1. #36041
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think that the green dragonflight is probably as compromised as the black one was. They have been exposed to the Nightmare for far too long. We saw it with the Nightmare and almost every one of them eventually falling prey to it, even Ysera, some twice. We saw it with the void flower in the cave after we defeated Xavius and then again with the Void invading during the Essence questline in BfA. Plus Merithra was literally standing next to C'thun's corpse for millenia; Arygos was as well and he betrayed everyone (and got killed to power Chromatus). Calen seemed fine but he died quite early (would be cool to bring him back as a void monster and throw him at Alex if the plot allows).
    Not only Ysera, but Cenarius himself as well. As the son of Elune and a Wild God he would be forgiven if he had plot armor against things like this. So bottom line is, the Nightmare is quite potent. I'm still salty it never became an expansion.

  2. #36042
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Not only Ysera, but Cenarius himself as well. As the son of Elune and a Wild God he would be forgiven if he had plot armor against things like this. So bottom line is, the Nightmare is quite potent. I'm still salty it never became an expansion.
    I'm salty they did not just make an expansion between Wrath and Cataclysm to cover the events of Stormrage and the Me'dan comic (but without Me'dan). We could have had the emerald nightmare xpac with a side of Cho'gall trying to rez C'thun. AQ redux, Rift of Aln as obvious raids.

  3. #36043
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Could be as simple as "Oh we can use this power source I found on Dragon Isle to turn us back into full Aspects" "Wait this power source was what was keeping the body of the fifth old god dormant. Hey Xal!"

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    Really? Did woke people rally against the Handmaiden's tale or something? If the person threatening with or committing the raid is presented as unequivocally evil and the act of rape is not normalized but presented as traumatic, there is nothing wrong with using it as a narrative device.
    It’s two different contexts, as in who’s writing the story and on what medium. A dragon rape trope in game would have a high chance to be handled catastrophically, just like the NE genocide trope was

  4. #36044
    Epic! Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasoka View Post
    N'zoth is gone, the void elves are the worst thing about recent WoW lore. Time to let it go. Old gods = permanently gone. Okay? Someone needs to give it to you directly finally. I'm sorry, but that's how it is. Also, Alleria is the worst Windrunner sister (and that's a heavy thing to say considering how trash Sylvanas is). At least Sylvanas is relevant.

    Let it go, you will feel better. Just let it go.
    Weird, I have elsa in my mind when I read your comment.

    Let it go, let it go
    Can't hold it back anymore
    Let it go, let it go
    Turn away and slam the door
    I don't care what they're going to say
    Let the storm rage on
    The cold never bothered me anyway

    No, Alleria is actually the coolest Windrunner sister, if you like badass, tatooed, classic high elves/wood elves. If you prefer gothic elves with emo moments, Sylvanas is the way to go, obviously.
    Zorn | Vynd | Pheraz | Sylwina | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - Plus 20 more...

  5. #36045
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Really? Did woke people rally against the Handmaiden's tale or something? If the person threatening with or committing the raid is presented as unequivocally evil and the act of rape is not normalized but presented as traumatic, there is nothing wrong with using it as a narrative device.
    The point is, it's a pretty lazy narrative device. Especially when it's in a fun, bombastic, and generally light-hearted franchise. I'm not saying that it can't be done tastefully, but is WoW really the place for it? With these writers?

  6. #36046
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    The point is, it's a pretty lazy narrative device. Especially when it's in a fun, bombastic, and generally light-hearted franchise. I'm not saying that it can't be done tastefully, but is WoW really the place for it? With these writers?
    Warcraft has delved in darker tones from time to time, and because of the contrast, they're even more shocking, like Thaddius.

    But yes, I wouldn't trust these writers with anything serious or nuanced, they should either go with cartoony or grimdark, but nothing remotely realistic such as rape.

  7. #36047
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    Weird, I have elsa in my mind when I read your comment.

