Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Local Ardenweald Faerie]

I understand your confusion and question plainly. There would obviously need to be an internal system in play that would be able to adjust the item level of gear as you progress through the story (campaign) at various points. This is why we would need another linear story versus "choose your own adventure". With a linear story, Blizzard could adjust quests with appropriate item level gear at different points in the story. For example, item level 280 gear for introduction quests, item level 285 gear for middle of Zone 1 quests, and item level 290 gear for end of Zone 1 quests (or something like that).

Then, when you go to Zone 2, there is another jump in item level. Personally, the item level jump should be small from beginning of zone, to middle, to end. Then, small again to the next zone, and so on. By the time you finish the final zone (can't say how many new zones), you would be at an appropriate item level to enter the Normal Dungeons (max level dungeons).

That makes a ton of sense and should've been something I thought of. I was thinking the increase of item levels would've been large but small, incremental jumps make a ton more sense.

That raises another question; it should be easy to track if the zones were not linear, right? Lets say we have four zones to level in. Whatever zone I pick would then be labeled as "Zone 1" using your terminology, and should give me gear up to level 290 by the end of it.

Then I pick another zone, then its labeled Zone 2. The intro gives me 295 gear. And so on and so forth.

With the level scaling already in the game, it shouldn't be hard to keep track of something like that, at least in my thoughts.

[Chickat]

I think people are picturing the Dragon Isles as too cohesive, like a big continent of primarily just dragons (whereas not even Pandaria was just Pandaren). Look at how diverse the Broken Isles were, let alone the Shadowlands. Dragonkin will of course likely be the the most populated species on the Dragon Isles, but we'll likely meet a lot of new humanoid species we've never seen before, and likely some new civilizations made up of races we have seen before (think Broken Isles Vrykul and Tauren, Kul Tiran Quilboar, etc). The Dragon Isles will look a lot different than we're likely picturing, unless it's just one zone in which case yeah probably just dragons.

Yeah DI will be the MoP but for dragons. MoP was mostly pandas, but plenty other stuff going on as well.

[Chickat]

That being said, as much as I loved finally exploring the Broken Isles and BFA zones, I'd love for an expansion on the other side of Azeroth with a bunch of new continents that were not known before, like Pandaria. It could give us literal years worth of expansions and new lore and zones to explore.

Technically couldn't the known landmasses be just 1/4 to 1/3 of the total globe?

[Khaza-R]

I have trouble understanding how no leveling would work regarding player gear, as currently the leveling makes previous tier irrelevant and brings everyone to a similar ilvl

They could easily replace it with a system similar to renown.

Lets say instead of hitting 61 and you ilvl increases by 13, instead you just need to hit level 5 renown (or whatever they want to call it)

[Chickat]

interesting thing im not sure many have noticed but the neck from xymox taht teleports you has story implications

for example cartel Xy had a ship on draenor before it became outland at least if you go by the wrecked ship and assume it was there before the big boom

then theres also the broker chick that we find early in haven when her beloved is talking to her she was a member of cartel Ai but apparently left/ it was wiped out i dont remember if it was touched upon

now if we knew the hierarchy of these cartels we could figure out how important xymox was and their planet was destroyed so we might be able to assume based on their portal tech that they are from the same planet as the ethereals

That wouldn't actually be cool. Maybe its kinda like the Ethereals were Homo-sapiens, and the Brokers were Homo-erectus. 2 species very similar, but opposed.

[Catastrophy349]

That makes a ton of sense and should've been something I thought of. I was thinking the increase of item levels would've been large but small, incremental jumps make a ton more sense.

That raises another question; it should be easy to track if the zones were not linear, right? Lets say we have four zones to level in. Whatever zone I pick would then be labeled as "Zone 1" using your terminology, and should give me gear up to level 290 by the end of it.

Then I pick another zone, then its labeled Zone 2. The intro gives me 295 gear. And so on and so forth.

With the level scaling already in the game, it shouldn't be hard to keep track of something like that, at least in my thoughts.

The technology should be there, correct. However, while the "free choice" leveling in both Legion and BFA was refreshing and "new", I do think that linear story progression is the best. I remember the good ol' days of searching in /who to see what level everyone was during an expansion launch. In doing so, you would also see where that player was leveling (zone). With "free choice" leveling, you wouldn't be able to associate the level of a player with their zone as easily. For example, Netherstorm would assume Level 67-70. In Legion, for example, you could be any level 100-110 and in any zone.

[SniperCT]

Linear with threads of fate is the best way to go. I lowkey hated that Legion and BFA dont have a canon story order or at least not an option to playthrough that way.

