1. #37881
    Quote Originally Posted by ZyntosAran View Post
    Do you mean the core system itself (as Like "we should change it to be action oriented like Skyrim or half action based like GW2) or do you mean the implementation, because obviously its a buggy mess at this point and lost so much potential because of how its implemented.

    The second one I agree, the first one sounds like a "you" problem to me.
    It's the first one. I just find it completely shallow. What fun is there in locking onto target and just spamming 1,2,3s? Player input is minimal.

  2. #37882
    if you change the combat and ban addons, expect most of the playerbase to quit.

  3. #37883
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    I don't even understand the logic beside this claim. There is nothing even remotely interesting about WoW's combat. Sure compared to the unmentionable competition the controls are much more responsive. But here is the thing. What they like about it is that it is responsive and faced paced. That would absolutely improve by huge leaps if WoW had action combat.
    Action combat doesn't work for several reasons: all healing specs would need to be gutted. The same about DoT based specs. Every action that needs proper targetting needs to be completely reworked.

    Action combat can never be as in depth and detailed as tab target combat - and I really like the action combat of ESO. But it's super shallow and very limited overall (most heals are ground based AoEs for example).

    WoW has one of the better tab target combats and it's fine that way. When class design is good, tab target is no issue at all. But class design in BfA and Shadowlands has been pretty bad (in BfA in general even with Azerite, in Shadowlands without Covenants; with Covenants it's pretty good).
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  4. #37884
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    if you change the combat and ban addons, expect most of the playerbase to quit.
    I'm not saying they should do that in WoW, it's just something I'd want from WoW 2.

  5. #37885
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    I'm not saying they should do that in WoW, it's just something I'd want from WoW 2.
    WoW 2 is basically never happening, because it already exists. Pretty much anything they could accomplish in a WoW 2 can be done with an expansion (albeit an extremely ambitious one), and they wouldn't have to have everyone lose all their decades worth of progress. But even without a WoW 2, this is a very real and serious problem Blizzard needs to seriously start addressing and focusing on the long term goals of WoW as a whole, because it's been around for roughly 2 decades and they need a plan to support it for just as long, and that's just from judging Everquest and how long it's been around.

  6. #37886
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZyntosAran View Post
    Do you mean the core system itself (as Like "we should change it to be action oriented like Skyrim or half action based like GW2) or do you mean the implementation, because obviously its a buggy mess at this point and lost so much potential because of how its implemented.

    The second one I agree, the first one sounds like a "you" problem to me.
    I'd say it is more like a trend problem than a "you" problem. Let's face it. Tab targeting is not fashionable anymore. And it isn't even a question of us liking it or not. It is happening. Chances are if the relaunch of FFXIV happened now instead of ten years ago, it would also get action combat. Hell it happens with the single player installments that left behind the turn based combat (that peaked at X and I'm willing to die on this hill).

  7. #37887
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    It's the first one. I just find it completely shallow. What fun is there in locking onto target and just spamming 1,2,3s? Player input is minimal.
    But it is not simply locking and spamming 1,2,3. And you know it. You got all the PvE and PvP mechanics that interfere with that. Unless of course we talk about simply standing and nuking target dummy.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  8. #37888
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Action combat doesn't work for several reasons: all healing specs would need to be gutted. The same about DoT based specs. Every action that needs proper targetting needs to be completely reworked.

    Action combat can never be as in depth and detailed as tab target combat - and I really like the action combat of ESO. But it's super shallow and very limited overall (most heals are ground based AoEs for example).

    WoW has one of the better tab target combats and it's fine that way. When class design is good, tab target is no issue at all. But class design in BfA and Shadowlands has been pretty bad (in BfA in general even with Azerite, in Shadowlands without Covenants; with Covenants it's pretty good).
    I mean, what would make the combat more interactive would be something like adding additional input mechanicsms: "Combo Buttons" that you need to press often, "Hold Buttons", buttons that change, things like this. But changing the whole combat system would kill a lot of the playerbase. and doing that with wow2 will make it a whole other game obviously. But I agree here, a lot of the key systems we have right now (holy trinity, boss fights we have right now) will not work with action combat

  9. #37889
    Blizzard needs to stop trying to fix things that aren't broken.

  10. #37890
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Blizzard needs to stop trying to fix things that aren't broken.
    Shareholders love iteration. Whether it's good iteration is irrelevant.