    Let it go, let it go
    Can't hold it back anymore
    Let it go, let it go
    Turn away and slam the door
    I don't care what they're going to say
    Let the storm rage on
    The cold never bothered me anyway

    No, Alleria is actually the coolest Windrunner sister, if you like badass, tatooed, classic high elves/wood elves. If you prefer gothic elves with emo moments, Sylvanas is the way to go, obviously.
    Alleria is the coolest Windrunner by far because she remains true to her ideals and roots without ever changing.

    Sylvanas flip-flops every novel, Vereesa went from homicidal murderer to crybaby, meanwhile Alleria has always remained true to her ideal of "Family > Country", which explains why she joined the Alliance upon her return to Azeroth.

    And I'll tell you one more thing, once they catapult Alleria into the spotlight in 10.0, even those who don't play Void elf will realize that she is one of the most consistent characters in WoW, and that should be appreciated.

    She gets a lot of hate from the Blood elf fanboys simply because she told Theron where to shove it and remained true to her ideals of choosing family over country government ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2022-04-04 at 11:51 AM.

  8. #36048
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    The point is, it's a pretty lazy narrative device. Especially when it's in a fun, bombastic, and generally light-hearted franchise. I'm not saying that it can't be done tastefully, but is WoW really the place for it? With these writers?
    At least it gives Chromatus some motivation. Like what are her goals beside being an angry monster? I agree that "The female aspects look pretty hot" is not the best, but still a step above what we had with the Jailer for most of SL.

  9. #36049
    Quote Originally Posted by musicallittle1 View Post
    Yeah, I don't think rape should be used as a plot device really ever, but definitely not in WoW. It's a cartoony video game, we aren't playing though a historically-accurate account of some of humanity's atrocities. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.
    This precisely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    Warcraft has delved in darker tones from time to time, and because of the contrast, they're even more shocking, like Thaddius.

    But yes, I wouldn't trust these writers with anything serious or nuanced, they should either go with cartoony or grimdark, but nothing remotely realistic such as rape.
    Gosh I had forgotten how horrible Thaddius’ backstory was…

  10. #36050
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Alleria is the coolest Windrunner by far because she remains true to her ideals and roots without ever changing.

    Sylvanas flip-flops every novel, Vereesa went from homicidal murderer to crybaby, meanwhile Alleria has always remained true to her ideal of "Family > Country", which explains why she joined the Alliance upon her return to Azeroth.

    And I'll tell you one more thing, once they catapult Alleria into the spotlight in 10.0, even those who don't play Void elf will realize that she is one of the most consistent characters in WoW, and that should be appreciated.

    She gets a lot of hate from the Blood elf fanboy simply because she told Theron to shove it and remained true to her ideals of choosing family over country government ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    While I agree, it is easy to stay consistent when you spend most of it off screen. Between WC2 and Legion she was nowhere and even afterward her involvement was sporadic.

  11. #36051
    Quote Originally Posted by musicallittle1 View Post
    Yeah, I don't think rape should be used as a plot device really ever, but definitely not in WoW. It's a cartoony video game, we aren't playing though a historically-accurate account of some of humanity's atrocities. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.
    It's also 12+/Teen rated, so rape is a rather questionable thing to include.

  12. #36052
    Quote Originally Posted by musicallittle1 View Post
    Yeah, I don't think rape should be used as a plot device really ever, but definitely not in WoW. It's a cartoony video game, we aren't playing though a historically-accurate account of some of humanity's atrocities. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.
    But elves are literally junkies? Suramar questline is a recent example.

  13. #36053
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    At least it gives Chromatus some motivation. Like what are her goals beside being an angry monster? I agree that "The female aspects look pretty hot" is not the best, but still a step above what we had with the Jailer for most of SL.
    I think it could be presented in a way more subtle manner. Like Sargeras' obsession with Azeroth, which was kind of creepy if you wanted to read it that way, but could also just be seen as "evil giant fantasy demon wants to destroy the world".

    Similarly, Chromatus could be obssesed with taking control of all dragons, owning all the Aspects as pets, and pushing his brood above all others. This would imply heavier stuff, but on a surface level, it'd just be the generic villain speech.

