Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I don't exactly know if we're allowed to mention the name of a private server on here, but there's one that specifically lets you build your own places. You can also visit other places that people have made if they're public. There's a huge RP community there, but if you just want to build, you can focus on that.

I've never liked the idea of actual private servers since they strike me as a form of piracy. I was more thinking just a personalized private server which I've seen some content creators and conceptual types tend to have on hand.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Yeah. Simply plopping Dalaran in the crater wouldn't work. You'd need to expand the surroundings, add roads and paths, a gate, outskirts...

My image was mostly just to prove that if it were to happen, it wouldn't require a huge chunk of real estate.

Well that'll never happen.

Most likely what they'd do is just plop it in, blow up that unused bit of mountain that's causing clipping issues, and maybe pare back some of the tress on the back side of Ambermill or w/e that place the mages have in Silverpine is called.

Then throw in a road that connects it down to the old Hillsbrad Farms (and maybe blow up the Sludge Fens that it became) and then be like "job's done."

[manypillars]

You don't need to add a ton of utility to it for everyone to care; in ESO many players have houses simply so they can practice their rotations in peace (the game completely depends on muscle memory given how twitch gameplay it is) and get some additional storage.

I don't really have any interest in housing, but without any functionality/utility other than private training dummies and crafting stations there would still probably be a ton of interest from people from all walks of content. They'd only make it a hated feature if it became mandatory. And if they start small and modest but design for easy expansion it might not be a huge drain on development resources to introduce it even if it flopped completely. This is a big thing in other MMOs, I don't think WoW players are uniquely uninterested.

[Graden]

Mate, I've got long hair too, and I would shave my head for a playable, updated Gilneas with a world quest system in it. Never loved a zone's vibe more, and never been sadder to see a zone so quickly fade into irrelevancy. A revamped Lordaeron/Gilneas/North-Eastern Kingdoms might be my #1 most desired expansion theme.

I feel your pain brother, I really do.

It's a deal then. We're gonna sacrifice our precious, long hair if needed. Everything for a fully revamped and playable Gilneas.

[SniperCT]

Admittedly, that would be a little different, although I'm far from of the belief that player housing is a bad idea—I do think that those things are a little more visible and mobile, whereas player housing is generally individual and isolated. I could see that working if others are allowed in your houses, though, either as guild halls or individual homes.

If it's like other games with housing there'll develop a sizable community. Plenty of people roam around the houses in FF14 (and many players set them up as 'shops' and social hubs. My wife's first floor is basically a bakery.

I remember back in vanilla I was in a guild that treated one of the empty taverns in the park district as their tavern. Had weekly events and everything.

I kind of miss that general idea of empty spaces that players can make their own. It really feels like 'everything must have a purpose' now and it kind of sucks.

[Grimbold21]

No, heroics being challenging was a huge problem. It was the dev team looking at the average player and saying "fuck you, we don't actually care what you want." And let me tell you, being told that is the absolute best way to break a MMO addiction.

The average player was doing fine in vanilla and TBC. Wrath, though, single handedly ruined - yes ruined - players' expectations of what challenging 5 men was and ought to be.

Any self respecting player that disagreed with that assessment at the time only did so because the content was so mind numbingly easy that they just wanted to get out of there fast.

However, you go ahead and try to rectify something that was obviously problematic and you shoot yourself in the foot, because now you've given everyone a nice sizeable taste of how... convenient the gogogogogo "system" was and now no one wants anything but that.

Much like with flying. "Hey, here's flying at max lvl. Just use some gold and fly away". Years later, "yea, we'll still have flying in the game, but you'll go through different, long stages to get it".

There you go, a split playerbase.

[draugril]

If it's like other games with housing there'll develop a sizable community. Plenty of people roam around the houses in FF14 (and many players set them up as 'shops' and social hubs. My wife's first floor is basically a bakery.

I remember back in vanilla I was in a guild that treated one of the empty taverns in the park district as their tavern. Had weekly events and everything.

I kind of miss that general idea of empty spaces that players can make their own. It really feels like 'everything must have a purpose' now and it kind of sucks.

Yep. We had empty islands we'd fly over to around Nagrand and later Dalaran.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

If it's like other games with housing there'll develop a sizable community. Plenty of people roam around the houses in FF14 (and many players set them up as 'shops' and social hubs. My wife's first floor is basically a bakery.

I remember back in vanilla I was in a guild that treated one of the empty taverns in the park district as their tavern. Had weekly events and everything.

I kind of miss that general idea of empty spaces that players can make their own. It really feels like 'everything must have a purpose' now and it kind of sucks.

That would be an excellent return to community, I say. Would be a boon to my fellow roleplayers.

[Jokubas]

Housing has been one of the most requested features since vanilla was in beta.

Kind of feels like a hail mary, tbh. A break glass in case of emergency type feature, sort of how like most players view Legion's existence after WoD.

I would welcome it for sure, though I might complain if its implemented poorly.

I absolutely wanted housing back then. I came from Ultima Online and it was just part of an MMO to me.

Nowadays... I still think it's a good idea, but my feelings on it have gotten a lot more complicated.

