Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Pheraz]

N'zoth is gone, the void elves are the worst thing about recent WoW lore. Time to let it go. Old gods = permanently gone. Okay? Someone needs to give it to you directly finally. I'm sorry, but that's how it is. Also, Alleria is the worst Windrunner sister (and that's a heavy thing to say considering how trash Sylvanas is). At least Sylvanas is relevant.

Let it go, you will feel better. Just let it go.

Weird, I have elsa in my mind when I read your comment.

Let it go, let it go
Can't hold it back anymore
Let it go, let it go
Turn away and slam the door
I don't care what they're going to say
Let the storm rage on
The cold never bothered me anyway

No, Alleria is actually the coolest Windrunner sister, if you like badass, tatooed, classic high elves/wood elves. If you prefer gothic elves with emo moments, Sylvanas is the way to go, obviously.

[draugril]

Really? Did woke people rally against the Handmaiden's tale or something? If the person threatening with or committing the raid is presented as unequivocally evil and the act of rape is not normalized but presented as traumatic, there is nothing wrong with using it as a narrative device.

The point is, it's a pretty lazy narrative device. Especially when it's in a fun, bombastic, and generally light-hearted franchise. I'm not saying that it can't be done tastefully, but is WoW really the place for it? With these writers?

[Soulwind]

The point is, it's a pretty lazy narrative device. Especially when it's in a fun, bombastic, and generally light-hearted franchise. I'm not saying that it can't be done tastefully, but is WoW really the place for it? With these writers?

Warcraft has delved in darker tones from time to time, and because of the contrast, they're even more shocking, like Thaddius.

But yes, I wouldn't trust these writers with anything serious or nuanced, they should either go with cartoony or grimdark, but nothing remotely realistic such as rape.

[Varodoc]

Weird, I have elsa in my mind when I read your comment.

Let it go, let it go
Can't hold it back anymore
Let it go, let it go
Turn away and slam the door
I don't care what they're going to say
Let the storm rage on
The cold never bothered me anyway

No, Alleria is actually the coolest Windrunner sister, if you like badass, tatooed, classic high elves/wood elves. If you prefer gothic elves with emo moments, Sylvanas is the way to go, obviously.

Alleria is the coolest Windrunner by far because she remains true to her ideals and roots without ever changing.

Sylvanas flip-flops every novel, Vereesa went from homicidal murderer to crybaby, meanwhile Alleria has always remained true to her ideal of "Family > Country", which explains why she joined the Alliance upon her return to Azeroth.

And I'll tell you one more thing, once they catapult Alleria into the spotlight in 10.0, even those who don't play Void elf will realize that she is one of the most consistent characters in WoW, and that should be appreciated.

She gets a lot of hate from the Blood elf fanboys simply because she told Theron where to shove it and remained true to her ideals of choosing family over country government ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Wangming]

The point is, it's a pretty lazy narrative device. Especially when it's in a fun, bombastic, and generally light-hearted franchise. I'm not saying that it can't be done tastefully, but is WoW really the place for it? With these writers?

At least it gives Chromatus some motivation. Like what are her goals beside being an angry monster? I agree that "The female aspects look pretty hot" is not the best, but still a step above what we had with the Jailer for most of SL.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Yeah, I don't think rape should be used as a plot device really ever, but definitely not in WoW. It's a cartoony video game, we aren't playing though a historically-accurate account of some of humanity's atrocities. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.

This precisely.

Warcraft has delved in darker tones from time to time, and because of the contrast, they're even more shocking, like Thaddius.

But yes, I wouldn't trust these writers with anything serious or nuanced, they should either go with cartoony or grimdark, but nothing remotely realistic such as rape.

Gosh I had forgotten how horrible Thaddius’ backstory was…

[Wangming]

Alleria is the coolest Windrunner by far because she remains true to her ideals and roots without ever changing.

Sylvanas flip-flops every novel, Vereesa went from homicidal murderer to crybaby, meanwhile Alleria has always remained true to her ideal of "Family > Country", which explains why she joined the Alliance upon her return to Azeroth.

And I'll tell you one more thing, once they catapult Alleria into the spotlight in 10.0, even those who don't play Void elf will realize that she is one of the most consistent characters in WoW, and that should be appreciated.

She gets a lot of hate from the Blood elf fanboy simply because she told Theron to shove it and remained true to her ideals of choosing family over country government ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

While I agree, it is easy to stay consistent when you spend most of it off screen. Between WC2 and Legion she was nowhere and even afterward her involvement was sporadic.

[huth]

Yeah, I don't think rape should be used as a plot device really ever, but definitely not in WoW. It's a cartoony video game, we aren't playing though a historically-accurate account of some of humanity's atrocities. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.

It's also 12+/Teen rated, so rape is a rather questionable thing to include.

[bagina]

Yeah, I don't think rape should be used as a plot device really ever, but definitely not in WoW. It's a cartoony video game, we aren't playing though a historically-accurate account of some of humanity's atrocities. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.

But elves are literally junkies? Suramar questline is a recent example.

[Soulwind]

At least it gives Chromatus some motivation. Like what are her goals beside being an angry monster? I agree that "The female aspects look pretty hot" is not the best, but still a step above what we had with the Jailer for most of SL.

