Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Cosmic Janitor]

They pulled it about a day later.

Streisand Effect is a hell of a drug, though.

Imagine if it was just a forgotten/canceled april fools joke and now we've had people hype themselves with a dragon expansion only to get something else entirely.

[Bsirk]

Imagine if it was just a forgotten/canceled april fools joke and now we've had people hype themselves with a dragon expansion only to get something else entirely.

I actually would love this! It would be the biggest troll that I have seen in YEARS. I'm sitting here smiling at my keyboard just thinking about it.

[Black Rider]

This kind of post comes around often in this community, whether or not it be on Reddit, Twitter or here in the hype thread. I have some opinions on posts like this and seeing I'm parting ways with the community anyways what better time than this to share said opinions.

I don't think this way of binary thinking/exaggeration is constructive to this thread, the community or the game in general. Classifying people as either defenders or haters isn't and has never been helpful in the slightest. Nor do I think have I seen anyone actually saying BfA and Shadowlands have been "fucking great and amazing".

The implication that Activision Blizzard, and soon to be Microsoft, being a huge company makes them not care about the game isn't fair at all as there's many other companies/studios, even those that are now part of Microsoft, that still care about their games. WoW might not be as big of a priority for the company as it used to be, but it is also a very old game at this point and the amount of resources they're still sticking into it surprises me (which is not neccesarily a good thing).

As for listening to player feedback, Blizzard has listened to various things over the course of this expansion, most of which were listed by Dracullus here. Whether or not they listened to the right things, enough things or even made the right decisions based on feedback is definitely up for debate.

There is also the widely-hated Community Council (which for transparency reasons I am a member of), whether or not it is a PR move and whether or not it is helping, which has been shining a light on certain issues, some of which have been answered with actual changes. In my opinion it is still something they're not utilizing enough or even handling correctly, but 10.0 Alpha/Beta will cast the final verdict on the council (for me) as that is when the answers to most of the feedback would show up or (what people are expecting) end up being ignored.

The game has a very passionate fanbase, most of which have spent many years playing and caring about the game. I understand that when things aren't as fun as they used to be, or when you feel like Blizzard is actively destroying something you love about it (e.g. lore) it sucks to have invested so much time into something and it ending up like that. Shadowlands definitely hasn't been as fun compared to previous expansions for me either, with the exclusion of some of the alt-friendly changes they've done and Torghast (which I enjoyed right up to the current ilvl wall casuals like me cant climb over).

Anyways, end of rant, sorry for the arguably off-topic post but I needed to get this out of my brain.

I would clap if it was not internet.
Great points!

[Nymrohd]

On the subject of Turalyon I think there is a perfectly reasonable apprehension among alliance fans that he will be hit with the villain bat. We saw it happen with Garrosh and with Sylvanas.

I insist that the obsession of a segment of the community that Light=Fascism does not fit the lore but absolutely fits Blizzard's narrative. The lore does not actually support it and there is far too much ambivalence for the limited examples shown but Blizzard has not done nuance in a long while. I still hold some hope with Turalyon because a) the lore again does not support it. The man is in no way a zealot. If you can keep yourself from being brainwashed after millenia and still accept your Void wife and be willing to work with a demon for the greater good, you are not a zealot. b) because while they cannot take feedback from community reception of stories, they should be able to take it in the grand scheme and the villain batting of faction leaders was never well received. Now they might take the "feedback" that the Alliance should have it happen to them but that has nothing to do with people liking the plot, just angry Horde fans who want their chance at a moral high ground. I don't know anyone in the community who cares about lore that has found any faction war as cathartic or found their conclusions satisfactory.

And yes, I don't think there was any reason Sylvanas had to end up the villain. If anything they could have had BfA move differently and make Sylvanas a leader of the Horde who makes desperate choices in desperate times and actually cares about the Horde (would be cool in such a version to show her refusing to let another Silvermoon fall so to speak). Make the war not the result of Zovaal's manipulations but N'zoth's (in Cataclysm there was a plot to have infilitrators in both factions but it was much diminished to less important NPCs with Benedictus never doing anything in game till the dungeon; imagine if far more recognizable NPCs ended up being twilight cultists). Still make Sylvanas N'zoth's pawn in a way by having her Val'kyr guide her to greater atrocities. And make the villain for BfA BOLVAR. Would fit with the characterization in Legion, would make the interactions with Anduin far more striking. Perhaps even the start of the xpac could stay the same with Sylvanas pulling an Illidan and trying to force our hand to fight Death because she figures it out by the end of BfA. I won't even talk about Garrosh because it's been talked to death. We all saw what could have been in Stonetalon and elsewhere. It was all a "miscommunication" . . .

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So you're saying there's a chance...

