1. #37641
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Order is not the creator though. The Titans did not create worlds, they ordered them. The Force of Order did not create reality, it imposes order on it. If multiple timelines exist, it makes sure they are tidy but it doesn't create them. Creation itself is the realm of the First Ones.

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    The Bronze flight could find other timelines, it's how Kairoz found the WoD one. I think it works like the Wheel of Time (no idea if the series touched it); there are multiple timelines running parallel to each other but there is a Prime timeline and every other one is somewhat less real.
    Order likely doesn't end with the Titans. We tought it did, but that was before the First Ones entered the picture. They were created for the purpose of maintaining order. So Creation and the will to impose order unto it likely came from the same source after all.

  2. #37642
    Also, just because something is chaotic from our perspective, doesn’t mean it’s not ordered from a pulled out view. All the multiple timelines could end up being a beautiful tapestry when zoomed out enough.

  3. #37643
    Tbh, I am hoping for something rather "chill". Like, after three worldending threats directly assaulting the worldsoul, the dragonflights are stepping up their role as protectors of the world and trying to mend the WOONZ of Azeroth. Of course there has to be some villain/threat, but it really doesn't need to be "threatening reality itself tier". Every dragonflight has a story to tell, some about rebuilding (Green, Black) and some about impending threats (Bronze). Could also be the "seed" for a World revamp in 11.0.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggler View Post
    Tbh, I am hoping for something rather "chill". Like, after three worldending threats directly assaulting the worldsoul, the dragonflights are stepping up their role as protectors of the world and trying to mend the WOONZ of Azeroth. Of course there has to be some villain/threat, but it really doesn't need to be "threatening reality itself tier". Every dragonflight has a story to tell, some about rebuilding (Green, Black) and some about impending threats (Bronze). Could also be the "seed" for a World revamp in 11.0.
    I think we all hope for a more chill expansion. But are various degrees of curious regarding how it will fit into the greater narrative.

  5. #37645
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    I think we all hope for a more chill expansion. But are various degrees of curious regarding how it will fit into the greater narrative.
    I'm surprised that none of the "leaks" that I am aware of touched on the Sword. Seems like an easy win for anyone pitching a "catch up" expansion.

  6. #37646
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Order likely doesn't end with the Titans. We tought it did, but that was before the First Ones entered the picture. They were created for the purpose of maintaining order. So Creation and the will to impose order unto it likely came from the same source after all.
    But that's not what we were told. The First ones created the six Forces and let the interplay between them create everything in between. So Order did not create, it ordered (and was created to handle that task). The titans and their origin is probably exactly the same it was before 9.2; created by the interaction between the Light and Void within our world.

  7. #37647
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    But that's not what we were told. The First ones created the six Forces and let the interplay between them create everything in between. So Order did not create, it ordered (and was created to handle that task). The titans and their origin is probably exactly the same it was before 9.2; created by the interaction between the Light and Void within our world.
    But is that really true? What about the various Zereths? Since the Eternal Ones literally come out of a 3D printer, there seems to be a more direct involvement. At least for that sphere.

  8. #37648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    The Broken Isles was never a lost continent though, it never was disconnected from the outside world, other than Suramar. Drogbar and Nightborne being the only real thing that was new to us. People tend to forget Pandaria is the only continent on Azeroth added in an expansion that was hidden and discovered as brand new to the world in the game's story.
    it was completely disconected and we never heard anything about it, hell, it didn't even exist, like the way it is until legion.

    Before, the lore stated Gul'dan raised the entire broken isles, and wasn't a big place, they later retconed he only raised the island of Thal'dranath/Broken shore, also, and everything there surviving the sundering, which completely nonsensical, a big place with a lot of people and we never interact/never went there, they also never left, and there wasn't mists to excuse their total isolation.

  9. #37649
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    But is that really true? What about the various Zereths? Since the Eternal Ones literally come out of a 3D printer, there seems to be a more direct involvement. At least for that sphere.
    That is what I am saying. The Eternal ones were made for a single task and that is overseeing death. New afterlives can be created as needed by the Zereth but it doesn't create a new world just new tools to handle the cycle of death. The same thing should be true about Zereth Ordos. It probably creates the tools Order needs to order the world, not to create new worlds. Everything happening in the middle is meant to be indirect to the work of the First Ones; there is likely no Zereth of the space between the Forces because the point of the world is to be the result of how the Forces interact so to speak. Or at least this is how I understand it.

    Heck, people tried to link Azeroth with the word Zereth. Yet they mostly interpreted "A" as an article. Etymologically it is far more reasonable to define it as the Privative Prefix; i.e. Without a Zereth.

  10. #37650
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    it was completely disconected and we never heard anything about it, hell, it didn't even exist, like the way it is until legion.

