Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[AOL Instant Messenger]

that is wildly hopeful, i would not dare mark half of what you put here, in honest im speaking the worst/bare minimum, if im wrong then good

I admit I'm being aggressively optimistic. I'm making a few assumptions and withholding the likely infringement on time constraints and resources by Covid-19 and the lawsuits.

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The cynical part of me, for instance, wants to mark No New Races or Class instantly, but then I realize it's the cynical part of me. There's only been two expansions ever that had neither in any capacity, and they haven't been adjacent. I just honestly have no feeling about what alternative is more likely. Like always I want ogres, but would I bet on them? Nothing is making me lean that way.

I guess there are three that I would mark though:
Dragon Isles
Pre-Order Now
Dragon Covenants or Order Halls 2.0

I was initially trying to mark things that I thought were realistic (Dalaran, New Race, Ducks, Dragon Isles and half-World Revamp) but I got carried away in fantasizing. I'm absolutely getting my hopes up and being unrealistic to some extent, but I'm riding the copium until I inevitably am disappointed by the expansion that we get.

I think Dalaran Landing, Lordaeron Revamp and a new class of some kind seem particularly inevitable (realistically Dragonsworn, in my fantasies Dragon), and Dragon Isles seems likely since the expansion is called "Dragonflight".

[Zankai27]

so remove a tool where you set up the setting and characters for endgame stuff? Because if they removed adding a new level cap and just had the zones with quests it would be way bigger of a drag for many people. And unless they put some other incentive (which alts also need) in the quests nobody would do them.

Being ready for endgame from the start just sounds stupid. Its putting the people that did high end previous tier at an advantage, and the point of the increased level cap is to remove that advantage.

As for leveling alts, SL has been boring for that (as someone who levels all classes before the next expac) but not a drag or taking to lang. Takes literally one afternoon. The issue is all the systems for me that I need to do afterwards.

And saying if you enjoy leveling play classic also doesn't make sense, because I love leveling in new expacs to get time to get introduced to the new/spotlight characters, go through the class updates/new system in increments, introduce to some dungeons while leveling, explore the zones, slowly phase out my gear from previous expac and plan on what next

I think we’re misunderstanding.

None of that buildup is dependent on leveling being a factor. Leveling is just a bar that means your character can’t use the same gear as your others yet. They’re not really a functional story tool, and never have been.

Zone and story buildup can be done in a variety of ways.

Picture this:

-We go into Dragonflight at level 60 and there are no additional levels. However, there’s still a major story experience that takes us through each zone and their main story, like Shadowlands. Side quests also exist and reward decent amounts of green gear, gold and cosmetics from full completion, or completion toward any new progression systems. Kind of similar to how mid-step quests in Zereth Mortis work.

-Any story beats and character buildup can and will be done through this process. And since you’ll need to do the story once to approach end game, you’ll still get that whole experience. The levels weren’t the important part of the Shadowlands leveling experience.

-Let’s imagine for a second that they approach demand for tier sets in a different way. Instead of doing leveling gear which is now unnecessary, major story beats reward a piece of a pre-endgame class set you build as you do the main story campaign, similar to something like the Covenant sets or Order Hall sets, giving you something to get and encourage you toward the story. If we are actually getting new classes to play around with, this also gives them a chance to build their aesthetics early.

Now, how would this work on alts? Either you could run the campaign again ala Threads of Fate or they can work towards set pieces via completing world quest content or alt progression content.

But, not having to level means you’re able to approach end game content at your own pace without always having to level. Like as not, it’s discouraging to many with so many alts, and making the initial endgame more accessible is always a win.

That, and it makes no sense to continue adding levels after bothering to level squish. Are we just going to gain 10 levels every expansion? And then inevitably squish again? I think it’s perfectly fine to keep things at 60 and find alternate means of progression, or just base it on gear and quests.

And the reason I bring up Classic is I already established that the levels are easily replaceable or irrelevant to story based progression, so if people just get something out of an ever-increasing level bar, Seasonal Classic will literally always have that.

[Jokubas]

I was initially trying to mark things that I thought were realistic (Dalaran, New Race, Ducks, Dragon Isles and half-World Revamp) but I got carried away in fantasizing. I'm absolutely getting my hopes up and being unrealistic to some extent, but I'm riding the copium until I inevitably am disappointed by the expansion that we get.

I think Dalaran Landing, Lordaeron Revamp and a new class of some kind seem particularly inevitable (realistically Dragonsworn, in my fantasies Dragon), and Dragon Isles seems likely since the expansion is called "Dragonflight".

I find that overthinking these sort of things is sort of my baseline, but you know, maybe I'll try to just put something out there this time.