It was obvious to me that the original Legion order was clockwise starting in Azsuna. Just from the way certain narrative elements went (such as the quest with the Sylvanas location intel leading to genn's attack on her ship)

[Local Ardenweald Faerie]

The technology should be there, correct. However, while the "free choice" leveling in both Legion and BFA was refreshing and "new", I do think that linear story progression is the best. I remember the good ol' days of searching in /who to see what level everyone was during an expansion launch. In doing so, you would also see where that player was leveling (zone). With "free choice" leveling, you wouldn't be able to associate the level of a player with their zone as easily. For example, Netherstorm would assume Level 67-70. In Legion, for example, you could be any level 100-110 and in any zone.

Makes sense, yeah.

While I liked having the choice, I always felt like Legion at least had an intended linear story path before the selection mechanic came in. Legion's story only really flowed cohesively if you went Azsuna > Val'sharah > Highmoutain > Stormheim. BFA was a little bit more ambiguous, but you get my point.

No matter if Dragonflight is 60-70, 50-60 with SL put into Chromie Time, or just plain level 60 content, sticking to linearity might be for the best.


... As long as each questing set looks awesome and has aesthetics tied to each flight.

[Catastrophy349]

Makes sense, yeah.

While I liked having the choice, I always felt like Legion at least had an intended linear story path before the selection mechanic came in. Legion's story only really flowed cohesively if you went Azsuna > Val'sharah > Highmoutain > Stormheim. BFA was a little bit more ambiguous, but you get my point.

No matter if Dragonflight is 60-70, 50-60 with SL put into Chromie Time, or just plain level 60 content, sticking to linearity might be for the best.


... As long as each questing set looks awesome and has aesthetics tied to each flight.

12 days. Almost there!

[Local Ardenweald Faerie]

12 days. Almost there!

I know you're not going to answer this but I actually, genuinely appreciate the developer insight. Thank you for the discussion!

[draugril]

For staying max level in Dragonflight and getting better gear while going through the new zones:

-Just make the story linear again
-Add higher and higher item level as you progress the story in each zone (zone to zone)

Look at the item level gear in 9.1 and 9.2 from quests. We were max level (60) and obtained gear from quests doing the new campaign that lined up with the item level of current/near current content.

Honestly, I would be thrilled if Shadowlands 9.2 Heroic raid gear was viable to start normal raiding with in Dragonflight.

[Catastrophy349]

I know you're not going to answer this but I actually, genuinely appreciate the developer insight. Thank you for the discussion!

I wish I were a developer.

[ro9ue]

I had a thought this morning, and I'm curious what others think.

What IF instead of adding 10 more levels in Dragonflight for current max level players to do (60), they:
1). Just had a campaign (story) that we had to follow through in each of the new zones in order to get to the end-game similar to how the linear story worked in Shadowlands. Sure, in Shadowlands we had 50-60; however, we also had to complete the campaign in order to unlock Covenants.
2). Alternatively, they could add Shadowlands to Chromie time (10-50), players can choose whatever version of WoW they wish to play through to go 50-60, then in Dragonflight, you would level 50-60 (current max level). In short, quests would give experience in Dragonflight for 50-60 players while level 60 players would just focus on the campaign. Doing so would allow players to skip Shadowlands 50-60 (if they wish), and level however they want 10-50 so that they could jump into Dragonflight with everyone else.

I'm not saying I like this, nor am I saying that I want this. I simply thought of this and figured I would bring up for discussion. Feel free to take this part, add additional context, or provide your perspective for how something like this could work.

Any expansion you play should take you to cap if you want to stay there.

Then for the end game Dragonflight experience, assuming we all start at level 60 and the cap isn't increased, players just hop right into the content they want to do. There will still be vertical progression in the form of gaining item level.

However I think filling bars is crucial to this game, it just needs to be done in a different way. I'd look at Destiny 2 or ESO for the models that are currently the best with a shared account-wide leveling system in the form of Seasons and Champion Points.

Destiny 2 uses the Seasons model. It's not unlike the Hearthstone seasonal reward track and it should be account wide in WoW. Dragonflight should launch with a fresh seasonal track that caps at 100 (most examples of this system have a smaller, repeatable reward for every 5 levels after cap - both HS and Destiny 2 do this). The track consists of transmog, goodies, titles, mounts etc - very similar to the existing WoW honor level system, but the rewards are far far more frequent in Destiny 2, like every level. So let's say I start Dragonflight at 60 with my Hunter. I play until about level 13 in the seasonal track when I realize I'm not feeling this class or just want to switch to an alt for a bit and play something. Well, I can just simply switch over to my Shaman or something and pick up exactly where I left off because the seasonal track is account wide.