There absolutely is a chance. yes mobile games usually don't have multiple editions, what with being F2P most of the time. But Blizzard has not done a mobile game before. For all we know, Dragonflight is a flight simulator that lets you fly around Azeroth using different dragons

[Syegfryed]

I'm not so sure he's staying down there until she's finished, but honestly, it's kind of a fitting temporary end to their story together. And maybe he will stay until they're finished, and it will be sooner than expected.

they should not even have "a story" together to begin with, it feels dirty, all this thing of they being this close, its just don't fit at all.

Besides, it was supposed to be her torment and punishment, to pay for her crimes, which was already a bland and easygoing sentence that rly didn't cover for all the shit she has done, now she get to have her buddy to help and pass time, making people go wild with fanfics.

Its also a lame way to get him off of the game, lame and cheap, they want to use turalyion sure, it doesn't need for him to be in maw, just not use him, let him deal with his kingdom, but they think they have to work with those characters because "main protagonists of wow" or something.

But i guess it does fit the shadowlands, an awful ending for an awful story, poetry maybe, but it feels like they let the can of garbage open on purpose to rummage on it again, two expansions from now they will come back, maybe with a child.

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Turalyon's character just doesn't fit the whisper about him, he's a 1k+ year old human who the "craziest" recent thing he did was attack illidan after he blew up his mommy xe'ra, which is k.

You forget how this game handle characters? character assassination is something so constant that is normal to expect, they will totally ignore that and make him go crazy because "in reality Turalyion always hated orcs and the horde for the first and second war", or, "the light made me do it, or the light is demanding and they are always right" regardless of what he was.

[LalaGamer]

They pulled it about a day later.

Streisand Effect is a hell of a drug, though.

So this makes it legit ??

[Syegfryed]

I insist that the obsession of a segment of the community that Light=Fascism does not fit the lore but absolutely fits Blizzard's narrative. The lore does not actually support it and there is far too much ambivalence for the limited examples shown but Blizzard has not done nuance in a long while. I still hold some hope with Turalyon because a) the lore again does not support it.

There is plenty of tidbits that make the Light a problem enough to be a villain, the scarlet crusade is being doing that for years and now we have Yrel going full tyrant, this is something that makes sense with a "lawful good" standpoint if you take RPG alignment as a base, which by no means says you don't do bad things in the name of "law", rules or a greater good

In wow its pretty safe to say forces(the 5 magic types) are neither inherently good or evil, but could go in a range of chaotic, neutral or lawful, and depending on many factors/users it can be a force of good, evil or even neutral.

You could think nature is a force of good, but in draenor nature was actually killing and devouring the world, and would kill itself later, nature there was a force chaotic evil, if it was not by the titan (a force of order/neutral) to strike the balance everything would be lost.

[ercarp]

There absolutely is a chance. yes mobile games usually don't have multiple editions, what with being F2P most of the time. But Blizzard has not done a mobile game before. For all we know, Dragonflight is a flight simulator that lets you fly around Azeroth using different dragons

Another thing worth mentioning is that the code in the JS is written the exact same way as the code for Shadowlands.

It also includes store information. Product IDs and such. Why would they put a mobile game on their online store (which is usually only accessed via PC)?

I think I'm dropping the chances of it being a mobile game all the way down to 0%. I just don't see it happening now that I think about it.

[BaumanKing]

the scarlet crusade is being doing that

Scarlet is an example of bad people who abuse the Light due to demon manipulation. The Light is not the villain in this story.

[Syegfryed]

I think they've set Lordaeron up to host a Game of Thrones-like expansion, to be honest. A number of small "Lords" warring for the throne on a continent where there's a power vacuum.

Nope, not gonna happen, first, there is not even that many "small lords", second, we already know turalyin is going to take the spot, third, Wow writers can't write something like that, isn't engaging nor fun in a game.

[LIST][*]Quel'thalas leaves the Horde, because of the fragmentation happening among the Forsaken and Sylvanas no longer acting as a link to the remaining races on the Horde. Sin'dorei and Ren'dorei can still access the city through secret enclaves. Their primary charge as they see it now lies in protecting the Sunwell from those who would seek to claim and abuse its powers.

This is not going to happen, sylvanas and her loyalists wasnot the remaining link to the horde since ages ago.

Why in the ass they would let the traitors, that the blood elves banish to access the city again? more corrupted than ever with the power they said they should not use?

Why this nonsense still comes up now and then is beyond me.

[*]Gilneas leaves the Alliance, because Genn doesn't see eye to eye with the new king Turalyon. The nobles of Stormwind want to launch a crusade to reclaim the north, commanded by Turalyon. Genn has learned from Anduin and wants peace for his people and the chance to rebuild.

That is not going to happen either?

Like, we had countless of years, showing how those races grow close than ever, why they would leave for petty things?

[*]The Undead have rebuilt a few locations around Tirisfal and want to reclaim the Undercity. Calia Menethil is their leader, but there is an internal power struggle with some believing she is in the pockets of the Alliance. Taelia Fordragon will be involved in this story, and some would have her claim the throne.

