Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[ClassicPeon]

People who avoid PuG content would probably rather quit the game than be forced to do PuG content.

I disagree. But those people should be incentivized to find a guild then.

That is literally the point of an mmo.

Otherwise just play modded skyrim or candy crush or whatever mindless equevelant there is of the current solo content.

[Local Ardenweald Faerie]

I disagree. But those people should be incentivized to find a guild then.

That is literally the point of an mmo.

Otherwise just play modded skyrim or candy crush or whatever mindless equevelant there is of the current solo content.

It's funny, given that FFXIV, the MMO with the most subscribers (or damn well close to it) focuses primarily on story and single player content while ALSO having a very good and healthy selection of group content.

You can definitely have both in a MMO. Having a MMO focus almost entirely on group content is a thing of the past.

[ClassicPeon]

It's funny, given that FFXIV, the MMO with the most subscribers (or damn well close to it) focuses primarily on story and single player content while ALSO having a very good and healthy selection of group content.

You can definitely have both in a MMO. Having a MMO focus almost entirely on group content is a thing of the past.

FF is a single player RPG with added mmo elements. And the only reason it has the most subs is because wow is currently in the worst slump its ever been in.

I hope people arent actually trying to convince themselves that FF is baseline a better game.

I dont want to bash on it, its fine for what it is.

But it doesnt offer what wow does when its at its best.

[Nymrohd]

FF is a single player RPG with added mmo elements. And the only reason it has the most subs is because wow is currently in the worst slump its ever been in.

I hope people arent actually trying to convince themselves that FF is baseline a better game.

I dont want to bash on it, its fine for what it is.

But it doesnt offer what wow does when its at its best.

Or the market has changed enough that the content FF offers matches people's needs better than what WoW has. M+ never went away during Shadowlands. The raids were not at all bad either. So much of the playerbase that left probably was not focused on instanced group content. They left because there was no solo world content (or any other form of solo content for that matter) and went to a game that offers such content aplenty.

[Dragons Are Bad Mkay]

FF is a single player RPG with added mmo elements. And the only reason it has the most subs is because wow is currently in the worst slump its ever been in.

I hope people arent actually trying to convince themselves that FF is baseline a better game.

I dont want to bash on it, its fine for what it is.

But it doesnt offer what wow does when its at its best.

Saying XIV has more subs is wishful thinking at this point. That was true for the latter half of 2021 but then there was a massive drop off after Endwalker launched.
https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...%2Fm%2F0jt2y_q

[Local Ardenweald Faerie]

Or the market has changed enough that the content FF offers matches people's needs better than what WoW has. M+ never went away during Shadowlands. The raids were not at all bad either. So much of the playerbase that left probably was not focused on instanced group content. They left because there was no solo world content (or any other form of solo content for that matter) and went to a game that offers such content aplenty.

There's also other factors to consider, adding onto the solo content aspect. (don't worry, I'm agreeing with you)

A solid story, for one. No borrowed power is another factor. Quality of life WoW doesn't have yet.

Sure, saying FFXIV having the most subs due to WoW being in a slump right now is true.

But there's a reason it was second place for YEARS beforehand.

[Revamp Man]

The Sylvanas novel was much more likely pushed back due to the paper shortage that occurred earlier this year due to Covid cutting supplies.

In that case the patch would have launched around the original date of the novel then instead of months after because the patch could launch without the book but the book can’t launch without the patch being available because as we see it is connected to the story of the patch and would have spoiled it

[Wangming]

You are the perfect example of someone who didnt learn obviously. You are actually an example of why the game needs more incentive for group content and much less for solo content

I honestly hope you are just LARP-ing and not really this dense. If chat is so toxic people flee to instanced areas then maybe just maybe, not adding solo content won't save group content. People will just flee even further. To other games. They either need to make group and/or open world content so good that people will swarm it toxic chat be damned. Or somehow unfuck the community. I understand that a cesspool that has been fostered by over 15 years of designing the game around faction conflict and othering can't change easily. But even with a nat 1 on perception check you can see how this is hurting the game.

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Saying XIV has more subs is wishful thinking at this point. That was true for the latter half of 2021 but then there was a massive drop off after Endwalker launched.

You do know that Google Trends doesn't actually measure sub numbers, right? And sure, there was a drop like a month or two after Endwalker, but all we saw from that ingame was that ques to get in disappeared or at the very least stayed in double digits. There was a perfectly healthy number of people online, at least on the EU servers.

[Revamp Man]

Here's my hot take.

Whatever happens with 10.0, my biggest fear is they are going to avoid borrowed power completely. I think that Zereth Mortis is a prime example of what happens when a zone is mostly bereft of ways to increase player power. There certainly is activity, but it's pretty stunted. It's not rare at all for me to sit waiting around for people on a rare depending on time of day.

I would like to get new systems that stick around in 10.0 beyond legendary and something akin to covenant powers, but think there needs to be something for "the grind"

I personally love ZM and the way gear is set to work soon

Next week we gain the ability to craft tier and “reforge” some gear

A player that avoids group content still has the ability to get tier AND they will always have the power to gain more base gear due to cypher gear. The only slot you can’t get is a weapon

[Dragons Are Bad Mkay]

I honestly hope you are just LARP-ing and not really this dense. If chat is so toxic people flee to instanced areas then maybe just maybe, not adding solo content won't save group content. People will just flee even further. To other games. They either need to make group and/or open world content so good that people will swarm it toxic chat be damned. Or somehow unfuck the community. I understand that a cesspool that has been fostered by over 15 years of designing the game around faction conflict and othering can't change easily. But even with a nat 1 on perception check you can see how this is hurting the game.

