Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[uikolertekopoku]

Things to come… we will find out that…

Sargeras received orders from a „Disorder God or Phanteon“ it will be revealed that this wasnt his
„Burning Crusade“


The First Ones creation intened to create perfect Universe but a fallen First One is responsible for the mess we face.

Later it turns out that The Fallen First One was actually manipulated by the „Force outside our understanding „

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That's a shocker. I'm surprised they're bothering to remember old lore again. I suppose one too many retcons and a few too much in the department of forgotten lore has finally warranted a response.

No it has nothing to do with protecting the Old Lore.

Due the big mess and never ending expanding threats twisting lore and retcons.

They need a whole Team to understand what was actually changed or retconed and what is actually canon.

Its like lying all the time, sooner or later you beleive it or you just dont remeber where your location is in your constructed world

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Things to come… we will find out that…

Sargeras received orders from a „Disorder God or Phanteon“ it will be revealed that this wasnt his
„Burning Crusade“


The First Ones creation intened to create perfect Universe but a fallen First One is responsible for the mess we face.

Later it turns out that The Fallen First One was actually manipulated by the „Force outside our understanding „

As little faith as I have in the lore, I doubt it's that bad. I highly doubt we're going to find out Sargeras was being manipulated, nor that we'll find out the rogue First One was. I imagine that we may face Disorder-based villain that Sargeras had locked away somewhere, though, as well as meet a potential rogue First One responsible for a malignant exterior force. I maintain that the "seventh force" is the ideological sublation (i.e. Hegel) of all other forces, which I actually think would be very interesting, and that "what is to come" is a massive Cosmic War—keep in mind Zovaal is a control freak and unreliable narrator. The "flawed" design to him is probably the existence of multiple Cosmic Forces at all to permit the conflict, not realizing at all that the underlying Hegelian sublation between every force is necessary for reality to function.

Eesh, this would be a very cool story in any other medium or by any other writers, wouldn't it?

No it has nothing to do with protecting the Old Lore.

Due the big mess and never ending expanding threats twisting lore and retcons.

They need a whole Team to understand what was actually changed or retconed and what is actually canon.

Its like lying all the time, sooner or later you beleive it or you just dont remeber where your location is in your constructed world

I figure it's more about both—they're trying to salvage their retcons and are likely realizing the extent of the criticism they're getting for retconning old lore so haphazardly. There are some examples where I think it's deliberate, like Zovaal, but there's also some cases where they clearly made a mistake—namely, Scourge architecture coming from Maldraxxus instead of the Nerubians.

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Given the effects of azerite I would have guessed something more like evolution or igenuity, maybe something like the spark of creativity. Mortality feels a bit trivial given the realms of life and death.

That's a very good guess—I maintain sublation as likely, though, since ingenuity and creativity seem to be shared between the Arcane and Light. In my mind, it's everything working together that's the seventh force—not quite in the sense of al of them combined, but more the results of their interactions and the way in which each force interacting with another changes the given force. Think of Hegelian Dialectics (abstract, negative, concrete, aufhaben)

[Bsirk]

Would an existing ui port into a new engine well?

Maybe they are taking forever because they are porting WoW to UE5? UE5 WoW would make it a lot easier to port to consoles. I mean the chance is less than 1%, but what if?

Don't you dare give me that hope!!

[Marlamin]

Don't you dare give me that hope!!

This isn't realistic in the slightest, so don't worry about that.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Don't you dare give me that hope!!

We regret to inform you Blizzard did not in fact hire that man.

[ChronoSul]

Dragon Isles could just be a portal to the moon. Where dragons are really from for all we know.

At this point I would be pretty surprised if they end up just being some islands in the middle of the current map. Even if are just generic islands, they aren't bound by the same placement constraints for them like they were with Broken Isles, Kul Tiras and Zandalar. I have no idea why they wouldn't move them to the otherside of Azeroth.

U joke about a moon expansion but I think that would be a really fun idea they could get really weird with but I doubt it will ever happen.