I used to hate any instanced housing system. To me the whole point of a house in an MMO was to feel like you were living in the world. Obviously, as MMOs got mainstream, that stopped being feasible just on a practical level, but the culmination for me no longer wishing for that was Shroud of the Avatar. That game tried to compromise a bit, where the game world was not explored freely, but on a map. In this way, players could make villages, that would appear on that map. This allowed for there to be both a way to instance the housing into those villages, but put them on the map like any other location so they felt equally like a part of the open world.

I liked that idea. The problem, for me, was that every one of these villages I visited were min-maxed for the sake of showcasing the player vendors. When every village in your medieval fantasy game looks like a shopping mall from Second Life, I didn't feel like I was playing a game anymore.

Of course, part of that also relates to how much control you have over the housing, which can be another complex topic. Personally, I would like something in-between. Too little control over the house or the decorations and it all sort of feels pointless (especially when it's instanced), too much and I'm never going to feel like I can actually make anything with it unless I hire someone to help me.

I think it could really breathe new life into World of Warcraft though. In the past, Blizzard has experimented with things like the Music Rolls or Battle Pets in old dungeons or zones. Player housing would be a way to do that permanently and perpetually. I mean, who is going to go back and get a Music Roll for their one-expansion-only Garrison? Music Rolls for player housing, however, is something that would be permanently meaningful content. There are a million things you could add this way, from little doodads, to Music Rolls, to mounted heads of old bosses to put on your wall, the possibilities are endless.

It absolutely needs to be personal though. Guild Halls always sound like a good idea, but I've never seen them implemented in a way that doesn't just create awkward have and have-not systems that arbitrarily punish different kinds of players. One of the most common ways this happens is by not having any of the Guild Hall stuff scale. In other words, the big guilds have no problem maxing everything out instantly, but a smaller guild of close friends can basically never actually do anything with their Guild Hall, if they can ever afford to build/buy one to begin with.

[SniperCT]

I absolutely wanted housing back then. I came from Ultima Online and it was just part of an MMO to me.

Nowadays... I still think it's a good idea, but my feelings on it have gotten a lot more complicated.

I used to hate any instanced housing system. To me the whole point of a house in an MMO was to feel like you were living in the world. Obviously, as MMOs got mainstream, that stopped being feasible just on a practical level, but the culmination for me no longer wishing for that was Shroud of the Avatar. That game tried to compromise a bit, where the game world was not explored freely, but on a map. In this way, players could make villages, that would appear on that map. This allowed for there to be both a way to instance the housing into those villages, but put them on the map like any other location so they felt equally like a part of the open world.

I liked that idea. The problem, for me, was that every one of these villages I visited were min-maxed for the sake of showcasing the player vendors. When every village in your medieval fantasy game looks like a shopping mall from Second Life, I didn't feel like I was playing a game anymore.

Of course, part of that also relates to how much control you have over the housing, which can be another complex topic. Personally, I would like something in-between. Too little control over the house or the decorations and it all sort of feels pointless (especially when it's instanced), too much and I'm never going to feel like I can actually make anything with it unless I hire someone to help me.

I think it could really breathe new life into World of Warcraft though. In the past, Blizzard has experimented with things like the Music Rolls or Battle Pets in old dungeons or zones. Player housing would be a way to do that permanently and perpetually. I mean, who is going to go back and get a Music Roll for their one-expansion-only Garrison? Music Rolls for player housing, however, is something that would be permanently meaningful content. There are a million things you could add this way, from little doodads, to Music Rolls, to mounted heads of old bosses to put on your wall, the possibilities are endless.

It absolutely needs to be personal though. Guild Halls always sound like a good idea, but I've never seen them implemented in a way that doesn't just create awkward have and have-not systems that arbitrarily punish different kinds of players. One of the most common ways this happens is by not having any of the Guild Hall stuff scale. In other words, the big guilds have no problem maxing everything out instantly, but a smaller guild of close friends can basically never actually do anything with their Guild Hall, if they can ever afford to build/buy one to begin with.

I farm up music rolls for my apartment in my guild's house in FF14! It's a lot of fun, and trust me when I say it's a hugely popular thing to farm for, alongside appearances and pets. (And a guild hall in that game is the same price/plot of land as a large house, so is generally reachable eventually by most guilds.) (just address the difficulty in getting a house, and it would be perfect imo)

And in lotro I was able to afford a guild house for a tiny 3-person guild relatively easily. So it can be done. And in both games most players generally focus on making things look cool rather than be efficient or min-maxing (I remember the towns in SWG, very heavily focused around vendors)

In Lotro you can put crafting benches and the like into houses. I still see a lot of activity at the crafting areas in the cities though, so I don't think it really affected that kind of thing too much. Maybe a solution in WoW would be an area inside a neighborhood for crafting. Phase it in a way where it's shared with all the neighborhoods so players can still be social and see each other.

Either that or simply don't allow it.

ETA: Having an instanced apartment in a guild hall for players would in fact be something they absolutely need to lift. Give a player a room, much cheaper than a house, and inside their guild house.