  11. #37891
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Action combat doesn't work for several reasons: all healing specs would need to be gutted. The same about DoT based specs. Every action that needs proper targetting needs to be completely reworked.
    Well here's another hard to swallow pill for you. Specs are not fashionable and neither is the Holy Trinity. You don't really have healers anymore, just DPS classes with support abilities that aren't just self targeting.

  12. #37892
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Specs are not fashionable and neither is the Holy Trinity.
    It doesn't matter what is fashionable in other games, it really works well for WoW, especially the combat system. Sure it could use an overhaul to some extent because of bugginess, but to completely change the game is only going to alienate 99% of players.

  13. #37893
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    Shareholders love iteration. Whether it's good iteration is irrelevant.
    Eh, no. They do not care about nitty gritty. They just want money. You do not see "we changed this and that system" in quarterly update.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Well here's another hard to swallow pill for you. Specs are not fashionable and neither is the Holy Trinity. You don't really have healers anymore, just DPS classes with support abilities that aren't just self targeting.
    That's a gross over exaggeration.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  14. #37894
    Despite getting spoiled with earlier than normal leaks last week, I still hunger for more

  15. #37895
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulggun View Post
    Yeah we have option to fight dragons, demons, conquer and defend land but no, let's rotate a chair for ten hours straight and move a cabinet from one wall to another over and over again. Jesus Christ.
    yea tell that to ffxiv players that spend hours to customize their homes... also housing items crafted by professions are the best sellers! Not to mention limited items from events and such that people go crazy about! Or items need "exalted" reputation to get. Housing will open so many gameplay activities from professions to rep farm to rare boss drops..
    The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  16. #37896
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Despite getting spoiled with earlier than normal leaks last week, I still hunger for more
    Same. Wish I could just fast-forward to April 19th already...

  17. #37897
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Despite getting spoiled with earlier than normal leaks last week, I still hunger for more
    Spoiled how? We only got the title and a blurry photo of a promo image of Aleztrasza xD

  18. #37898
    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    Same. Wish I could just fast-forward to April 19th already...
    I know that as soon as we are all well fed on WoW news, we will instantly start craving more future news like when the beta is starting and when the release is, but I so enjoy leak season and the expansion announcements. I am just greedy

  19. #37899
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Well here's another hard to swallow pill for you. Specs are not fashionable and neither is the Holy Trinity. You don't really have healers anymore, just DPS classes with support abilities that aren't just self targeting.
    the most popular MMOs have trinity... Trinity is the most popular system players want. I like to heal and tank and thats why I never liked games like GW2...
    The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  20. #37900
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Core issue? Half of people coming for launch stay only first month (or months). Do you think they will come when expansion will be presented as glorified patch? Not to mention that on your main you will have to do campaign anyway, so nothing will change there. It's all about appearance, just like with level squish.

    If anything, we should push Blizzard for more and more quality of life stuff for alts, since leveling 10 levels is often shortest part of preparation. And yes, it works, although slowly. Every expac launch is minor setback, but when we look on last patch situation, easily SL>BfA>Legion when we talk about alts.
    Alt catchup is so easy in 9.2, the only way people could be complaining about it in my mind is that they haven't actually done it. You hit 48 or 50 or whatever and go to SL content, you select threads of fate and pick your covenant, get the renown catchup and level however you want. By the time you hit 60 your renown will also be well past 60, which fully unlocks your soulbind. You also have the 200 ilvl conduit catchup, and you can send over a bunch of 226 BoA gear and soul ash/soul cinders (which are in turn purchasable for Cosmic Flux on your main, which if you're playing the patch at all you have far more than you know what to do with). You either run a dungeon or quick torghast wing to get your legendary recipe, or just buy it from Rendle for Soul Cinders (again, you can get this from your main), get a legendary at whatever ilvl works for you (they're pretty cheap on any decently populated realm).

    Doing just "walk here and talk to a vendor" and running a single normal dungeon after hitting 60 can easily put you at 230 ilvl with 60+ renown and ilvl 200 conduits. That's not gonna get you into mythic raiding, but it puts you at a perfectly reasonable spot to start doing M+ (which drops 236 at a +2) or LFR/Normal (LFR drops 239/246).

    And this is all assuming you are a solo player, if you've got friends and/or a guild it's way easier to get gear.

    Honestly, I'm not sure how much easier they could make it, the basically free BoA gear you get is already pushing up pretty close against the entry level gear from M0/LFR, and you even get stuff at that quality from rares in ZM.

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