Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Fahrad Wagner]

Dark themes in WoW work when they're subtle. I'm not even sure you can compare drug addiction to permanent violation of the mind and body, esp. when the theme of drug addiction is subverted by magic. At least addictions can be helped, while the other is against the person's will followed by a series of victim-blaming and humiliation.

Exactly. They will probably present Alex’s backstory in a subtle way, but not graphically or explicitly dive into it, and they shouldn’t. It is a game people use to escape, and with the high number of sexual assaults survivors there is, forcing such a trope back in the game would be really terrible taste. They’ll probably « suggest it » and remain vague, and that’s enough.

[Yus atath]

So many people believing the Dragflight leak, yikes…. For months it was so obvious that 10.0 would be a dragon xpac. And “Dragonflight” is such an easy to guess title. Anyway the Dragonflight leak person was just lucky with the title guessing.

[Santandame]

Leveling as a healer won’t matter if the class is designed with soloing in mind. A class without a DPS spec to fall back on is something we’ve never had, so if they actually tried it they’d obviously design it with greater solo potential in mind.

Then they would very likely be insanely broken in PvP.

Imagine going up against a healer with all the potential of a DPS?

Ranked PvP will be saturated with Bards and Chronomancers.

[Wangming]

So many people believing the Dragflight leak, yikes…. For months it was so obvious that 10.0 would be a dragon xpac. And “Dragonflight” is such an easy to guess title. Anyway the Dragonflight leak person was just lucky with the title guessing.

Well we would be happy to discuss all the other leaks with this title if there were any. And by the by even if the leak is utter horseshit, something is still done with Dalaran and as boring as he is, Chromatus is a possible villain for a dragon expansion. And a more logical one than Galakrond. I mean what the fuck are we going to do against him? DPS his toes? We already tried the ride a dragon's back fight and it wasn't really popular. There is a reason why, when faced with a similarly sized Bahamut, FFXIV made us fight his subconscious instead. Something a reanimated skeleton might not have.

So yeah, like it or not, some aspects of the leak will be discussed because those parts make sense.

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Then they would very likely be insanely broken in PvP.

Imagine going up against a healer with all the potential of a DPS?

Ranked PvP will be saturated with Bards and Chronomancers.

That isn't an issue in FFXIV. Granted the PvP scene is not that large. The classes work like this:

DPS: Not much health, next to no self heal, but can dish out a lot of damage.
Tank: Can't hit as hard as the DPS but has enough health and damage mitigation to stay alive untill the enemy dies. Unless you are a gunbreaker and can actually outdamage DPS.
Healer: Hits like a wet noodle and just as squishy, but can heal those injuries back. Like the annoying HS deck built to fatigue you out.

That's not broken, that's balanced.

[Vakir]

I respectfully disagree, saying that something cannot work within confides of WoW is a silly point. When I read what happened to Alexstrasza I felt genuinely upset and angry, which is more than I can say for most stories within WoW that take the generic or 'PG friendly' approach. Now, I am not saying that WoW should turn to GRRM's wet dream of rape or other questionable issues on a regular basis, but it shouldn't shy away from telling more such stories.

The other variable to account is quality. Do you trust WoW's writing team to handle these very sensitive topics effectively when they can't even handle the most standard fantasy conversations on things like justice, revenge, atonement, extremism, etc. effectively?

Sylvanas was an interpretable rape allegory, or at the very least violation and trauma, that was wildly popular and resonated with tons of people. She's also spent the last roughly decade sucking eggs. See also Kerrigan, Widowmaker, really just a trope they drop too often.

Dark themes in WoW work when they're subtle. I'm not even sure you can compare drug addiction to permanent violation of the mind and body, esp. when the theme of drug addiction is subverted by magic. At least addictions can be helped, while the other is against the person's will followed by a series of victim-blaming and humiliation.

Trauma including sexual trauma can't be helped...?

In any event, there's degrees, no following pun intended. Sinestra having claw marks and burns from...not being able to handle Deathwing makes sense and has some implications. They don't call an insane amount of attention to it. Having Alex force pregged by the Dragonmaw but also having her instantly forgive them sanctimoniously on the stand like it's the answer to a math problem to demonstrate her moral superiority is awkward and repugnant. (Not saying go on a rape revenge rampage either, that would be equally bad)

There's a difference between someone talking about an IED in a group therapy talk in The Winter Soldier and splicing in the last 10 minutes of Requiem for a Dream into a Marvel film.

[Xaviaton]

I mean what the fuck are we going to do against him? DPS his toes?

I meaaan, we already did that in Dragon Soul so :>

[Varodoc]

While I agree, it is easy to stay consistent when you spend most of it off screen. Between WC2 and Legion she was nowhere and even afterward her involvement was sporadic.