[uikolertekopoku]

[Cosmic Janitor]

That's a very good guess—I maintain sublation as likely, though, since ingenuity and creativity seem to be shared between the Arcane and Light. In my mind, it's everything working together that's the seventh force—not quite in the sense of al of them combined, but more the results of their interactions and the way in which each force interacting with another changes the given force. Think of Hegelian Dialectics (abstract, negative, concrete, aufhaben)

Well azerite does have properties of all 6 (or at least 5) forces. It can violently explode since it's volatile like chaos/fel, it can be highly structures like order (crystals and stuff), it can create life (animate the earth), I guess it can kill in various ways and it lights the place up. It's really only void where I have a hard time coming up with a parallel at all, though death is also kinda weak and the connection to the darker classes in BfA was rather flimsy at best when it came to the azerite class skills.

Btw, I'm not sure I would ascribe creativity (etc). to arcane and light. Arcane is more themed after general knowledge and light seems to me more about devotion and ironically also order. The void with the endless whispers and showing all the possibilities seems me more in the ballpark of creativity.

I'm 50/50 on sublation, as I'm not sure I would trust Blizzard to go that far into philosophy (or use it properly). But I can see where you are coming from in regards to the ramblings about the 7th force.

[Nymrohd]

U joke about a moon expansion but I think that would be a really fun idea they could get really weird with but I doubt it will ever happen.

Heck a moon is a small enough place that it can all be covered in one expansion. Only issue would be the curvature I wonder if it is even possible for the engine to simulate a sphere by having a self-contained plane (i.e. once you travel enough in one direction you warp at the opposite end of the plane.)

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Well azerite does have properties of all 6 (or at least 5) forces. It can violently explode since it's volatile like chaos/fel, it can be highly structures like order (crystals and stuff), it can create life (animate the earth), I guess it can kill in various ways and it lights the place up. It's really only void where I have a hard time coming up with a parallel at all, though death is also kinda weak and the connection to the darker classes in BfA was rather flimsy at best when it came to the azerite class skills.

Btw, I'm not sure I would ascribe creativity (etc). to arcane and light. Arcane is more themed after general knowledge and light seems to me more about devotion and ironically also order. The void with the endless whispers and showing all the possibilities seems me more in the ballpark of creativity.

I'm 50/50 on sublation, as I'm not sure I would trust Blizzard to go that far into philosophy (or use it properly). But I can see where you are coming from in regards to the ramblings about the 7th force.

Azerite also makes people imagine myriad of possibilities realized which is a trait of the void.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Azerite also makes people imagine myriad of possibilities realized which is a trait of the void.

Ah good call, I forgot that was also stated about it.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Azerite also makes people imagine myriad of possibilities realized which is a trait of the void.

I'd say I just think of Azeroth as a particularly powerful Titan and the First Ones' connection to it is only based on Azeroth as a very powerful entity they want to have happen for the sake of their design. I imagine that the reason Azerite has traits of the Void is because it, like we've seen Titan blood tends to do, increases intelligence and expedites evolution. It's all in-character for what Order does—think of it like a superpowered Arcane Intellect spell.

It is also possible it foreshadows the extent of the Old Gods' corruption of Azeroth, though.

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Well azerite does have properties of all 6 (or at least 5) forces. It can violently explode since it's volatile like chaos/fel, it can be highly structures like order (crystals and stuff), it can create life (animate the earth), I guess it can kill in various ways and it lights the place up. It's really only void where I have a hard time coming up with a parallel at all, though death is also kinda weak and the connection to the darker classes in BfA was rather flimsy at best when it came to the azerite class skills.

Btw, I'm not sure I would ascribe creativity (etc). to arcane and light. Arcane is more themed after general knowledge and light seems to me more about devotion and ironically also order. The void with the endless whispers and showing all the possibilities seems me more in the ballpark of creativity.

