Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Revamp Man]

Just wondering why it's not being compared to 8.1 which was a raid and mini raid.

because they dont wanna be wrong

- - - Updated - - -

It's hilarious this community can't decide if next patch is grind or nothing to do, so they decided to bitch about both.

i mean if players are complaining about korthia being a required grind then they are just wrong

the only downside of the patch for me is the garbage recrafting of legendaries
because nothing says "meaningful choice" more than them screwing it up because they dont wanna do tier sets

[Dracullus]

I fail to see how 8.2 had less content than 9.1?

Slightly less instanced bosses, signifant less story (looks like it's pattern, 7.1 and 8.1 had much more story than X.2/X.3 patches as well). Of course 8.2 had zones and a lot more sandbox content like kill this rare, do that event.

Imo talent of art team was wasted for many X.2 and X.3 patches when they have so little story. I don't see big difference between farming rare in Nazjatar and revamped Uldum.

[infinitemeridian]

One raid with an aesthetic that people are tired of and still no class sets (and no new sets really, since they're just the legendary skins).
A final boss with a story outcome most people will probably hate.
A small subzone carrying forward an aesthetic people are tired of, with zero creativity or novel ideas and a bunch of bear / horse reskins (YAWN).
A dungeon that is dead on arrival for most players and will be run once or twice max.
A convoluted new system that nobody asked for in the form of Domination gems, which add zero depth to any specs and are just boring passives, plus don't seem to have been tested very well seeing all the problems that are arising.
More focus on the e-sport mindset that has plagued this game for over a decade now (raider io system).
Torghast changes that address 0 of the problems.

And...that's it. Yes, you could argue 9.1 is the biggest .1 patch of all time - but you cannot tell me that this is great content or that it's going to stem the major bleeding and negative press that WoW is experiencing right now. Wow, great, you can fly in the 9.0 zones, boy I love that I can now do a WQ in 5 minutes instead of 10 (still can't fly between zones). M+? Enjoy grinding the exact same dungeons with the exact same loot with the exact same vault nonsense and a reskinned mount reward - but you get a teleport this time!

This patch is extremely phoned in - the fact that Sylvanas's mythic mount model is yet another reskin just shows how uninspired Blizz is.

[Edward Wu]

As someone who hasn't been subbed for 2 months, I have the rare ability to look at Shadowlands from a outside perspective.

Perusing YouTube, I'm seeing everyone pile on the hate bandwagon of having to re-farm legendary escape if you get a piece of gear in that same slot, that happens to contain a domination socket.

People actively playing are complaining about the gri d itself rather than the gameplay loop involving the grind. Torghast is the main culprit here and not the concept of the grind itself.

People who still like and play Shadowlands keep attacking the symptoms rather than the disease at the root, which is that SL is awful at its core conceptualization.

Addicts will disagree.

[Sondrelk]

One raid with an aesthetic that people are tired of and still no class sets (and no new sets really, since they're just the legendary skins).
A final boss with a story outcome most people will probably hate.
A small subzone carrying forward an aesthetic people are tired of, with zero creativity or novel ideas and a bunch of bear / horse reskins (YAWN).
A dungeon that is dead on arrival for most players and will be run once or twice max.
A convoluted new system that nobody asked for in the form of Domination gems, which add zero depth to any specs and are just boring passives, plus don't seem to have been tested very well seeing all the problems that are arising.
More focus on the e-sport mindset that has plagued this game for over a decade now (raider io system).
Torghast changes that address 0 of the problems.

And...that's it. Yes, you could argue 9.1 is the biggest .1 patch of all time - but you cannot tell me that this is great content or that it's going to stem the major bleeding and negative press that WoW is experiencing right now. Wow, great, you can fly in the 9.0 zones, boy I love that I can now do a WQ in 5 minutes instead of 10 (still can't fly between zones). M+? Enjoy grinding the exact same dungeons with the exact same loot with the exact same vault nonsense and a reskinned mount reward - but you get a teleport this time!