She could have been reintroduced in a contradictory way like Yrel in BfA, by having her join the Horde for example. I'm glad that Blizzard stayed true to her character and made her rejoin the Alliance with Turalyon instead.

[Alanar]

While I agree, it is easy to stay consistent when you spend most of it off screen. Between WC2 and Legion she was nowhere and even afterward her involvement was sporadic.

Besides swallowing some dark heart and appear out of nowhere with bunch of emo elves we never heard of, she sure is the coolest But atleast she remained so herself >.<. See how stupid this sounds?


I find it really hard to find Alleria interesting.. besides some offscreen stuff, she done nothing in wow besides being a statue. I think everyone is kinda done with the windrunners. The other two next to sylvanas have barely any story and will never reach the peak on how popular sylvanas was couple of years ago. This will never happen again.. not to vereesa and not to alleria.

[Soulwind]

I mean what the fuck are we going to do against him? DPS his toes? We already tried the ride a dragon's back fight and it wasn't really popular.

We could have an entire raid inside him, that's new-ish (N'zoth was more of a metaphysical thing).

[Wangming]

I meaaan, we already did that in Dragon Soul so :>

Yeah and it sucked. That's my point.

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We could have an entire raid inside him, that's new-ish (N'zoth was more of a metaphysical thing).

Give Galakrond Raid a whole new meaning.

[Santandame]

Well we would be happy to discuss all the other leaks with this title if there were any. And by the by even if the leak is utter horseshit, something is still done with Dalaran and as boring as he is, Chromatus is a possible villain for a dragon expansion. And a more logical one than Galakrond. I mean what the fuck are we going to do against him? DPS his toes? We already tried the ride a dragon's back fight and it wasn't really popular. There is a reason why, when faced with a similarly sized Bahamut, FFXIV made us fight his subconscious instead. Something a reanimated skeleton might not have.

So yeah, like it or not, some aspects of the leak will be discussed because those parts make sense.

- - - Updated - - -



That isn't an issue in FFXIV. Granted the PvP scene is not that large. The classes work like this:

DPS: Not much health, next to no self heal, but can dish out a lot of damage.
Tank: Can't hit as hard as the DPS but has enough health and damage mitigation to stay alive untill the enemy dies. Unless you are a gunbreaker and can actually outdamage DPS.
Healer: Hits like a wet noodle and just as squishy, but can heal those injuries back. Like the annoying HS deck built to fatigue you out.

That's not broken, that's balanced.

But that has no bearing on WoW PvP and how these micro classes will effect PvP.

You have a Bard, which is an alleged healing spec. But it is designed around solo levelling due to being a single spec class. So it's going to have a better than average damage kit.

That spec is going to be insanely broken in PvP. Why bring any other healer or any other damage dealer when you can get one or two classes that has both the full healing kit, as well as better than average damage dealing kit?

Every comp will have a Bard and Chronomancer. Possibly even double. Both classes will also be an absolute nightmare to go up against.

This is just one issue for one aspect of the gsme regarding these micro classes. They pose an issue in every aspect of the game. Of which have all been raised and illustrated in this thread over the past 24 hours.

The people for these micro classes aren't thinking of the bigger picture. They're looking from it with the perspective of "wow four new classes" and not in regards to the overall health of the game.

Single spec classes are not the answer. Dual spec classes can work yes, but single spec is a disaster waiting to happen.

[Soulwind]

Give Galakrond Raid a whole new meaning.

If necromancy was the thing with Galakrond, he could be a living necropolis, with cultists running experiments inside of him while he flies around destroying cities.

[Lady Atia]

But that has no bearing on WoW PvP and how these micro classes will effect PvP.

You have a Bard, which is an alleged healing spec. But it is designed around solo levelling due to being a single spec class. So it's going to have a better than average damage kit.

That spec is going to be insanely broken in PvP. Why bring any other healer or any other damage dealer when you can get one or two classes that has both the full healing kit, as well as better than average damage dealing kit?

Every comp will have a Bard and Chronomancer. Possibly even double. Both classes will also be an absolute nightmare to go up against.

This is just one issue for one aspect of the gsme regarding these micro classes. They pose an issue in every aspect of the game. Of which have all been raised and illustrated in this thread over the past 24 hours.

The people for these micro classes aren't thinking of the bigger picture. They're looking from it with the perspective of "wow four new classes" and not in regards to the overall health of the game.

Single spec classes are not the answer. Dual spec classes can work yes, but single spec is a disaster waiting to happen.

You are aware that Blizzard already balances PvP intependend from PvE, right? They can just nerf Bard and Chronomancers dmg output in (instanced) pvp content if that would be an issue.

