Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[SniperCT]

You know, I think Garrisons might have been one of the first times they bragged that a feature was only ever intended to exist for that one expansion. I get it. I get that you want expansions to have selling features but if you have something really cool and new every expansion and plan to support it forever, there will eventually be too many features to support and the game is going to collapse under that feature creep.

However, never having anything continue forward creates its own problem and we've definitely experienced massive diminishing returns on the idea as selling points. No one's excited about a selling point they know isn't going to matter for more than two years maximum.

Also, World of Warcraft isn't the only place I've been seeing it recently, but there also seems to be a problem of thinking that the only thing that has worth is something that catches on right out of the gate. Again, I get not throwing good money after bad, but we've also had so many interesting ideas with flawed executions seemingly abandoned because of the flawed execution, instead of just fixing the execution and making them beloved.

I mean, I know it's a controversial opinion, but out of all the Mission Tables, my favorite is still the original Garrison one. Why? Because there was so much variety in it. Sure, to guarantee the endgame missions you were still encouraged to min-max and prioritize special characters, but there were a million followers and traits and the whole thing had so much flavor. Nowadays it feels like the Mission Tables are there just to fill some quota. I don't care which generic Kyrian and Venthyr I'm sending on a mission. I'm not sending Garona who I have trained to Dance and Love Ogres, which actually meant something to me, even if the gameplay side of it was still set and forget.

I swear that's 50/50 players/devs fault, the whole abandoning promising features rather than fixing them. Players for being impatient and devs for not sticking to their guns.

Though sometimes things to get better. Original implementation of transmog sucked, for example.

[Chickat]

I made this as a rough concept of what I think the Dragon Isles should/could look like. I know it's not super innovative as it basically just combines the obvious ideas all into one, like having one zone for each dragonflight and including a Titan Facility (which is something everyone already expects).

If I had more time, I could have tried to flesh it out with more info about raids, dungeons, quest hubs, etc. but I also don't think I'm very good at coming up with ideas like that. My only wish is that we get more Caverns of Time type stuff if there's a Bronze dragonflight zone.



EDIT: Also, in hindsight, I'd probably swap the locations of some of these zones. Like maybe Blue dragonflight's zone should be in the center so the snow makes more sense (?) and Bronze dragonflight's zone should be where I placed the Green dragonflight's zone.

This is really cool.

[draugril]

I get that you want expansions to have selling features but if you have something really cool and new every expansion and plan to support it forever, there will eventually be too many features to support and the game is going to collapse under that feature creep..

Complete myth. One that Blizzard enjoys because it justifies their development philosophy. But if you’ve played MMOs outside of WoW both before it and after it, there are quite a few examples of games that continually add features and don’t “collapse.” Why not? Because, generally speaking, they isolate those features and future proof them, no future iterations required. They also tend not to spend the bulk of their resources designing systems that they deliberately throw out and reinvent every two years.

[Chickat]

That would be real cool. That or Scholomance as a raid or Megadungeon would be great.

What is a rebuilt atratholme was that alliance city.

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Thinking of another Ragefire Chasm type dungeon inside where you have to go into a locked district of the city away from all the civilians to clean up the remainder of the scourge that were too powerful for the guards to handle.

Thats a really cool idea.

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Bard: And now... For my final ability, I'm gonna play Wonderwall.

Mob: Please no! Anything but that!

Wonderwall is great -.-

[SniperCT]

Complete myth. One that Blizzard enjoys because it justifies their development philosophy. But if you’ve played MMOs outside of WoW both before it and after it, there are quite a few examples of games that continually add features and don’t “collapse.” Why not? Because, generally speaking, they isolate those features and future proof them, no future iterations required. They also tend not to spend the bulk of their resources designing systems that they deliberately throw out and reinvent every two years.

Case in point POTD and HoH in FF14. Basically what Torghast tried to be. Still relevant, still played, designed in such a way as they don't really need to do much with them now except bug fixes. Even end game dungeons and raids remain relevant because they get rolled into the scaling LFD system at the end of an expansion. Meaning that I could, right now, queue up for the end game from an expansion 3 expansions ago, and be scaled in such a way that it's still a challenge and still fun and players regularly do this, like the queue is comparable to any other content. (Or I can check the box for going in at max level if I felt like it)

Pretty much everything added to that game generally remains doable and relevant without needing to be constantly updated. At most, the occasional new reward and bug fixes.

[Chickat]

Praying we’ll get new race/class combinations. I want my Night Elf Shaman T_T

Pandaren and belf druid for me.

[Kiria]

You mean extend the exile reach dungeon to other dungeons?

Yes omg yes please!!! or at least use NPC's like the trust system in FFXIV.

Hell add a base raid version for people to do instead of having to deal with the Toxicity of LFR.

[maplesyrupgl]

Hey guys I've found a LEAKED image of the Dragon Isles. Each section represents one of the dragonflights (Black dragons are underground).



I also have it on good authority that Azeroth is a First Ones construct who is lying under the sea and her face is directly below the island.



At the end of the expansion she'll wake up and stand up, which you can see here:

[ercarp]

Wonderwall is great -.-

It's just a meme, I don't think I've ever even heard it.

[SniperCT]

Ah the bionicle crossover we've always wanted

[Skildar]

You know, I think Garrisons might have been one of the first times they bragged that a feature was only ever intended to exist for that one expansion. I get it. I get that you want expansions to have selling features but if you have something really cool and new every expansion and plan to support it forever, there will eventually be too many features to support and the game is going to collapse under that feature creep.