This patch is extremely phoned in - the fact that Sylvanas's mythic mount model is yet another reskin just shows how uninspired Blizz is.

The raid uses a variation of the Torghast aesthetic for some parts, but mostly in entirely new ways. Players are not triggered by metallic grays, but rather by monotonous hallways. The raid is unique with interesting bosses. The fact that the walls look vaguely similar to a different form of instanced content is the most pathetic complaint I have heard.

It's a story outcome many will hate, but it is a boss players are looking forward to defeating in a boss fight that looks suitably climactic. At worst the story is laughably bad with players curious to see how it fucks up next.

Korthia looks different enough from the Maw. Besides, most people are tired of the Maw mechanics, not necessarily how it looks. And the mechanics of the Maw are set to change almost right after starting the new patch.

A dungeon that provides new content for M+, and additionally has stuff to be farmed like mounts and transmog.

Domination gems that add spice to gearing that players think is boring, with the worst casualty being having to farm a bit more Soul Cinders to make a new legendary.

In-game raider io, removing the power of an add-on and placing players on a more even playing field when the community already damaged itself.

Torghast changes that changes stuff and adds tangible rewards in the form of transmog and more mounts. Additionally a talent system that has been proven good in the past and which addresses problems in the initial version.

Nothing will stem the bad press from WoW, because the community has gotten so used to complaining that it can no longer effectively agree on even basic questions like whether to have more or less open world content since any change in either direction is taken as effective proof of WoW being dead.


Also, Sylvanas' mythic drop mount being a reskin? It's a high definition mount that is entirely thematic to her character and which has not been used for a new mount in years. The last one added of this type of mount was in WoD as a reward for timewalking. That was over 5 years ago.

[infinitemeridian]

The raid uses a variation of the Torghast aesthetic for some parts, but mostly in entirely new ways. Players are not triggered by metallic grays, but rather by monotonous hallways. The raid is unique with interesting bosses. The fact that the walls look vaguely similar to a different form of instanced content is the most pathetic complaint I have heard.

I'm sure the raid will be fine - they've been on rails for years now. Variations on the Torghast / Maw theme is not going to make you love the aesthetic if you're already tired of it.

Korthia looks different enough from the Maw. Besides, most people are tired of the Maw mechanics, not necessarily how it looks. And the mechanics of the Maw are set to change almost right after starting the new patch.

Similar to the raid, it's still very Maw-esque in terms of aesthetics, even if it's a variation. I personally think no matter how you slice it, the zone is boring and ugly. Patch zones have never been that great looking though, so par for the course. Still doesn't help that the zone mechanics aren't that interesting or creative - world content has never been Blizz's strong suit and I guess they need to do an expansion to address that.

A dungeon that provides new content for M+, and additionally has stuff to be farmed like mounts and transmog.

You have to wait for 9.2 or possibly 9.1.5 to do it on M+. Sure, maybe transmog, but when you get like 5 different reskins of the disc mount, it cheapens it and will probably have people not care all that much.

Domination gems that add spice to gearing that players think is boring, with the worst casualty being having to farm a bit more Soul Cinders to make a new legendary.

I personally don't care that much about the legendary issue, but it goes to show how little foresight Blizz has with these systems (which they told us they wouldn't add any more during the patch content, yet here we are). Everything seems so ad-hoc and not given much attention. The system is boring, I don't see how it "add[s] spice". The gems are just damage bonuses, nothing is spec / class specific, none of it changes how you play. It's a fire and forget system that has some negative consequences for players. Nobody asked for this system.

In-game raider io, removing the power of an add-on and placing players on a more even playing field when the community already damaged itself.

The solution is to gear the game away from the go go go e-sport mindset that Blizz has fostered for years and now is apparently doubling down on.

Torghast changes that changes stuff and adds tangible rewards in the form of transmog and more mounts. Additionally a talent system that has been proven good in the past and which addresses problems in the initial version.