[Rae888]

But that has no bearing on WoW PvP and how these micro classes will effect PvP.

You have a Bard, which is an alleged healing spec. But it is designed around solo levelling due to being a single spec class. So it's going to have a better than average damage kit.

The current healing specs in the game can level and quest perfectly fine though. Not sure why this would have to be any different. Sure you aren't as fast as a pure dps spec, but it's not unbearable. I do my dailies on my priest in holy spec and it's pretty efficient.

[Revamp Man]

Well we would be happy to discuss all the other leaks with this title if there were any. And by the by even if the leak is utter horseshit, something is still done with Dalaran and as boring as he is, Chromatus is a possible villain for a dragon expansion. And a more logical one than Galakrond. I mean what the fuck are we going to do against him? DPS his toes? We already tried the ride a dragon's back fight and it wasn't really popular. There is a reason why, when faced with a similarly sized Bahamut, FFXIV made us fight his subconscious instead. Something a reanimated skeleton might not have.

So yeah, like it or not, some aspects of the leak will be discussed because those parts make sense.

- - - Updated - - -



That isn't an issue in FFXIV. Granted the PvP scene is not that large. The classes work like this:

DPS: Not much health, next to no self heal, but can dish out a lot of damage.
Tank: Can't hit as hard as the DPS but has enough health and damage mitigation to stay alive untill the enemy dies. Unless you are a gunbreaker and can actually outdamage DPS.
Healer: Hits like a wet noodle and just as squishy, but can heal those injuries back. Like the annoying HS deck built to fatigue you out.

That's not broken, that's balanced.

In the case of galakrond blizzard can have him take a page out of the other dragon’s books and takes a human form

His biggest weakness was his size which becomes irrelevant if he transforms into a human and then he can use magic to spread his corruption

[Khaza-R]

Well we would be happy to discuss all the other leaks with this title if there were any. And by the by even if the leak is utter horseshit, something is still done with Dalaran and as boring as he is, Chromatus is a possible villain for a dragon expansion. And a more logical one than Galakrond. I mean what the fuck are we going to do against him? DPS his toes? We already tried the ride a dragon's back fight and it wasn't really popular. There is a reason why, when faced with a similarly sized Bahamut, FFXIV made us fight his subconscious instead. Something a reanimated skeleton might not have.

So yeah, like it or not, some aspects of the leak will be discussed because those parts make sense.

.

True, but Galakrond makes more sense threading together everything we've seen so far. They're setting the pretext for Scourge in Northrend and reanimation. Lordaeron's relevance will likely be tied to Watcher Tyr who is responsible for Galakrond.

I think if Chromatus was going to be used heavily they would of at least mentioned him in BfA.

[Revamp Man]

By "generating," do you mean... pooping?

No he throws up

[Wangming]

But that has no bearing on WoW PvP and how these micro classes will effect PvP.

You have a Bard, which is an alleged healing spec. But it is designed around solo levelling due to being a single spec class. So it's going to have a better than average damage kit.

That spec is going to be insanely broken in PvP. Why bring any other healer or any other damage dealer when you can get one or two classes that has both the full healing kit, as well as better than average damage dealing kit?

Every comp will have a Bard and Chronomancer. Possibly even double. Both classes will also be an absolute nightmare to go up against.

This is just one issue for one aspect of the gsme regarding these micro classes. They pose an issue in every aspect of the game. Of which have all been raised and illustrated in this thread over the past 24 hours.

The people for these micro classes aren't thinking of the bigger picture. They're looking from it with the perspective of "wow four new classes" and not in regards to the overall health of the game.

Single spec classes are not the answer. Dual spec classes can work yes, but single spec is a disaster waiting to happen.

You aren't listening. They don't have better than average damage dealing kits. Healers suck at damage. They survive in solo play because they can stay alive in fights. despite their lack of health or proper damage.

[Santandame]

There are so many better options for these micro classes as they've been presented.

Just make all four dual spec:

Dragon Knight - Tank/Melee Dps (Battlemagw)
Tinker - Tank/Ranged DPS
Chronomancer - Healer/Ranged DPS
Bard - Healer/Ranged OR Melee DPS

Or alternatively, Tinker can easily be a three spec class. Dragon Knight/Dragonsworn can easily be a four spec class. Bard can be a fourth spec for Rogues or Monks. Chronomancer can be a fourth spec for Mage

I can't see any scenario where single spec classes are a good idea.

[Wangming]

You are aware that Blizzard already balances PvP intependend from PvE, right? They can just nerf Bard and Chronomancers dmg output in (instanced) pvp content if that would be an issue.

Yeah and that's another thing.