However, never having anything continue forward creates its own problem and we've definitely experienced massive diminishing returns on the idea as selling points. No one's excited about a selling point they know isn't going to matter for more than two years maximum.

Also, World of Warcraft isn't the only place I've been seeing it recently, but there also seems to be a problem of thinking that the only thing that has worth is something that catches on right out of the gate. Again, I get not throwing good money after bad, but we've also had so many interesting ideas with flawed executions seemingly abandoned because of the flawed execution, instead of just fixing the execution and making them beloved.

I mean, I know it's a controversial opinion, but out of all the Mission Tables, my favorite is still the original Garrison one. Why? Because there was so much variety in it. Sure, to guarantee the endgame missions you were still encouraged to min-max and prioritize special characters, but there were a million followers and traits and the whole thing had so much flavor. Nowadays it feels like the Mission Tables are there just to fill some quota. I don't care which generic Kyrian and Venthyr I'm sending on a generic mission. I'm not sending Garona who I have trained to Dance and Love Ogres, which actually meant something to me, even if the gameplay side of it was still set and forget.

This is very true and in my guild a lot of people share your opinion on the garrison mission table. This is the one where optimizing your followers worked best.

They've tried implementing something similar in Shadowlands and without the random victory-loose system. I would still rather have a system where you can reach the 200% win like the garrison had but you have to invest some time and resources to optimize properly your team.

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Yes omg yes please!!! or at least use NPC's like the trust system in FFXIV.

Hell add a base raid version for people to do instead of having to deal with the Toxicity of LFR.

what's wrong with playing with a guild ?

[Polybius]

It's quite sad that even Runes of Magic, an old carbon copy of WoW, has housing.

[Kiria]

This is very true and in my guild a lot of people share your opinion on the garrison mission table. This is the one where optimizing your followers worked best.

They've tried implementing something similar in Shadowlands and without the random victory-loose system. I would still rather have a system where you can reach the 200% win like the garrison had but you have to invest some time and resources to optimize properly your team.

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what's wrong with playing with a guild ?

Most guilds are dead, and not everyone has time to spend hours in game due to real life responsibilities ie work/family.

It would do no harm to you YOU can still use your guild, This is for people who want to play Solo/not do group content.

[PomPomPop]

Hey guys I've found a LEAKED image of the Dragon Isles. Each section represents one of the dragonflights (Black dragons are underground).

[SNIP~]

Thanks for the chuckle. I needed it xD

[Skildar]

Most guilds are dead, and not everyone has time to spend hours in game due to real life responsibilities ie work/family.

It would do no harm to you YOU can still use your guild, This is for people who want to play Solo/not do group content.

this is a very ominous way way to say such a thing...

First of all, most guilds are not dead, this is just a baseless claim. And the game has more to gain out of making joining a guild more friendly rather than making group content a solo activity.

[SniperCT]

this is a very ominous way way to say such a thing...

First of all, most guilds are not dead, this is just a baseless claim. And the game has more to gain out of making joining a guild more friendly rather than making group content a solo activity.

Being able to solo a group activity works pretty well in other games without ruining the multiplayer aspect or detracting from grouping/guilding.

[Catastrophy349]

I'm definitely excited to see where we go (zone wise) for 10.0. Whether that means multiple zones like Cataclysm, or a singular continent/island of zones. One of my favorite aspects of each new WoW expansion.

[Skildar]

Being able to solo a group activity works pretty well in other games without ruining the multiplayer aspect or detracting from grouping/guilding.

it depends what kind of activities and what you're missing on not doing it with other people.
What would it be for raids then? Doing the raid in normal mode doesn't gove you a very high item level gear as Zereth Mortis can award you items of similar level. How do they handle it in other games?

[Polybius]

this is a very ominous way way to say such a thing...

First of all, most guilds are not dead, this is just a baseless claim. And the game has more to gain out of making joining a guild more friendly rather than making group content a solo activity.

The guilds that aren't dead are very volatile, they stay one tier but abandon or shake up after a few months. It's still hard to find a guild that actively commits, even with the right tools. Some are longtime groups of friends, the rest are throwaways and pyramid schemes.

You'll find better use of time pugging than looking for a guild, and everyone knows what pugs are like... At least with bots you can encourage newbies to take the plunge, learn mechanics, and build confidence to fill needed roles. It helps counter the negative mindset instilled by other players in pugs.

[SniperCT]

it depends what kind of activities and what you're missing on not doing it with other people.
What would it be for raids then? Doing the raid in normal mode doesn't gove you a very high item level gear as Zereth Mortis can award you items of similar level. How do they handle it in other games?

FF14 experimented with trusts (npc party members) in an 8-man trial (think onyxia without the trash) for the first time in Endwalker and it went pretty well. But the story trials only drop things like mini pets and triple triad cards, not actual loot.

Prior to that, the trust was only in the story dungeons. And the dungeons all drop loot but nothing endgame. A lot of people like to farm for pets and the like with the trust system. But endgame doesn't use the trust system at all.

The important thing with this is basically... farming cosmetics plus getting to see the story without randos screwing with you. That was the whole point of the trust system. In WoW, it would be nice to go through the raids (and it wouldn't be easy since AI can be ... interesting), but without having to deal with other playerss.

For example, replace LFR with a trust NPC system where you can have NPCs replace the raid members. Anything that lets you see the story of the raid (and expansion) without having to worry about the logistics of raiding.