated, so rape is a rather questionable thing to include.

[bagina]

Yeah, I don't think rape should be used as a plot device really ever, but definitely not in WoW. It's a cartoony video game, we aren't playing though a historically-accurate account of some of humanity's atrocities. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.

But elves are literally junkies? Suramar questline is a recent example.

[Soulwind]

At least it gives Chromatus some motivation. Like what are her goals beside being an angry monster? I agree that "The female aspects look pretty hot" is not the best, but still a step above what we had with the Jailer for most of SL.

I think it could be presented in a way more subtle manner. Like Sargeras' obsession with Azeroth, which was kind of creepy if you wanted to read it that way, but could also just be seen as "evil giant fantasy demon wants to destroy the world".

Similarly, Chromatus could be obssesed with taking control of all dragons, owning all the Aspects as pets, and pushing his brood above all others. This would imply heavier stuff, but on a surface level, it'd just be the generic villain speech.

[Vakir]

After Demon Hunters got announced, Teriz deserves a redemption/vengeance arc

I can't give that much positive energy to someone that insisted that it would be "bad for the game" to have Demon Hunters but somehow it would be fine for anything else that fits in their purview and single-mindedly hijacks every conversation.

They'll inevitably move onto the next class they want and prefer and will continue to threadshit.

But elves are literally junkies? Suramar questline is a recent example.

They don't really, OD, though. They do, however, scratch at their arms pretty accurately, it's a bit unnerving as someone who works in the field.

While I agree, it is easy to stay consistent when you spend most of it off screen. Between WC2 and Legion she was nowhere and even afterward her involvement was sporadic.

Don't engaaaaaage.

[Fartlas]

Yeah, I don't think rape should be used as a plot device really ever, but definitely not in WoW. It's a cartoony video game, we aren't playing though a historically-accurate account of some of humanity's atrocities. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.

Clearly you have not read the Suramar story or Alexstarsza's little venture with a certain group of Orcs.

[Raetary]

. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.

Magic addiction says hi.

[Vakir]

Clearly you have not read the Suramar story or Alexstarsza's little venture with a certain group of Orcs.

It happened, but it doesn't mean it works to really see it continue to happen. For example, one of the crimes of Garrosh being read as "Forced Impregnation" very solemnly by the prosecution in War Crimes was almost unintentionally funny despite how dour of a concept it is, because of how utterly incongruous it was with WoW's tone.

It's not even a sensitivity thing, it's just so out of place compared to everything else.

The Suramar stuff was great and is pretty rough regarding drug addiction, but we also don't have scenes of Withered choking on their own vomit mid-sleep or needing magic-Narcan. It would just be silly.

[draugril]

Magic addiction says hi.

There's a difference between allegory and literal portrayal. And between the implication of something and overtly showcasing it.

[Wangming]

I think it could be presented in a way more subtle manner. Like Sargeras' obsession with Azeroth, which was kind of creepy if you wanted to read it that way, but could also just be seen as "evil giant fantasy demon wants to destroy the world".

Similarly, Chromatus could be obssesed with taking control of all dragons, owning all the Aspects as pets, and pushing his brood above all others. This would imply heavier stuff, but on a surface level, it'd just be the generic villain speech.

It could, but if they wanted a subtle villain they wouldn't have gone with a five headed frankenstein's dragon. It's not like WoW can't come up with villains you can relate to. You have the VanCleefs or Godfrey for example.

[Fartlas]

It happened, but it doesn't mean it works to really see it continue to happen. For example, one of the crimes of Garrosh being read as "Forced Impregnation" very solemnly by the prosecution in War Crimes was almost unintentionally funny despite how dour of a concept it is, because of how utterly incongruous it was with WoW's tone.

It's not even a sensitivity thing, it's just so out of place compared to everything else.

The Suramar stuff was great and is pretty rough regarding drug addiction, but we also don't have scenes of Withered choking on their own vomit mid-sleep or needing magic-Narcan. It would just be silly.

I respectfully disagree, saying that something cannot work within confides of WoW is a silly point. When I read what happened to Alexstrasza I felt genuinely upset and angry, which is more than I can say for most stories within WoW that take the generic or 'PG friendly' approach. Now, I am not saying that WoW should turn to GRRM's wet dream of rape or other questionable issues on a regular basis, but it shouldn't shy away from telling more such stories.

Naxxramas as well as Nefarian and his creepy and disturbing experiments are another good example of WoW being able to tell a darker story regardless of how big of a tonal shift it is.

[Raetary]

Anyway, i agree that they're not gonna continue with the dragon rape plot anymore.
However, as we already had those stories before i can totally see them milking Alex's rape story for some womens empowerment plot.

They can expand the chromatic flight by either making Chromatus have a willing regular dragon/twillight dragon underling or make the flight reproduce differently.
Like, stabilize his essence and use it to infuse existing dragons or something.
Basically corrupting them with the power of the *rainbow*.

[Santandame]

I made a post earlier in the thread that there's the potential these are just shared 4th specs. As in, there just happens to be 4, each of different armor class types.