It still doesn't address that Torghast is a boring slog, there's not enough anima powers still, and the ones you get aren't that interesting. The talent system is fine, but it should have been there at launch and really just makes it less annoying to do, not more fun. And oh boy, more mount reskins and pets most people don't care about. The transmog is cool though, but wish there was more of it.

Nothing will stem the bad press from WoW, because the community has gotten so used to complaining that it can no longer effectively agree on even basic questions like whether to have more or less open world content since any change in either direction is taken as effective proof of WoW being dead.

Nothing can stop the bad press because this expansion is extremely phoned in and uninspired. Blizz clearly has no vision of what they want the game or where it should go, and they're just throwing darts at the wall hoping something sticks. After a terrible expansion, they needed to knock it out of the park and SL has been milquetoast at best.

Also, Sylvanas' mythic drop mount being a reskin? It's a high definition mount that is entirely thematic to her character and which has not been used for a new mount in years. The last one added of this type of mount was in WoD as a reward for timewalking. That was over 5 years ago.

It's a reskin of the dragonhawk / ray models we got in Nazj / Argus. Same skeleton, new textures / 3d stuff = reskin still. It's an ugly mount that probably will come with the same problems those mounts have, where you're player sits at an angle where they look like they're falling off and stare at the sky.

[Yarathir]

I don't mind that the new raid reuses the legendary armor sets. I just wish they'd taken the development weight they lost by not having to design entirely new sets to give them some improvements.

[Raetary]

It's an ugly mount

It's not tho.
I like it, and i imagine a lot of others do too.

You personally not liking it isn't an argument, and the mount being a dragonhawk isn't an indication of anything whatso-fucking-ever.

[Nyel]

And...that's it. Yes, you could argue 9.1 is the biggest .1 patch of all time.

What does this even mean? It's a .2 patch disguised as a .1 patch and it should be rated as such. And as a .2 patch it's not even one of the biggest ones, it's just a decently sized content patch, nothing more or less. Both 7.2 and 8.2 had more going for them than 9.1.

[infinitemeridian]

What does this even mean? It's a .2 patch disguised as a .1 patch and it should be rated as such. And as a .2 patch it's not even one of the biggest ones, it's just a decently sized content patch, nothing more or less. Both 7.2 and 8.2 had more going for them than 9.1.

1 == 2 ??? Flawless logic here. Let me guess, you're calling it .2 because you don't expect a .3? I'm judging it as a 9.1 patch because we don't know if there will be a 9.3 (though there probably will be).

[Nyel]

1 == 2 ??? Flawless logic here. Let me guess, you're calling it .2 because you don't expect a .3? I'm judging it as a 9.1 patch because we don't know if there will be a 9.3 (though there probably will be).

.1 patches are usually rather small and don't offer a lot of new stuff. They do not contain new zones or catch up gear, .2 patches usually contain that stuff. Guess what, this time the .1 patch contains both of that. I'm calling 9.1 a .2 patch because it's exactly that when it comes to gameplay and content.

And yes, I absolutely do not expect a 9.3 as this would delay the next expansion at least until Q2/23, which is absurd to think of.

[Yarathir]

Honestly, I don't think Korthia is a marvel of game development.

[TheFirstOnes]

What does this even mean? It's a .2 patch disguised as a .1 patch and it should be rated as such. And as a .2 patch it's not even one of the biggest ones, it's just a decently sized content patch, nothing more or less. Both 7.2 and 8.2 had more going for them than 9.1.

No. It’s a .1 patch.

- - - Updated - - -

Legion had (arguably) a bigger .1 tbh. And it doesn’t even have a new zone.

- - - Updated - - -

.1 patches are usually rather small and don't offer a lot of new stuff. They do not contain new zones or catch up gear, .2 patches usually contain that stuff. Guess what, this time the .1 patch contains both of that. I'm calling 9.1 a .2 patch because it's exactly that when it comes to gameplay and content.

And yes, I absolutely do not expect a 9.3 as this would delay the next expansion at least until Q2/23, which is absurd to think of.

That just means 9.1 has the stuff of a .2 patch. Does mean it is a .2 patch.