ESO has Champion Points. Close relatives are D3 Paragon points and EQ alternate advancement where you're filling a bar for points to spend in a tree or something. D3's system wasn't as good because it was just raw stats and really there was no limiting factor to the grinding part. ESO cleverly uses slotting for certain things to make sure when they add more stuff, there's no bloat. So for example there are special nodes that you unlock with points, let's say there are 20 or something. You can only have 4 slotted at any time. This is nice because they can keep adding more and more each expansion and not worry about power bloat, there's only 4 you can slot, so the new ones they're providing are really just more options.

What's nice about both of these systems is playing a bunch of alts with a single shared end game progression track feels like you're getting cumulatively rewarded for having all of those characters, instead of having a bunch of alts that are unappealing to hop onto because they need to constantly be "caught up". I love both the ESO and Destiny 2 systems. They are a little different in their own way, but WoW could really, really use something like this.

[Revamp Man]

That wouldn't actually be cool. Maybe its kinda like the Ethereals were Homo-sapiens, and the Brokers were Homo-erectus. 2 species very similar, but opposed.

Ethereals are from cartel Ai that didn’t make it off the planet

[Zankai27]

I had a thought this morning, and I'm curious what others think.

What IF instead of adding 10 more levels in Dragonflight for current max level players to do (60), they:
1). Just had a campaign (story) that we had to follow through in each of the new zones in order to get to the end-game similar to how the linear story worked in Shadowlands. Sure, in Shadowlands we had 50-60; however, we also had to complete the campaign in order to unlock Covenants.
2). Alternatively, they could add Shadowlands to Chromie time (10-50), players can choose whatever version of WoW they wish to play through to go 50-60, then in Dragonflight, you would level 50-60 (current max level). In short, quests would give experience in Dragonflight for 50-60 players while level 60 players would just focus on the campaign. Doing so would allow players to skip Shadowlands 50-60 (if they wish), and level however they want 10-50 so that they could jump into Dragonflight with everyone else.

I'm not saying I like this, nor am I saying that I want this. I simply thought of this and figured I would bring up for discussion. Feel free to take this part, add additional context, or provide your perspective for how something like this could work.

This is sort of what the MMO-C Dragonflight leak is implying with no new level cap. It’s an interesting proposal that I’m all for. Being able to have all my alts and my main ready to progress toward end game right from the start is a really attractive idea (aside from any new classes we might have to level which would fit with your proposed idea.)

I really hope we get something like this instead of 10 more levels ad infinitum. It obviously won’t appeal to everyone but I think at least attempting it and leaving progression behind the story is a good idea.

[pacotaco]

Tbh, I am hoping for something rather "chill". Like, after three worldending threats directly assaulting the worldsoul, the dragonflights are stepping up their role as protectors of the world and trying to mend the WOONZ of Azeroth. Of course there has to be some villain/threat, but it really doesn't need to be "threatening reality itself tier". Every dragonflight has a story to tell, some about rebuilding (Green, Black) and some about impending threats (Bronze). Could also be the "seed" for a World revamp in 11.0.

I just had this train of though: we probably get a "chill" expansion like Pandaria. Pandaria's theme was about the consequences of war, how it destroyed a frail balance in the world and corrupted everything in its path.
What if the next expansion start with us looking to help the Aspect look for their immortality back, but along the way we discover that there's something wrong? Like now we "defeated" Death, Life somehow went out of control and we need stop it? But that creates a conflict with the Red Dragonflight, and we need to stop them.
Maybe that's why Nozdormu tried to change the future. Maybe we end killing Alextrasza, and then he's the only original Aspect alive, powerless and knowing that something is coming.

[D4NNYB0Y]

/snip

This is a really good idea. WoW's current system feels so stale. I would love if something like this were implemented. Having to redo everything on multiple characters just feels like they're milking the player base for MAUs diguised behind thinly veiled, sanctimonious design philosophy. It feels like working at a job that ignores all feedback "because we've always done it that way". I've been playing this game for 18 years, and it needs to adapt to the modern market.

[SniperCT]

I don't play ESO frequently, but I absolutely love the CP system. It would translate very well to WoW I think too.

[Chickat]

Ethereals are from cartel Ai that didn’t make it off the planet

Wait is that confirmed?

- - - Updated - - -

hey can anyone id this map in boralus? not matching with my current maps half tucked behind the zandalar map with all the dragon isles talk it would be kinda funny if they had left its map sitting in boralus

Thats WoD right?

[therumblings]

Wait is that confirmed?

No, there is no confirmed connection between the two.