So like Dragon Knight could be a 4th spec for DK, Pally and Warrior for example.

How is that idea any better?

What similarities does a Shaman have with a Tinker?

A Demon Hunter with a Bard?

Thematically your idea makes no sense whatsoever.

[Polybius]

Dark themes in WoW work when they're subtle. I'm not even sure you can compare drug addiction to permanent violation of the mind and body, esp. when the theme of drug addiction is subverted by magic. At least addictions can be helped, while the other is against the person's will followed by a series of victim-blaming and humiliation.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Dark themes in WoW work when they're subtle. I'm not even sure you can compare drug addiction to permanent violation of the mind and body, esp. when the theme of drug addiction is subverted by magic. At least addictions can be helped, while the other is against the person's will followed by a series of victim-blaming and humiliation.

Exactly. They will probably present Alex’s backstory in a subtle way, but not graphically or explicitly dive into it, and they shouldn’t. It is a game people use to escape, and with the high number of sexual assaults survivors there is, forcing such a trope back in the game would be really terrible taste. They’ll probably « suggest it » and remain vague, and that’s enough.

[Yus atath]

So many people believing the Dragflight leak, yikes…. For months it was so obvious that 10.0 would be a dragon xpac. And “Dragonflight” is such an easy to guess title. Anyway the Dragonflight leak person was just lucky with the title guessing.

[Santandame]

Leveling as a healer won’t matter if the class is designed with soloing in mind. A class without a DPS spec to fall back on is something we’ve never had, so if they actually tried it they’d obviously design it with greater solo potential in mind.

Then they would very likely be insanely broken in PvP.

Imagine going up against a healer with all the potential of a DPS?

Ranked PvP will be saturated with Bards and Chronomancers.

[Wangming]

So many people believing the Dragflight leak, yikes…. For months it was so obvious that 10.0 would be a dragon xpac. And “Dragonflight” is such an easy to guess title. Anyway the Dragonflight leak person was just lucky with the title guessing.

Well we would be happy to discuss all the other leaks with this title if there were any. And by the by even if the leak is utter horseshit, something is still done with Dalaran and as boring as he is, Chromatus is a possible villain for a dragon expansion. And a more logical one than Galakrond. I mean what the fuck are we going to do against him? DPS his toes? We already tried the ride a dragon's back fight and it wasn't really popular. There is a reason why, when faced with a similarly sized Bahamut, FFXIV made us fight his subconscious instead. Something a reanimated skeleton might not have.

So yeah, like it or not, some aspects of the leak will be discussed because those parts make sense.

- - - Updated - - -

Then they would very likely be insanely broken in PvP.

Imagine going up against a healer with all the potential of a DPS?

Ranked PvP will be saturated with Bards and Chronomancers.

That isn't an issue in FFXIV. Granted the PvP scene is not that large. The classes work like this:

DPS: Not much health, next to no self heal, but can dish out a lot of damage.
Tank: Can't hit as hard as the DPS but has enough health and damage mitigation to stay alive untill the enemy dies. Unless you are a gunbreaker and can actually outdamage DPS.
Healer: Hits like a wet noodle and just as squishy, but can heal those injuries back. Like the annoying HS deck built to fatigue you out.

That's not broken, that's balanced.

[Vakir]

I respectfully disagree, saying that something cannot work within confides of WoW is a silly point. When I read what happened to Alexstrasza I felt genuinely upset and angry, which is more than I can say for most stories within WoW that take the generic or 'PG friendly' approach. Now, I am not saying that WoW should turn to GRRM's wet dream of rape or other questionable issues on a regular basis, but it shouldn't shy away from telling more such stories.

The other variable to account is quality. Do you trust WoW's writing team to handle these very sensitive topics effectively when they can't even handle the most standard fantasy conversations on things like justice, revenge, atonement, extremism, etc. effectively?

Sylvanas was an interpretable rape allegory, or at the very least violation and trauma, that was wildly popular and resonated with tons of people. She's also spent the last roughly decade sucking eggs. See also Kerrigan, Widowmaker, really just a trope they drop too often.

Dark themes in WoW work when they're subtle. I'm not even sure you can compare drug addiction to permanent violation of the mind and body, esp. when the theme of drug addiction is subverted by magic. At least addictions can be helped, while the other is against the person's will followed by a series of victim-blaming and humiliation.

Trauma including sexual trauma can't be helped...?

In any event, there's degrees, no following pun intended. Sinestra having claw marks and burns from...not being able to handle Deathwing makes sense and has some implications. They don't call an insane amount of attention to it. Having Alex force pregged by the Dragonmaw but also having her instantly forgive them sanctimoniously on the stand like it's the answer to a math problem to demonstrate her moral superiority is awkward and repugnant. (Not saying go on a rape revenge rampage either, that would be equally bad)

There's a difference between someone talking about an IED in a group therapy talk in The Winter Soldier and splicing in the last 10 minutes of Requiem for a Dream into a Marvel film.

[Xaviaton]

I mean what the fuck are we going to do against him? DPS his toes?

I meaaan, we already did that in Dragon Soul so :>