O|O|O|O|X
X|X|O|X|X
O|X|[]|O|X
X|X|O|O|X
O|O|X|O|O

So that's:
Ogres, Dragon Isles, No More Levels, Pre-Order Now, Account Wide Progression, New Race, Dalaran Lands, New Profession or Profession Revamp, 4th Specs, Alexstrasza Cinematic, and Dragon Covenants or Order Halls 2.0

I don't think all of them will happen, and I think there's a chance some of the other ones will (I think a playable dragon-themed something is likely, but I don't feel good about picking Dragon Knight or Playable Dragons/Dragonkin), but I at least think all of these are possible. I mean, I never would have felt good about marking cross-faction play if it hadn't been announced for 9.2.5, and I don't think any of these are on that level. 4th Specs was the one I felt the least confident about, but it's mostly because it just seems more "safe" to me than picking something like Class Skins for the moment, because I think some sort of extra customization along those lines is coming.

[Vakir]

Unless they drastically redo the aesthetics of the Aspects, no way will they be the covenants. They all look the same.

I can see like...

Fire, glowing "breath of life" style.
Green mist, "overgrowth, plant life" style.
Craggy, rocky themed. Very physical, intimidating, military style. Molten or mineral-style weapons.
Sandy, Middle Eastern inspired vibe. Lots of hoods, desert clothing, loose robes or tunics. Scimatars, hourglasses.
Arcane colored, runes/geometry flickering over the surface, more mage inspired designs. Glowing azure weapons, maybe some frosty elements.

NGL, red has always seemed the hardest for me to come up with ideas for, because the life aspect overlaps a lot with the Green aesthetic and the fiery element overlaps with the molten Black O B S I D I A N aesthetic.

[SniperCT]

I'll be happy when we get Ancients with shoulder mounted Gilnean cannons.

New World Tree in Gilneas confirmed

Could call it Kaldrassil, crown of the stars

[Three Faced Goddess]

My assumption is that the team is merely one that is experimenting with potential future features, rather than working on a guaranteed feature that is itself experimental. Being ex-Classic people lines up with that, too, arguably, because Classic was very much an "is this viable" sort of experiment.

There are a lot of reasons a straightforward World of Warcraft 2 would be an awkward, if not outright terrible idea, but in a vacuum there's so much they could do with it that would be amazing. While World of Warcraft's art style allows it to not look ugly nowadays, a modern game set on Azeroth would still look absolutely amazing by comparison. Being able to start fresh, either with a real time skip or a reboot, could also be a huge breath of fresh air assuming it's done well obviously.

My optimal dream version of a "World of Warcraft 2" though wouldn't even be an MMO. It would be a singleplayer/small-scale-co-op open world RPG. Basically none of the multiplayer elements of MMOs have any appeal for me anymore (World of Warcraft is strongly grandfathered in for me), and all the singleplayer/story elements are held back by being an MMO. You know, something the size of Elden Ring, but being able to have your own place like a Bethesda game, and a plot that could actually have changes happen to the world permanently and not be stuck in a weird mixed up timeline because it has to exist for all players at all levels simultaneously.

My dream World of Warcraft 2 would be a complete reboot back to a time slightly after Warcraft III ended, but much like your version I'd turn it into a single player open world game franchise so the story and lore could progress more naturally with greater cohesion, more satisfying plot developments, stronger/focused worldbuilding and less MMO wibblewobble. I'm much like you are in that I don't really care for the MMO genre that much, but I started playing WoW when I was a young teen and despite all my bitching about how shit the story and lore have become among other things, I loved what WoW was and could be in the future.

[Local Ardenweald Faerie]

New World Tree in Gilneas confirmed

Could call it Kaldrassil, crown of the stars

Gilneans repaying the Night Elves for their generosity in letting them stay in Teldrassil; by letting them plant a World Tree in their home, the two races sharing a home once more. Also clears up any remaining Blight like the original World Trees drove away Saronite.

I would be so happy if something that well written happened.. but sadly, I expect depression for many years to come.

[SniperCT]

Gilneans repaying the Night Elves for their generosity in letting them stay in Teldrassil; by letting them plant a World Tree in their home, the two races sharing a home once more. Also clears up any remaining Blight like the original World Trees drove away Saronite.

I would be so happy if something that well written happened.. but sadly, I expect depression for many years to come.

Oh yeah! It could definitely be a boon to cleaning up that entire part of the continent of blight and plague.

I wonder if off the coast again, or actually inland would be better.

[GabrielKnight]

Haven't read all the pages, so apologies if this has been suggested already...

Regarding the micro classes, assuming of course they're real... what about if they intend to implement them as bodyguards or mercenaries, basically a second character that we can hire? It could be one spec, simple to use and balance, and we could use it for different stuff, including taking control of and just play the game with it. We could gear it, trasmog it, name it, it's basically an extension of our main character, but with a micro class.

[TomatoBisque]

I think we’re misunderstanding.