"some"

Everyone know it is, even the players, thats why nobody who play forsaken or horde want her

[Nymrohd]

Another thing worth mentioning is that the code in the JS is written the exact same way as the code for Shadowlands.

It also includes store information. Product IDs and such. Why would they put a mobile game on their online store (which is usually only accessed via PC)?

I think I'm dropping the chances of it being a mobile game all the way down to 0%. I just don't see it happening now that I think about it.

Your sarcasm detector must be really broken

[Syegfryed]

Scarlet is an example of bad people who abuse the Light due to demon manipulation. The Light is not the villain in this story.

That is what im saying. Light is not good or bad, is just "lawful", a lawful force can be good, neutral or evil depending on many factors(people using it, quantity, how is used...).

And even as lawful good, it can still do evil things/commit atrocities, if they think, in their conception, is good. Thats why i think an expansion with Light as villain is totally ok.

I see wow cosmology like this:

[ercarp]

Your sarcasm detector must be really broken

Nope. I was just elaborating further on the general point that it could be a mobile game. A "dragon flight simulator" is obviously a joke.

[Nymrohd]

[*]Quel'thalas leaves the Horde, because of the fragmentation happening among the Forsaken and Sylvanas no longer acting as a link to the remaining races on the Horde. Sin'dorei and Ren'dorei can still access the city through secret enclaves. Their primary charge as they see it now lies in protecting the Sunwell from those who would seek to claim and abuse its powers.[*]Gilneas leaves the Alliance, because Genn doesn't see eye to eye with the new king Turalyon. The nobles of Stormwind want to launch a crusade to reclaim the north, commanded by Turalyon. Genn has learned from Anduin and wants peace for his people and the chance to rebuild.

Wait what? Sorry but the Blood Elves have no reason to leave the Horde, especially in its new form. There is no advantage to doing that and with no Warchief to compel them to any action they'd rather not take, nothing to lose by staying with them. Far too much bad blood with the Alliance to go that way either.
Genn opposing Turalyon in taking back the North??? His people are against homeless refugees in SW with the destruction of Darnassus and he always wanted to claim Gilneas back. The Alliance already has a foothold in the Lordaeron with Stromgarde. Most of the Forsaken have moved out. I really don't see it.

[Chickat]

Kel'thuzad was never in Revendreth. He was sent directly to Maldraxxus due to his high ambitions he had in life, one of the requirements to be sent there (as explained by Vashj).

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Demons respawn is kill after we defeated Argus.

Not true. All Argus did was act as a battery to speed the resserection of demons up. Thats where they naturally go. It just normally takes longer. Argus made it nearly instant.

[Nymrohd]

I don't think Genn will oppose rebuilding Gilneas. But I don't think he wants an all-out invasion of the north. He was there at the Battle of the Undercity during the Fourth War, and he has learned from Anduin that sometimes peace is the best way.

Peace with whom? Who would they be at war with?

[Zharikov]

Not true. All Argus did was act as a battery to speed the resserection of demons up. Thats where they naturally go. It just normally takes longer. Argus made it nearly instant.

A battery and a beacon, specifically. Before, they all resurrected on Argus, powered by his life force. Now they respawn scattered in the Nether, returned to the disorder and chaos natural for their realm.

[Syegfryed]

I think the Sunwell will become key.

It'll be an important power source of the Light, which many of these warring factions will want to claim to use in rebuilding their own power.

More reason to not allow void corrupted elves nearby and not leave the horde?

Like, if people want to take the sunwell why they would ditch the support and manpower of the horde?

But the Quel'dorei will be like "Eff you, we're shutting our gates and using the well's power to rebuild Silvermoon."

Are you following the game? quel'dorei, per se, don't exist anymore, second, the blood elves have no power to say or do that, they are an almost extinct race, yes they show a lot because fanservice, but they can't defend alone.

[Nymrohd]

A battery and a beacon, specifically. Before, they all resurrected on Argus, powered by his life force. Now they respawn scattered in the Nether, returned to the disorder and chaos natural for their realm.

Legion really had the potential to subtly introduce Zovaal and make us reconsider the Nathrezim.

[Super Dickmann]

Legion really had the potential to subtly introduce Zovaal and make us reconsider the Nathrezim.

What, a single line from Varimathras and another from Gul'dan wasn't enough setup for you? Getting greedy here, are we?

The dreadlord retcon had the potential to easily solve the biggest logical sinkhole at the Legion climax. I.e why a single ship is somehow able to gain access to and contest the entire universe-spanning apparat of the Legion who's fleet we see deployed towards Azeroth in the very skybox accomplish nothing. Namely by revealing that our entry into all of the core points was deliberate sabotage and the Legion not catching up with the ship was the dreadlords on one end coordinating with Lothraxion, but alas.