Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[ercarp]

Neat concept. I like that you went with the serpentine shape.

I would of swapped Bronze and Blue / Red and Black. Icy mountains the feed into a lush forest and then grasslands it plausible. Black could also be mountainous but volcanic and extend into the wastes that become a desert.

Black and Bronze being next to each other does sound visually appealing. Good call.

Not sure why Acherys is there? Feels like you added it just because it's what Legion did.

Also, as much as I like Dalaran i really don't want another expansion where it's an expansion hub. Maybe have everyone be in Loreth'aran instead.

Dalaran and Acherus were there just to pay homage to the "leak" that's seemingly captivated this thread. Since the leak mentions Order Halls returning, Acherus would have to be there too.

Out of curiosity, why did you opt for this specific map design? My initial thought looking at this is that they would perhaps line up in a similar fashion to how we see the dragonshrines aligned in Dragonblight, but this is a pretty cool design as well.

Basically, I just thought it looked cool and I wanted all the zones to be connected with Uldorus in the middle. That's all.

I don't actually remember/know what you're referring to with the "dragonshrines aligned in Dragonblight' as I haven't been there in ages.

[sandini]

I’m hoping that the zones in next expansion are designed around flying. (Including making the zones much more expansive and not so packed kind of like how ZM is in a sense.)
If they don’t give us direct flying from the start something similar to how Mechagon did flying would be great too.

There are some things they could do, like a Air Drop mechanic in a Zone, maybe tinkered by Gnomes.
Or a launching pad, where you get catapulted in a choosen direction and a glider gets activated for 1 minute.
Even the hooks used in Stormheim were nice.
In think that these in conjuncture with the Flight Master´s whistle should already ease traveling a lot.

[Minoradditions]

Dalaran and Acherus were there just to pay homage to the "leak" that's seemingly captivated this thread. Since the leak mentions Order Halls returning, Acherus would have to be there too.

Acherus and the three Life/Spirit order halls (Druid/Shaman/Monk) are actually completely missing from the leak, which is one interesting point about it.

[Lahis]

Soundwaves are a thing.
Magic is also a thing.

Now combine said magic with said soundwaves.
Voila!

Now imagine if they rolled Tinker and Bard into one class.

[Makabreska]

They're not going to commit to balancing a new class in perpetuity just so it can be "simple & new"

Then they defo wont commit to balancing 12 new specs.

[ercarp]

Edit: Did someone dead-ass ask how a Minstrel/Bard would attack people? They do it with music/sound/magic duh? Basic D&D function.

Bard: And now... For my final ability, I'm gonna play Wonderwall.

Mob: Please no! Anything but that!

[Santandame]

I'd say not all classes, but all armor types.

Dragon Knight for Plate
Tinker for Mail
Minstrel for Leather
Chronomancer for Cloth

It could easily work this way. With Mage / Warlock / Priest you can unlock Chronomancer. With Shaman and Hunter you unlock Tinker etc.

Dragon Knight I'll give you for the three plate classes. I can easily see a situation where one of those classes swears fealty to a Dragonflight and their already established abilities and powers sort of "ascend" and coalesce into new dragon themed abilities.

But what could ever possibly link a Shaman to a Tinker? A nomadic, spiritual disciple of the earth and elements having links to the complete opposite of everything it represents, that being a futuristic, technological scientist? It literally makes no sense. Even the WoW iteration of a Hunter is a push at linking to a Tinker.

Rogue and Monk as a Minstrel/Bard? Absolutely, both fit extremely well. A Druid? A stretch but it could work? Demon Hunter - absolutely not.

Chronomancer for Mage, fits like a glove. Warlock not as much but it's passable. Priest makes very little sense.

[Ersula]

You’d have to do exactly the same thing with 4th specs x12, while also considering how the existing base abilities intersect with them.

Besides that, 4th specs for every existing class is never a clean idea and half of them always feel remarkably forced, or thought up by people without any insight into how it would actually function.

Making 4 specs that are self-contained and only balanced around themselves without base abilities or additional specs should be quite a bit simpler than that, and individual themes (Dragons, Tinkers, Bards, Time) are simple to narrow down.

Here are the main theories of where they go in 10.0, other than a conventional new class:

Option 1.) New Specs for all classes
The big appeal for the Devs is there's no pressure to add them all at the same time. The existing classes are already complete so they would still feel done even if they have to wait several years for a new spec.

Option 2.) A set of Elective specs
Like covenants, but fun! It's a selection of class neutral specs you add onto your classes. You'd gain a few general skills, but for the most part your rotation is spec specific. Suppose Tinker is a tank spec: A priest tinker's tank stats & abilities come from its spec & unique mech armaments so it's free to continue using cloth armor.