None of that buildup is dependent on leveling being a factor. Leveling is just a bar that means your character can’t use the same gear as your others yet. They’re not really a functional story tool, and never have been.

Zone and story buildup can be done in a variety of ways.

Picture this:

-We go into Dragonflight at level 60 and there are no additional levels. However, there’s still a major story experience that takes us through each zone and their main story, like Shadowlands. Side quests also exist and reward decent amounts of green gear, gold and cosmetics from full completion, or completion toward any new progression systems. Kind of similar to how mid-step quests in Zereth Mortis work.

-Any story beats and character buildup can and will be done through this process. And since you’ll need to do the story once to approach end game, you’ll still get that whole experience. The levels weren’t the important part of the Shadowlands leveling experience.

-Let’s imagine for a second that they approach demand for tier sets in a different way. Instead of doing leveling gear which is now unnecessary, major story beats reward a piece of a pre-endgame class set you build as you do the main story campaign, similar to something like the Covenant sets or Order Hall sets, giving you something to get and encourage you toward the story. If we are actually getting new classes to play around with, this also gives them a chance to build their aesthetics early.

Now, how would this work on alts? Either you could run the campaign again ala Threads of Fate or they can work towards set pieces via completing world quest content or alt progression content.

But, not having to level means you’re able to approach end game content at your own pace without always having to level. Like as not, it’s discouraging to many with so many alts, and making the initial endgame more accessible is always a win.

That, and it makes no sense to continue adding levels after bothering to level squish. Are we just going to gain 10 levels every expansion? And then inevitably squish again? I think it’s perfectly fine to keep things at 60 and find alternate means of progression, or just base it on gear and quests.

And the reason I bring up Classic is I already established that the levels are easily replaceable or irrelevant to story based progression, so if people just get something out of an ever-increasing level bar, Seasonal Classic will literally always have that.

This is functionally just leveling, but instead of increasing your level from 60 to 70 while questing instead nothing happens which will feel a lot worse for a lot of players.

Literally everything you want for alt catchup could be done with Threads of Fate (in fact, that's what it was originally billed as--being able to get a head start on endgame progression on alts while leveling, but you only get renown which is nice but you get so much regardless it doesn't really matter). They can 100% make alts a better experience without making a huge fucking change that could potentially be really bad for the game

[Vakir]

The only argument I have against not increasing the level cap is...man, we really need another talent row. Unless they put that behind some arbitrary main quest gate after you've completed all the zones, which would feel deeply unnatural.

The problem is also that some people choose to level in their own ways (i.e. some people like to run more dungeons with friends even if it isn't as efficient) and I'm not sure how that would fit into the idea of not getting concrete progress through that.

[Izalla]

They whole micro-class thing sounds like it was ripped off from a concept that appeared on the forums around the same time where professions gave you an optional 4th spec

Edit : What a surprise, just checked and it was posted a day after the thread I am talking about

I'm still 11 pages behind right now but how has no one replied to this yet? A name that was already guessed in a thread that was a list of name guesses, a concept potentially copied from a thread posted only a day before, and the whole thing reads like a very specific wish list? Can you link to the thread in question? (If you already have and I will see that in a few more pages just disregard this)

[Zankai27]

This is functionally just leveling, but instead of increasing your level from 60 to 70 while questing instead nothing happens which will feel a lot worse for a lot of players.

Literally everything you want for alt catchup could be done with Threads of Fate (in fact, that's what it was originally billed as--being able to get a head start on endgame progression on alts while leveling, but you only get renown which is nice but you get so much regardless it doesn't really matter). They can 100% make alts a better experience without making a huge fucking change that could potentially be really bad for the game

It’s not the same at all; you could have a set of gear pieced together by what I suggested, after each major zone story point, that would all be competitive with early “max level” blue gear without having to fuss about the scaling of gear after a levelup vs. what you already got.

If the only real value of leveling is the dopamine you get when you get a level, they can find another way to recreate that without having to endlessly scale levels back every 10 years.

Haven't read all the pages, so apologies if this has been suggested already...

Regarding the micro classes, assuming of course they're real... what about if they intend to implement them as bodyguards or mercenaries, basically a second character that we can hire? It could be one spec, simple to use and balance, and we could use it for different stuff, including taking control of and just play the game with it. We could gear it, trasmog it, name it, it's basically an extension of our main character, but with a micro class.

I’m not really sure what about this is appealing; it sounds like a pet we keep around that has vague NPC powers. It’s a lot more appealing as an actual class we can play. The leaker really fucked up calling them micro-classes and not just 1-spec classes, which is what they then went on to describe them as. Not some NPC, not “a class skin for an existing class”, not “a shared spec between armor types” (gross), simple, single spec classes meant to give us access to a variety of different fantasies and new things to play.