    Before, the lore stated Gul'dan raised the entire broken isles, and wasn't a big place, they later retconed he only raised the island of Thal'dranath/Broken shore, also, and everything there surviving the sundering, which completely nonsensical, a big place with a lot of people and we never interact/never went there, they also never left, and there wasn't mists to excuse their total isolation.
    You need to understand that as long enough people playing and paying the game.

    They will rise and create new Islands-„Continents“

    Retcon and twist things so far we will not recognize them

    Create Forces more powerfully than the before ones
    Last edited by uikolertekopoku; 2022-04-07 at 01:00 PM.

  11. #37651
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    There is no reason for Order to make something so complex. If they want to be sure its ordered, just make 1 timeline.
    There is no reason for Order not to, either. Order isn't about simplicity. It's about what does happen doing so in an ordered fashion.

    For that matter, Order is a necessity for any complex design.

  12. #37652
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    There is no reason for Order not to, either. Order isn't about simplicity. It's about what does happen doing so in an ordered fashion.

    For that matter, Order is a necessity for any complex design.
    Furthermore the First Ones crafted forces in natural opposition. They created both Order and Disorder. So the intent of the design naturally is that Order always has something to shape and Disorder always has something to deform.

  13. #37653
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    But is that really true? What about the various Zereths? Since the Eternal Ones literally come out of a 3D printer, there seems to be a more direct involvement. At least for that sphere.
    You're missing your own point there. The First Ones created Order, sure. But they also created Disorder, it's counter force. From that, it is obvious they believe both to be necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Furthermore the First Ones crafted forces in natural opposition. They created both Order and Disorder. So the intent of the design naturally is that Order always has something to shape and Disorder always has something to deform.
    And neither is the whole system by itself.

  14. #37654
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    Quote Originally Posted by uikolertekopoku View Post
    You need to understand that as long enough people playing and paying the game.

    They will rise and create new Islands-„Continents“

    Retcon and twist things so far we will not recognize them

    Create Forces more powerfully than the before ones
    i do know that, im just saying the place is totally disconnected and make little sense, the way they did was not good like they did to zandalar/kul'tiras/pandaria.

    Pandaria had the mists covering, kul'tirans and zandalari were well know but off-limits, kul'tiras closed itself from the outside world after the events of Wc3 and no one in sane mind would set foot in zandalar and there was no reasons for most of the residents to leave.

    If Dragon isles are flying islands this solve the problem of why no one never went there

  15. #37655
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You're missing your own point there. The First Ones created Order, sure. But they also created Disorder, it's counter force. From that, it is obvious they believe both to be necessary.
    Absolutely. These oposing forced definte themselves as the absence of the other. Death is the end of life. Disorder is the absence of order. You can only illluminate darkness. The opposing force has to exist to keep this whole shabang stable.

  16. #37656
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    i do know that, im just saying the place is totally disconnected and make little sense, the way they did was not good like they did to zandalar/kul'tiras/pandaria.

    Pandaria had the mists covering, kul'tirans and zandalari were well know but off-limits, kul'tiras closed itself from the outside world after the events of Wc3 and no one in sane mind would set foot in zandalar and there was no reasons for most of the residents to leave.

    If Dragon isles are flying islands this solve the problem of why no one never went there
    The thing is, that nobody expected that wow will last that long and become such succes.

    The world and its lore was too small, so they retcon,twist, and invent new Things.

    It was a matter of Time things started to be ridiculous and far fetched, i know it doesnt make sense and is bad done

  17. #37657
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    Quote Originally Posted by uikolertekopoku View Post
    The thing is, that nobody expected that wow will last that long and become such succes.

    The world and its lore was too small, so they retcon,twist, and invent new Things.

    It was a matter of Time things started to be ridiculous and far fetched, i know it doesnt make sense and is bad done
    You can do much without retconing things, the world is gigantic, we barely saw one side of azeroth, they could have put a place far way. See how the right side of the planet is bloated now

  18. #37658
    Quote Originally Posted by uikolertekopoku View Post
    The thing is, that nobody expected that wow will last that long and become such succes.

    The world and its lore was too small, so they retcon,twist, and invent new Things.

    It was a matter of Time things started to be ridiculous and far fetched, i know it doesnt make sense and is bad done
    The issue is really that they focused on breadth instead of depth. But I am unsure if the market would have reacted well if they did got for depth (because that would necessarily mean revisiting existing locations and expanding upon them instead of constantly creating new locations).

  19. #37659
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    You can do much without retconing things, the world is gigantic, we barely saw one side of azeroth, they could have put a place far way. See how the right side of the planet is bloated now
    Moreover, you can expand on something without retconning elements of it. Something that WoW is surprisingly unsuccessful at - they prefer to continually add entirely new creations (which is not an inherently bad thing) instead of evolving what has been established, and when they do revisit existing lore, they tend to mess with it retroactively in some way.

  20. #37660


    See you soon!

    Concept from 2016, i guess we are heading there
    Last edited by uikolertekopoku; 2022-04-07 at 01:29 PM.

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