  14. #36054
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    After Demon Hunters got announced, Teriz deserves a redemption/vengeance arc
    I can't give that much positive energy to someone that insisted that it would be "bad for the game" to have Demon Hunters but somehow it would be fine for anything else that fits in their purview and single-mindedly hijacks every conversation.

    They'll inevitably move onto the next class they want and prefer and will continue to threadshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    But elves are literally junkies? Suramar questline is a recent example.
    They don't really, OD, though. They do, however, scratch at their arms pretty accurately, it's a bit unnerving as someone who works in the field.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    While I agree, it is easy to stay consistent when you spend most of it off screen. Between WC2 and Legion she was nowhere and even afterward her involvement was sporadic.
    Don't engaaaaaage.

  15. #36055
    Quote Originally Posted by musicallittle1 View Post
    Yeah, I don't think rape should be used as a plot device really ever, but definitely not in WoW. It's a cartoony video game, we aren't playing though a historically-accurate account of some of humanity's atrocities. It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.
    Clearly you have not read the Suramar story or Alexstarsza's little venture with a certain group of Orcs.

  16. #36056
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicallittle1 View Post
    . It's a really devastating thing that happens in real life, but the game doesn't use other similar things like drug overdoses in the game. It just doesn't belong there.
    Magic addiction says hi.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  17. #36057
    Quote Originally Posted by Fartlas View Post
    Clearly you have not read the Suramar story or Alexstarsza's little venture with a certain group of Orcs.
    It happened, but it doesn't mean it works to really see it continue to happen. For example, one of the crimes of Garrosh being read as "Forced Impregnation" very solemnly by the prosecution in War Crimes was almost unintentionally funny despite how dour of a concept it is, because of how utterly incongruous it was with WoW's tone.

    It's not even a sensitivity thing, it's just so out of place compared to everything else.

    The Suramar stuff was great and is pretty rough regarding drug addiction, but we also don't have scenes of Withered choking on their own vomit mid-sleep or needing magic-Narcan. It would just be silly.

  18. #36058
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Magic addiction says hi.
    There's a difference between allegory and literal portrayal. And between the implication of something and overtly showcasing it.

  19. #36059
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    I think it could be presented in a way more subtle manner. Like Sargeras' obsession with Azeroth, which was kind of creepy if you wanted to read it that way, but could also just be seen as "evil giant fantasy demon wants to destroy the world".

    Similarly, Chromatus could be obssesed with taking control of all dragons, owning all the Aspects as pets, and pushing his brood above all others. This would imply heavier stuff, but on a surface level, it'd just be the generic villain speech.
    It could, but if they wanted a subtle villain they wouldn't have gone with a five headed frankenstein's dragon. It's not like WoW can't come up with villains you can relate to. You have the VanCleefs or Godfrey for example.

  20. #36060
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    It happened, but it doesn't mean it works to really see it continue to happen. For example, one of the crimes of Garrosh being read as "Forced Impregnation" very solemnly by the prosecution in War Crimes was almost unintentionally funny despite how dour of a concept it is, because of how utterly incongruous it was with WoW's tone.

    It's not even a sensitivity thing, it's just so out of place compared to everything else.

    The Suramar stuff was great and is pretty rough regarding drug addiction, but we also don't have scenes of Withered choking on their own vomit mid-sleep or needing magic-Narcan. It would just be silly.

    I respectfully disagree, saying that something cannot work within confides of WoW is a silly point. When I read what happened to Alexstrasza I felt genuinely upset and angry, which is more than I can say for most stories within WoW that take the generic or 'PG friendly' approach. Now, I am not saying that WoW should turn to GRRM's wet dream of rape or other questionable issues on a regular basis, but it shouldn't shy away from telling more such stories.

    Naxxramas as well as Nefarian and his creepy and disturbing experiments are another good example of WoW being able to tell a darker story regardless of how big of a tonal shift it is.

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