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You do know that Google Trends doesn't actually measure sub numbers, right? And sure, there was a drop like a month or two after Endwalker, but all we saw from that ingame was that ques to get in disappeared or at the very least stayed in double digits. There was a perfectly healthy number of people online, at least on the EU servers.

You realize it's a bad sign when people don't discuss your game online, right?

[Santandame]

Has nothing to do if they fit thematically - it's just the way how the unlocks could work for those micro classes. They are not sub-classes to the existing ones, but new entries in the respective armor categories.

But why would those unlocks be needed?

Just have the micro classes be available at the character select screen.

[Lady Atia]

Or the market has changed enough that the content FF offers matches people's needs better than what WoW has. M+ never went away during Shadowlands. The raids were not at all bad either. So much of the playerbase that left probably was not focused on instanced group content. They left because there was no solo world content (or any other form of solo content for that matter) and went to a game that offers such content aplenty.

This. They really need to add atleast Housing to 10.0 if they want people back.

[LemonDemonGirl]

When it comes to housing I think the best example to copy would be ESO actually. There is a wide variety of houses in all racial styles (plus other styles beyond them) and in many sizes, from rooms at an inn and small houses with a garden to cathedrals and keep, ancient ruins or extradimensional manors. Wide array of furnishings available in so many ways; many come from crafting and their plans can be acquired from all sorts of sources, others are added in vendors the world over, sometimes locked behind local achievements, there is a vendor with a rotating selection of luxury items, unique items acquired in instanced content and ofc busts and trophies for dungeon and raid bosses. Beyond that you can ofc place your pets and mounts but also can invite NPCs over; some of them are just there to clean and cook, other are famous NPCs paying you a visit (having unique dialogue that changes depending on which quests you've done) and still others can offer services (and those cost an arm and a leg). All housing is instanced but at the same time all housing also exists on the map; while you can just port to your house you can also literally walk in it from the front door. You can give permissions to specific people to visit you at any time. Guild masters often buy one of the largest houses as a guild house and you can then place profession stations so people can do their crafting there and even get some services. They add about ten new houses every year (two per patch which are quarterly plus about a couple more for specific events).

I honestly would copy most of it as is. With the token they can just have everything cost gold (will be the best gold sink the game ever has had); they don't really need to add any of this to the shop. I would perhaps have guild houses be a bit more unique.

What this needs first and foremost is a robust UI, especially when it comes to placing items. Blizzard probably would not give you the insane level of control other games do (e.g. I don't think they will only let you place items upright and always exactly on a flat surface, never sunk into a wall or floor).

YES! They should take inspiration from ESO's system.

Plus, there's soo many objects that they reuse for decorations, it'd be easy to design furniture.

Just... give me a cute little troll house in Nazmir and I'll be happy af

[Hitei]

This. They really need to add atleast Housing to 10.0 if they want people back.

It's really not that attractive a feature outside of the handful of people on these forums who are absolute obsessed with it.

You'd get more people back adding fan favorite races or a new class than housing.

[Nymrohd]

The only slot you can’t get is a weapon

The 246 weapons from the Dune Dominance rares are pretty decent for a casual player tbh. You can also get a decent 246 trinket from the Dormant locus (and the trinkets from treasures/quests often drop at 242). And that's not counting the PvP trinkets for people who play with War Mode.

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It's really not that attractive a feature outside of the handful of people on these forums who are absolute obsessed with it.

You'd get more people back adding fan favorite races or a new class than housing.

Blizzard would get tons of cash through token sales if we got housing. Housing is a feature to milk whales for all their worth.

[Lady Atia]

It's really not that attractive a feature outside of the handful of people on these forums who are absolute obsessed with it.

You'd get more people back adding fan favorite races or a new class than housing.

I don't think so, games like Animal Crossing are successful for a reason.

[Skildar]

LOTRO IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEANT

I've been playing that recently and I LOVE it. Housing is almost exactly like FFXIV's which I love, but also the neighborhoods are infinite! Hook system sucks but eh, product of it's time.

If we can get neighborhoods in/near the major cities plus some hot spots, I would cry.

WTB Kun-lai housing

neighbourhood are a very bad implementation for housing. You don't want to be secluded to an outside the world location, you want your housing to be located close to your favourite area

[Sondrelk]

The 246 weapons from the Dune Dominance rares are pretty decent for a casual player tbh. You can also get a decent 246 trinket from the Dormant locus (and the trinkets from treasures/quests often drop at 242). And that's not counting the PvP trinkets for people who play with War Mode.

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Blizzard would get tons of cash through token sales if we got housing. Housing is a feature to milk whales for all their worth.

They would also get tons of money from whales if they added P2W featureas into it, that doesnt mean it's a good idea.

[Wangming]

You realize it's a bad sign when people don't discuss your game online, right?

They do. Literally in the game. And reddit, and discord and so on. I'm not saying Google trends isn't and indicator mind you. But you shouldn't take it as the gospel. There might not be a correlation as direct as you think.

Also trending on google isn't necessarily a good sign. Just think of Blizzard and last year.

[Hitei]

I don't think so, games like Animal Crossing are successful for a reason.

This is a dumb comparison. You might as well pretend the Sims being popular is somehow a marker of the attractiveness of housing in an MMO. Animal Crossing is a completely different genre of game, with completely different gameplay, played by a very dissimilar audience.

You know what makes Animal Crossing look like a complete joke? The success of gacha games. That doesn't mean adding mission table followers with cute splash art you can roll for in loot crates is an attractive feature that's sure to bring in tons of players.