People keep making the concept more complicated than it is under the guise of it sounding “easier to swallow”

[deviantcultist]

If they do make a Dragoon/Dragon Knight class, I hope it's close to what FF Dragoon and Dragon Age Inquisition's Reaver are and less of a heroic Dragonborn character.

[Chickat]

All I can think of is a Flappy Bird reskin.
Oh wait, they did that already.

Flappy Alexstrazsa

[Cosmic Janitor]

I gotta admit, it's been over a week now since the website code leak and I still can't help but think that Dragonflight just sounds stupid. It doesn't have a that ring of a proper expansion name to it. Wold of Warcraft: Dragonflight, there is just something off about it.

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If they do make a Dragoon/Dragon Knight class, I hope it's close to what FF Dragoon and Dragon Age Inquisition's Reaver are and less of a heroic Dragonborn character.

Gotta agree. If the class were to exist I hope it would be either a spear wielding knight, like the draconids of the flight or go full on into hand to hand combat while channeling the claws of a dragon.

[Chickat]

Make it Naga and we have a deal. I mean they do look a bit draconis, especially the males.

Id be ok with naga, but it probably wouldn't be as hype as dragon race.

[Revamp Man]

so the new class would definitely be dragonsworn in some case
"but the leak says 4 micro classes"
if you buy the leak thats on you but then you would have to buy into the EoA leak because it hits more points than the dragonflight leak

it would have to be a hero class so it can be introduced in azeroth during the story of SL and wouldnt be playable until after prepatch so they wouldnt have to make 4 new class abilities for them and im assuming prepatch makes the covenant abilities only exist in the generic versions
so no spear of bastion but yes steward.
"why would it be a hero class the other hero classes got squished"
Because it exists after the squish and storywise after SL so having it at a lower level means it can experience Legion which doesnt make sense because theres no class questline in legion which was THE CORE STORY.

The new level cap is going to be 70
"why squish levels if you are just going to keep increasing the cap?"
because you can buy about 10 years of time before needing a squish and the level squish was needed to cover the 9 leveling possibilities between classic-bfa
leveling also provides a sense of progression whether people accept it or not you can see the difference between a level 50 and a level 60 and the power gap is bigger than just gear.

heritage armor and everything is going to continue as well
"but we got heritage armor via warfronts"
no no we did not we just got armor that fit a racial theme

[Zankai27]

I gotta admit, it's been over a week now since the website code leak and I still can't help but think that Dragonflight just sounds stupid. It doesn't have a that ring of a proper expansion name to it. Wold of Warcraft: Dragonflight, there is just something off about it.

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I dunno, I’m honestly a big fan; I think it rolls pretty well, and tells us we’re in for a Dragony good time.

Doesn’t get worse than “Battle for Azeroth”, IMO

so the new class would definitely be dragonsworn in some case
"but the leak says 4 micro classes"
if you buy the leak thats on you but then you would have to buy into the EoA leak because it hits more points than the dragonflight leak

it would have to be a hero class so it can be introduced in azeroth during the story of SL and wouldnt be playable until after prepatch so they wouldnt have to make 4 new class abilities for them and im assuming prepatch makes the covenant abilities only exist in the generic versions
so no spear of bastion but yes steward.
"why would it be a hero class the other hero classes got squished"
Because it exists after the squish and storywise after SL so having it at a lower level means it can experience Legion which doesnt make sense because theres no class questline in legion which was THE CORE STORY.

The new level cap is going to be 70
"why squish levels if you are just going to keep increasing the cap?"
because you can buy about 10 years of time before needing a squish and the level squish was needed to cover the 9 leveling possibilities between classic-bfa
leveling also provides a sense of progression whether people accept it or not you can see the difference between a level 50 and a level 60 and the power gap is bigger than just gear.

heritage armor and everything is going to continue as well
"but we got heritage armor via warfronts"
no no we did not we just got armor that fit a racial theme

I’m probably going to regret responding to this, but are you OK my dude? You rambled about a lot of different things there and I think you need to take a step back; none of what you said is 100% required or necessary.

[TheAceofHearth]

Yes...and?

This is true today. If you and a friend are both leveling healers, you can't both queue as healers together. The answer is...drumroll...don't level healers together. My wife and I have done this many times over the years, and it isn't difficult at all:

Me: What do you want to make?
Wife: I'm making X this time.
Me: Okay, I'll make Y or Z to complement your pick.
Wife: You better!!

See...simple.

O honey, current classes HAVE other specs to use for queues, the micro classes Don't have other specs for other roles. IF you and your husband's boyfriend role Paladins, you can still level in LFD regardless, because Paladins can be all 3 roles. Heck, if you and your boyfriend and your wife's boyfriend all three decided to roll as hunters, you can join LFD together too. But a Minstrel and another Minstrel would not have that luxury.