:/

- - - Updated - - -

People really love to use half-baked logic huh?

[Makabreska]

People really love to use half-baked logic huh?

W/e fits their wild theories they have been selling as facts for half a year already.

[TheFirstOnes]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAA

[hipolnalrt]

Hey all - I know this is going to be shot down, and I've mentioned this in other threads, but I wanted to put my thoughts down.

I think the next expansion is going to be some sort of time travel expansion, likely with dragons. The Infinite Dragonflight will be involved as one of the antagonists. This will allow for a storyline involving bringing Yrel to our timeline setting up 11.0 as the Light vs Void expansion. I'm sure this will also have some sort of larger cosmos enemy as the 'true' enemy of the expansion.

Why do I think this?

1. The new statue that whispers in 9.1. A decent chunk of these whispers mention something to do with time:

Everliving Statuette: Hope. Betrayal. Sacrifice. Faces change. The tale does not.
Everliving Statuette: So many secrets, so little time left to share them.
Everliving Statuette: A city of secrets. A history of lies.
Everliving Statuette: The seventh covets what the six hold fast. The fulcrum wavers. All will be undone.

That last whisper, I believe, is referring to a possible 7th cosmic force. I believe this seventh cosmic force is Time. Right now Temporal magic is relegated to the domain of Order, which is why it 'covets what the six hold fast'. But, if the First Ones created the cosmic forces, there must've been a time before the creation of these when they didn't exist, so Time had to exist before Order. The Tazavesh Lore Book in the new dungeon also brings up the idea that there is a seventh cosmic force that existed before the 6 that where the First Ones existed. This seventh force allowed for the ordering of the 6 cosmic forces we know about.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/tazaves...-of-the-322938

2. NPC Hint - Timecap'n Hooktail

In the new dungeon in 9.1, one of the bosses is an Infinite Dragon. This implies there is some sort of connection between the Brokers, Korthia, and the Infinite Dragonflight.

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/pirate-...ilities-321856

3. Non-Combat Pet hint - Timeless Mechanical Dragonling

Buried in the patch notes for 9.1 is this new non-combat pet. It's going to be sold by the same NPC that sells other WoW anniversary items in the Caverns of Time. It looks like it costs the same currency as well. So, we can conclude that this will likely be a reward for the next anniversary. It's flavor text is:

Dragons come in all types of temporal classification -- timeless, time-lost, and even infinite.

Why would this be the reward for this anniversary? Generally the rewards are connected to current or past content. Maybe we can expect some kind of announcement the anniversary this year. Additionally the end of the flavor text, "even infinite" seems to have special emphasis.

What would be a better way to celebrate a 10.0 of World of Warcraft than to have a time travel expansion where we can potentially relive some of the best moments in Warcraft history?

World of Warcraft: Infinite.

Thanks for your time.

https://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=179125/t...cal-dragonling

[Raetary]

snip
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAA

I don't get it. what's funny about that picture?

[Sondrelk]

I'm sure the raid will be fine - they've been on rails for years now. Variations on the Torghast / Maw theme is not going to make you love the aesthetic if you're already tired of it.



Similar to the raid, it's still very Maw-esque in terms of aesthetics, even if it's a variation. I personally think no matter how you slice it, the zone is boring and ugly. Patch zones have never been that great looking though, so par for the course. Still doesn't help that the zone mechanics aren't that interesting or creative - world content has never been Blizz's strong suit and I guess they need to do an expansion to address that.


You have to wait for 9.2 or possibly 9.1.5 to do it on M+. Sure, maybe transmog, but when you get like 5 different reskins of the disc mount, it cheapens it and will probably have people not care all that much.



I personally don't care that much about the legendary issue, but it goes to show how little foresight Blizz has with these systems (which they told us they wouldn't add any more during the patch content, yet here we are). Everything seems so ad-hoc and not given much attention. The system is boring, I don't see how it "add[s] spice". The gems are just damage bonuses, nothing is spec / class specific, none of it changes how you play. It's a fire and forget system that has some negative consequences for players. Nobody asked for this system.