I think it could be presented in a way more subtle manner. Like Sargeras' obsession with Azeroth, which was kind of creepy if you wanted to read it that way, but could also just be seen as "evil giant fantasy demon wants to destroy the world".

Similarly, Chromatus could be obssesed with taking control of all dragons, owning all the Aspects as pets, and pushing his brood above all others. This would imply heavier stuff, but on a surface level, it'd just be the generic villain speech.

[Vakir]

After Demon Hunters got announced, Teriz deserves a redemption/vengeance arc

I can't give that much positive energy to someone that insisted that it would be "bad for the game" to have Demon Hunters but somehow it would be fine for anything else that fits in their purview and single-mindedly hijacks every conversation.

They'll inevitably move onto the next class they want and prefer and will continue to threadshit.

But elves are literally junkies? Suramar questline is a recent example.

They don't really, OD, though. They do, however, scratch at their arms pretty accurately, it's a bit unnerving as someone who works in the field.

While I agree, it is easy to stay consistent when you spend most of it off screen. Between WC2 and Legion she was nowhere and even afterward her involvement was sporadic.

Don't engaaaaaage.

[Fartlas]

Yeah, I don't think rape should be used as a plot device really ever, but definitely not in WoW. It's a cartoony video game, we aren't playing though a historically-accurate account of some of humanity's atrocities. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.

Clearly you have not read the Suramar story or Alexstarsza's little venture with a certain group of Orcs.

[Raetary]

. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.

Magic addiction says hi.

[Vakir]

Clearly you have not read the Suramar story or Alexstarsza's little venture with a certain group of Orcs.

It happened, but it doesn't mean it works to really see it continue to happen. For example, one of the crimes of Garrosh being read as "Forced Impregnation" very solemnly by the prosecution in War Crimes was almost unintentionally funny despite how dour of a concept it is, because of how utterly incongruous it was with WoW's tone.

It's not even a sensitivity thing, it's just so out of place compared to everything else.

The Suramar stuff was great and is pretty rough regarding drug addiction, but we also don't have scenes of Withered choking on their own vomit mid-sleep or needing magic-Narcan. It would just be silly.

[draugril]

Magic addiction says hi.

There's a difference between allegory and literal portrayal. And between the implication of something and overtly showcasing it.

[Wangming]

I think it could be presented in a way more subtle manner. Like Sargeras' obsession with Azeroth, which was kind of creepy if you wanted to read it that way, but could also just be seen as "evil giant fantasy demon wants to destroy the world".

Similarly, Chromatus could be obssesed with taking control of all dragons, owning all the Aspects as pets, and pushing his brood above all others. This would imply heavier stuff, but on a surface level, it'd just be the generic villain speech.

It could, but if they wanted a subtle villain they wouldn't have gone with a five headed frankenstein's dragon. It's not like WoW can't come up with villains you can relate to. You have the VanCleefs or Godfrey for example.

[Fartlas]

It happened, but it doesn't mean it works to really see it continue to happen. For example, one of the crimes of Garrosh being read as "Forced Impregnation" very solemnly by the prosecution in War Crimes was almost unintentionally funny despite how dour of a concept it is, because of how utterly incongruous it was with WoW's tone.

It's not even a sensitivity thing, it's just so out of place compared to everything else.

The Suramar stuff was great and is pretty rough regarding drug addiction, but we also don't have scenes of Withered choking on their own vomit mid-sleep or needing magic-Narcan. It would just be silly.

I respectfully disagree, saying that something cannot work within confides of WoW is a silly point. When I read what happened to Alexstrasza I felt genuinely upset and angry, which is more than I can say for most stories within WoW that take the generic or 'PG friendly' approach. Now, I am not saying that WoW should turn to GRRM's wet dream of rape or other questionable issues on a regular basis, but it shouldn't shy away from telling more such stories.

Naxxramas as well as Nefarian and his creepy and disturbing experiments are another good example of WoW being able to tell a darker story regardless of how big of a tonal shift it is.

[Raetary]

Anyway, i agree that they're not gonna continue with the dragon rape plot anymore.
However, as we already had those stories before i can totally see them milking Alex's rape story for some womens empowerment plot.

They can expand the chromatic flight by either making Chromatus have a willing regular dragon/twillight dragon underling or make the flight reproduce differently.
Like, stabilize his essence and use it to infuse existing dragons or something.
Basically corrupting them with the power of the *rainbow*.

[Santandame]

I made a post earlier in the thread that there's the potential these are just shared 4th specs. As in, there just happens to be 4, each of different armor class types.

So like Dragon Knight could be a 4th spec for DK, Pally and Warrior for example.

How is that idea any better?

What similarities does a Shaman have with a Tinker?

A Demon Hunter with a Bard?

Thematically your idea makes no sense whatsoever.

[Polybius]

Dark themes in WoW work when they're subtle. I'm not even sure you can compare drug addiction to permanent violation of the mind and body, esp. when the theme of drug addiction is subverted by magic. At least addictions can be helped, while the other is against the person's will followed by a series of victim-blaming and humiliation.