I'm 50/50 on sublation, as I'm not sure I would trust Blizzard to go that far into philosophy (or use it properly). But I can see where you are coming from in regards to the ramblings about the 7th force.

That's all quite good observations, and you are right that it's probably not in Blizzard's ballpark to use it.

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Now that I think of it, I wonder if Eonar is corrupted in a similar way to Sargeras or Argus, albeit in a more benign way that makes her remain compatible with the Pantheon. She is the only Titan other than Sargeras or Argus who has a connection to a sphere that isn't connected to Order in some way. Perhaps it has something to do with Elune and would explain why the Titans were in possession of her tear?

[Nymrohd]

I'd say I just think of Azeroth as a particularly powerful Titan and the First Ones' connection to it is only based on Azeroth as a very powerful entity they want to have happen for the sake of their design. I imagine that the reason Azerite has traits of the Void is because it, like we've seen Titan blood tends to do, increases intelligence and expedites evolution. It's all in-character for what Order does—think of it like a superpowered Arcane Intellect spell.

It is also possible it foreshadows the extent of the Old Gods' corruption of Azeroth, though.

If Azeroth is the First Ones' plan realized then it stands to reason that she is of all six forces equally. Which matches with the players. We have people using all six forces on Azeroth.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

If Azeroth is the First Ones' plan realized then it stands to reason that she is of all six forces equally. Which matches with the players. We have people using all six forces on Azeroth.

I don't really like to think that she's really the ultimate overlap of everything herself—rather, Azeroth as a planet just hosts every power to some extent. I think – or like to think – Azeroth herself is just a Titan of the usual kind whose power is simply attractive to all the forces.

[Nymrohd]

I don't really like to think that she's really the ultimate overlap of everything herself—rather, Azeroth as a plant just hosts every power to some extent. I think – or like to think – Azeroth herself is just a Titan of the usual kind whose power is simply attractive to all the forces.

But the Titans were the apex of the interplay of Void and Light. By their nature they are aligned with Order but also Life. And even if not intended, Azeroth has been infused with Fel and Death (since Sargeras and Zovaal both symbolically fucked her, what with the huge phallic symbol plunged into her and the drills at the end of a massive pair of spires).

[AOL Instant Messenger]

But the Titans were the apex of the interplay of Void and Light. By their nature they are aligned with Order but also Life. And even if not intended, Azeroth has been infused with Fel and Death (since Sargeras and Zovaal both symbolically fucked her, what with the huge phallic symbol plunged into her and the drills at the end of a massive pair of spires).

Fair enough. I'm hoping they'll keep it simple, though—don't want Azeroth to come off as a bit of a Mary Sue-type figure, given how much we have that already. Comes off too much like Med'an if she has all the forces working together on her.

[Nymrohd]

Fair enough. I'm hoping they'll keep it simple, though—don't want Azeroth to come off as a bit of a Mary Sue-type figure, given how much we have that already. Comes off too much like Med'an if she has all the forces working together on her.

I mean she already is. The Titans were awed when they found her, Sargeras wanted her for his consort, we are all trying to protect her while she is all powerful and the only thing that can defeat the Void Lords, Zovaal needed her to reshape the cosmos . . . everything in this story is ultimately about Azeroth. Also Magni calls her "lass". So she deserves to be a Mary Sue.

[Chickat]

This isn't realistic in the slightest, so don't worry about that.

So your telling me there's a chance

[Marlamin]

So your telling me there's a chance

If the entire development team on both the new engine as well as the current WoW backend developer team as well as all possible replacement hires in the world are hit by a meteor and only game designers are left, definitely a chance!

[Yus atath]

Shadowland was the final chapter of the first “book”. 10.0 will be the first chapter of a new book. This is how i see it..

[draugril]

Shadowland was the final chapter of the first “book”. 10.0 will be the first chapter of a new book. This is how i see it..

Alternatively, that's a line they were fed by the PR team to minimize their abandonment of Shadowlands (that happens to be similar to a truth spoken by their competition).