Option 3.) Microclasses
Dumb. Bad. Final Fantasy has a lot of cool ideas but there are so many jobs many of them become totally irrelevant for huge periods of time.

[Kiivar86]

Soundwaves are a thing.
Magic is also a thing.

Now combine said magic with said soundwaves.
Voila!

Reminds me, I did notice how Dausegne uses a lot of sound-based terms while attacking.

Destructive Vibrato, Fragmenting Note, Dissonant chord, etc.

[ercarp]

Acherus and the three Life/Spirit order halls (Druid/Shaman/Monk) are actually completely missing from the leak, which is one interesting point about it.

To be fair, we can teleport to all of those. Even Acherus. Not that I really buy into the leak, but I don't think them not being mentioned means much.

[huth]

Soundwaves are a thing.
Magic is also a thing.

Now combine said magic with said soundwaves.
Voila!

Let's not forget that sufficiently loud sound will cause physical damage.

[ercarp]

Reminds me, I did notice how Dausegne uses a lot of sound-based terms while attacking.

Destructive Vibrato, Fragmenting Note, Dissonant chord, etc.

The three big mobs at the end of Spires of Ascension do this as well.

[Makabreska]

Let's not forget that sufficiently loud sound will cause physical damage.

As it already does. We had mobs and wars doing dmg and plethora of effects with shouts since Vanilla. Murmur in Shadow Labs was a creature that attacked with sound waves. People who say bards have no tools don't only lack imagination. They lack game knowledge.

[huth]

The three big mobs at the end of Spires of Ascension do this as well.

Based on what we know of the First Ones, sound seems to play a very major role in the formation of the world.

[Ersula]

Then they defo wont commit to balancing 12 new specs.

Honestly balancing a spec is a lot easier than balancing a class. So much so that the devs have already expressed this. Just crank that damage % up, a function they added in legion specifically for this reason.

Now imagine if they rolled Tinker and Bard into one class.

I did propose that a while back. 5e Bard doesn't necessarily have to be an expert in music: It's basically someone who's expertise in something mundane is lifted to supernatural levels: The College of Creation subclass for bard is typically characterized just like a Tinker.

[ercarp]

This is probably what it would be like to have a bard in your group.

[draugril]

As it already does. We had mobs and wars doing dmg and plethora of effects with shouts since Vanilla. Murmur in Shadow Labs was a creature that attacked with sound waves. People who say bards have no tools don't only lack imagination. They lack game knowledge.

My chief issue is that Bard is associated as heavily with the Support role as Priest is with the Healer role. You can bastardize the class and make it something else, but you lose the core gameplay identity of the class in the process. As WoW does not have a support role, I don't want to see the Bard class contorted into a mockery of what it could be.

[Sondrelk]

There are some things they could do, like a Air Drop mechanic in a Zone, maybe tinkered by Gnomes.
Or a launching pad, where you get catapulted in a choosen direction and a glider gets activated for 1 minute.
Even the hooks used in Stormheim were nice.
In think that these in conjuncture with the Flight Master´s whistle should already ease traveling a lot.

What I would love to see is a zone where a big mechanic is updrafts and similar.
Treasures could be hidden behind more intricate puzzles including jumps, parkour, and good use of updrafts to get higher than normal, letting you use a glider equivalent to get wherever you want.

And while it probably wouldn't happen I would love to see a version of flying where you need to continously try to gain Nair by hitting air currents or updrafts to prevent stalling, similar to how Minecraft dies flying with Elytra.
Then design zones so that skilled players can use these mechanics to get almost anywhere in a zone quickly if they find the Flight Master too restrictive.
Done well it could even finally take the place of the version of flying we currently have.

[Makabreska]

My chief issue is that Bard is associated as heavily with the Support role as Priest is with the Healer role. You can bastardize the class and make it something else, but you lose the core gameplay identity of the class in the process. As WoW does not have a support role, I don't want to see the Bard class contorted into a mockery of what it could be.

Bards are not established really, therefore they do not have core role in WoW. Blizz can make them into w/e with their songs and weapon usage. Dmg and support spells. Pals got crapton of support, but can still smite shit.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Avatar of Vengeance, maybe. Special Blink double jump. And maybe come up with like a Penance Stare thing like Ghost Rider has? (Though without any paralyzing or the like)

It all seems superfluous. Again, why not just use Rogues? Wardens as Demon Hunters is impossible for me to buy simply because it contradicts everything we know about them. Fan of Knives, their most characteristic ability, is a Rogue ability. I really simply cannot see any reason to make Demon Hunters into Wardens, much less to simultaneously extend Wardens into the highly-distinct concept of Spellbreakers while they're at it.