[Sharby]

I'm waiting for something to happen with Gilneas for almost 12 years. If it does, I'm gonna shave my head. And I love my long hair.

But it ain't gonna happen, so I'm safe.....right?

Gilneas full update and revamp..



..but it's just a dungeon with Greymane as the final boss.

[Amstrup]

1 man dungeons that let me farm gear would be enough casual concept for me.
A mix between torghast and mage tower.

[Shadochi]

1 man dungeons that let me farm gear would be enough casual concept for me.
A mix between torghast and mage tower.

You mean extend the exile reach dungeon to other dungeons?

[SniperCT]

Gilneas full update and revamp..



..but it's just a dungeon with Greymane as the final boss.

Alliance main for life and I would be first in line. I hate that character with the passion of a thousand dying stars.

[Amstrup]

You mean extend the exile reach dungeon to other dungeons?

Could be, but with higher difficulty ofc.

[Jokubas]

I guess I'm not saying that Guild Halls shouldn't exist at all, but that player housing that any player can have and enjoy without having to answer to anyone else is a must.

For the most part I think Lord of the Rings Online's neighborhoods is the way to go, with the decoration system of another game. I wouldn't mind something like, each Neighborhood has a huge castle/mansion slot that can only be purchased by a guild, and people can have apartments there, but everyone being able to have a house independently from that is a must. Not just because it makes the feature more relevant for more people more easily, but because that makes anything that cascades from that system (like earning decorations) meaningful for everyone as well.

Speaking of Lord of the Rings Online, they had neighborhoods for... what? Each starting area, and they've added a couple since?

One of the things I've been bracing myself for with a World of Warcraft housing system since forever, is that it'll launch with just "Alliance" (Stormwind) and "Horde" (Orgrimmar) variants, and maybe get a weird, expansion-specific option every once and awhile. Of course, the proliferation of Allied Races has made something like "a neighborhood type for each race" a bit crazy, but it would be nice to at least launch with options themed for the original launch races at minimum, just to give some real variety.

[SniperCT]

I guess I'm not saying that Guild Halls shouldn't exist at all, but that player housing that any player can have and enjoy without having to answer to anyone else is a must.

For the most part I think Lord of the Rings Online's neighborhoods is the way to go, with the decoration system of another game. I wouldn't mind something like, each Neighborhood has a huge castle/mansion slot that can only be purchased by a guild, and people can have apartments there, but everyone being able to have a house independently from that is a must. Not just because it makes the feature more relevant for more people more easily, but because that makes anything that cascades from that system (like earning decorations) meaningful for everyone as well.

Speaking of Lord of the Rings Online, they had neighborhoods for... what? Each starting area, and they've added a couple since?

One of the things I've been bracing myself for with a World of Warcraft housing system since forever, is that it'll launch with just "Alliance" (Stormwind) and "Horde" (Orgrimmar) variants, and maybe get a weird, expansion-specific option every once and awhile. Of course, the proliferation of Allied Races has made something like "a neighborhood type for each race" a bit crazy, but it would be nice to at least launch with options themed for the original launch races at minimum, just to give some real variety.

Lotro started with elf/hobbit/human/dwarf. They added gondorian housing near Dol Amroth, Rohan housing and most recently lonely mountain housing(premium dwarf housing at any rate, I forget exactly where). Those last 3 are real money only though. I have a lifetime sub so I basically got a free house in rohan right now lol

I think most players would be disappointed if there was only human and orc to start with. At the very least the launch races/TBC races. They can consider adding for allied races over time. (I mean KT and Zandalari kind of already have great places to drop a neighborhood in their capital cities I feel, and Worgen and Pandarans both have areas they could put housing I think. It's just the art effort)

Maybe human/orc + the most popular races on each faction that aren't humans or orcs. So Belves and probably Nelves? Then over patches and in later expansions they could add more. Though I wouldn't mind a house in Kul Tiras.

Some neutral locations that would be nice could include Dalaran, a rebuilt Shattrath, or somewhere in the valley of the four winds. Dalaran writes itself, a place thats bigger on the inside than the outside!

I'd love to see them bring back farming with this. FF14 has gardens you can tend for your house, for example.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

1 man dungeons that let me farm gear would be enough casual concept for me.
A mix between torghast and mage tower.

Eff it, just implement the Trust System from the FF MMOs.

[Jokubas]

I think most players would be disappointed if there was only human and orc to start with. At the very least the launch races/TBC races. They can consider adding for allied races over time. (I mean KT and Zandalari kind of already have great places to drop a neighborhood in their capital cities I feel, and Worgen and Pandarans both have areas they could put housing I think. It's just the art effort)

Yeah, I mean, there are a million places in Warcraft that I would consider having a house. It obviously will start small, but I hope that it doesn't just grow over time to new places, but doesn't start too small either because yeah, most players would be disappointed if it was only human and orc, but it's a pattern the game has followed for many other systems so it's something I want to brace for.

[SniperCT]

Eff it, just implement the Trust System from the FF MMOs.

While I think certain parts of the wow player base would freak out, I think that would end up being a net positive. I don't use it much myself, but a lot of people do and most of them still do dungeons with other players too.