The solution is to gear the game away from the go go go e-sport mindset that Blizz has fostered for years and now is apparently doubling down on.



It still doesn't address that Torghast is a boring slog, there's not enough anima powers still, and the ones you get aren't that interesting. The talent system is fine, but it should have been there at launch and really just makes it less annoying to do, not more fun. And oh boy, more mount reskins and pets most people don't care about. The transmog is cool though, but wish there was more of it.



Nothing can stop the bad press because this expansion is extremely phoned in and uninspired. Blizz clearly has no vision of what they want the game or where it should go, and they're just throwing darts at the wall hoping something sticks. After a terrible expansion, they needed to knock it out of the park and SL has been milquetoast at best.



It's a reskin of the dragonhawk / ray models we got in Nazj / Argus. Same skeleton, new textures / 3d stuff = reskin still. It's an ugly mount that probably will come with the same problems those mounts have, where you're player sits at an angle where they look like they're falling off and stare at the sky.

The raid probalby won't make people love the aesthetic, but a raid rarely does. The point you tried to make was what the raid was Dead on Arrival simply because it shared superficial similarities to a contentious piece of content, which only narrowly escapes being called absurd because the community has shown it is willing to complain about literally everything.

Some people will love the new zone for looking like the Maw except with better mechanics, some will hate it. This would then be no different from how some people hate Vashj'ir with a passion and some consider it their most favorite zone by far. Korthia looks like it fits the general Maw aesthetic, but is also different enough to make it clear it is not just made by copy-pasted Maw assets.

5 different recolors of hte same mount is rarely a problem really. The only times I ever hear someone complain about mount recolors is when they express disappointment over a specific one not being available. Unless the mount is really, really generic and bland in coloration then people will almost instantly spot the one that requires time and effort to get, and that is if they care at all.

The gems add something. It's tier sets-lite. At worst they are items with "Equip: Deal X% more damage". Some players enjoy this kind of stuff, some players don't. Since when has gear been improved by being flat stick sticks anyways?

So your solution for M+ the gamemode lots of players enjoy and dedicate their WoW time to is to remove it? That doesnt seem very conducive to giving the impression Blizzard is listening ot the playerbase.

So again your revolutionary solution to improve Torghast is to not attempt to fix it since its broken? I am confused on the mechanics of that line of logic.
Yes Torghast could have been better, but so could literally any system. Should Blizzard just have scrapped Mythic+ because the initial version in Legion had room for improvement?


Also I have to be honest. How is Shadowlands the final straw for Blizzard where they clearly phoned it in? Either the expansion is overly ambitious and failed miserably, or its boring and uninspired. It can't be both.
Besides, what part of Shadowlands is the one that really proves Blizzard was particularly lazy? Was it the attempt at improvements on the daily Emissary model? Was it the new Torghast system? Was it the wide-spanning covenants?

If your argument is that Shadowlands is boring because the theme is terrible then I can agree on that, but going by the forum posts 2+ years back I was clearly in a minority on it being a bad idea. And if the forums were all adamant that Shadowlands was a great idea then who am I to argue? Clearly Blizzard should just listen to their playerbase at all times, except of course when its a bad idea, in that case they should ignore them.


The Dragonhawk is a model that is closely related to the Blood Elves. Sylvanas was a Blood Elf. This is a high-quality Dragonhawk model you get from Sylvanas.
The argument that mounts don't always look good is true and all, but I don't really get what you want to get from arguing it. Are you saying that Blizzard should have not given a thematically fitting mount?

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, I don't think Korthia is a marvel of game development.

Well what do you expect? When Blizzard tries ot make a unique zone the playerbase revolts. Just look at how many consider Revendreth to be the spawn of Satan because it dares to not make the zone navigable in a straight line across.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

As someone who hasn't been subbed for 2 months

Is this the new "as a vegan ..."?

[Sondrelk]

-snip-

I would be down for that. Dragons and timetravel. Seems like it would be quite fun and with lots of interesting opportunities for instanced content and storytelling.