Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Three Faced Goddess]

Here is to hoping we get some Darkfallen customization for blood elves and night elves.

Hear! Hear!

[Civciv]

I'm tired of "Azeroth is wounded" plot. Let her do something

[Luck4]

What it will actually be

That screen remembers me of this video:



I miss these old complaints.

Nowadays complaints are a lot more serious, heavier, and concerning. Like... lore/writing sucks, Alliance is dead, borrowed power is awful, (insert an MMO name here) is better.

[Revamp Man]

Just use the heart to finish healing

[Sharby]

The Heart can still be present without having to be relevant to the plot.

Just make it consistently used out of game but never in game, just like our legendary ring and garrison. Or the Wrathion cape.

[huth]

The Heart can still be present without having to be relevant to the plot.

Just make it consistently used out of game but never in game, just like our legendary ring and garrison. Or the Wrathion cape.

Sorry, what? None of those are used in any fashion outside the game.

Also, the question was whether there will be a lore explanation for why it isn't relevant to current content back on Azeroth, where previously, it still worked.

[Syegfryed]

Law: Light, Death, Order
Chaos: Void, Fel, Life
Neutral: Reality

i see deth and arcane as neutral.

See, Arcane is order, order is balance, the true order or balance should be something neutral, not too lawful neither too chaotic. Death is the ultimate neutral thing, you die, you are not lawful neither chaotic, its the only path of action, true neutrality.

Void also is more a lawful force than chaos being opposed to light with their own agenda.

[Ersula]

See, Arcane is order, order is balance, the true order or balance should be something neutral, not too lawful neither too chaotic. Death is the ultimate neutral thing, you die, you are not lawful neither chaotic, its the only path of action, true neutrality.

Void also is more a lawful force than chaos being opposed to light with their own agenda.

I don't think any of the cosmic forces could be that myopic: For example, Illidan was part of grand masterplan of X'era that started thousands of years ago: But there were still Naaru trying to kill him in TBC. So even these cosmic beings have internal discourse.

[Villager720]

Can't we just say the Jailer's assault on Azeroth's soul weakened her enough that she can no longer spare the strength to power the Heart?

[Alanar]

She's the ambassador of the Bronze Dragonflight.
If the bronze are involved, she will show up.

Besides, what's the issue?
Chromie is fun and likable.

Is it because she's a gnome? Are people really still stuck on the hating gnomes thing?

Her voice is annoying and it makes it less serious, more bubbly like ardenweald. Nothing against it, just that other characters are cooler and less annoying.

Chromie was never interesting or cool looking. What else can we go on with her? And sorry ye gnomes still suck m8.

[Luck4]

8 days...

[Mferna]

Can't we just say the Jailer's assault on Azeroth's soul weakened her enough that she can no longer spare the strength to power the Heart?

The jailer weakened all of our hearts not just Azeroth’s, that’s a totally credible explanation lol.

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i see deth and arcane as neutral.

See, Arcane is order, order is balance, the true order or balance should be something neutral, not too lawful neither too chaotic. Death is the ultimate neutral thing, you die, you are not lawful neither chaotic, its the only path of action, true neutrality.

Void also is more a lawful force than chaos being opposed to light with their own agenda.

I think he means something more along the lines of death, light, and order being very demanding forces and there’s not much room to shift among them- they follow a strict purpose. Like the light being so fanatical and demanding of its worshipers, and the titans (order) being so helbent on shaping worlds thru their image.

And the other forces pose a lot of room for overlap like void offering you multiple truths and paths, life consuming itself and everything around it if left unchecked. Etc.

Idk, it makes sense in my head I’ve always thought of the forces thru those lenses.

[Syegfryed]

A creature inside the bag can use its action to try to Escape with a successful DC 15 Strength check. Another creature can use its action to reach into the bag to pull a creature out, doing so with a successful DC 20 Strength check (provided it isn't pulled inside the bag first). Any creature that starts its turn inside the bag is devoured, its body destroyed.

I think he means something more along the lines of death, light, and order being very demanding forces and there’s not much room to shift among them- they follow a strict purpose. Like the light being so fanatical and demanding of its worshipers, and the titans (order) being so helbent on shaping worlds thru their image.

And the other forces pose a lot of room for overlap like void offering you multiple truths and paths, life consuming itself and everything around it if left unchecked. Etc.

Idk, it makes sense in my head I’ve always thought of the forces thru those lenses.

But see, "order", is the path of neutrality, they see planets with chaos, and order then, like we saw in draenor and azeroth, even if its their own image, still is an acting of putting things neutral, the titans/pantheon, would be something as "neutral good".

Void even having multiple truths and paths, and consuming, still have a reason/purpose, and act upon those goals, the old gods/void lords would be something as "lawful evil"

[Mferna]

A creature inside the bag can use its action to try to Escape with a successful DC 15 Strength check. Another creature can use its action to reach into the bag to pull a creature out, doing so with a successful DC 20 Strength check (provided it isn't pulled inside the bag first). Any creature that starts its turn inside the bag is devoured, its body destroyed.



But see, "order", is the path of neutrality, they see planets with chaos, and order then, like we saw in draenor and azeroth, even if its their own image, still is an acting of putting things neutral, the titans/pantheon, would be something as "neutral good".

Void even having multiple truths and paths, and consuming, still have a reason/purpose, and act upon those goals, the old gods/void lords would be something as "lawful evil"

Respectfully I think thats so incorrect lol. The void and its forces cannot be lawful evil, they're not lawful they're chaotic. The light is lawful because it is absolute and must be followed, the void is opposite (chaotic) as their is so many paths and possible truths. The paladin is stalwart in his faith, the shadow priest questions everything. But Yeah, I just dont see order as neutral good or evil because order's oposite force is disorder. So what would that be classified as? This poses to many questions cause if you label a few under these classifications you gotta do all 6 and they gotta make sense in contrast to eachother.

[Syegfryed]

Respectfully I think thats so incorrect lol. The void and its forces cannot be lawful evil, they're not lawful they're chaotic. The light is lawful because it is absolute and must be followed, the void is opposite (chaotic) as their is so many paths and possible truths. The paladin is stalwart in his faith, the shadow priest questions everything. But Yeah, I just dont see order as neutral good or evil because order's oposite force is disorder. So what would that be classified as? This poses to many questions cause if you label a few under these classifications you gotta do all 6 and they gotta make sense in contrast to eachother.

But i agree light is lawful?

Just because you have "many truths" and possibilities doesn't explicit mean its chaos, something truly random is something you can't predict, chaotic, you would not even have a "truth", you could not see the future to see those "truths".

The opposite of chaos is order, order = neutrality, fel is chaos, arcane is order/neutrality.

Forces are not inherently good, neutral or evil, wow lore has made clear that what matters is the entities/people using it and how they use it. I didn't said Arcane per se is good, i said arcane is a force of order/neutrality, the pantheon/titans using, would be labeled neutral good or neutral Lawful(which i think fits then more)

The scarlet crusade or yrel and her army would be lawful evil, the order of paladins the priests, the classhall we play would be lawful good. The burning Legion would be Chaotic neutral, but the warlocks who serve the factions would be chaotic neutral/good.

TbF alignment is always something hard to pin down, exactly because those many different factors, So i just label the forces in the base(lawful/neutral/chaotic) and the rest is secondary and it depends on who use it

Its especially hard because wow cosmology is bad compared to something more well though like in D&D. i look at the image and always pisses me off.

[Yossarian]

résumé of the last days? any further likely leak since the Alexstrasza image?

[Nymrohd]

Those might have been a bit of an outlier in how shockingly good they were, but they are also the only time I legitimately felt bad about losing borrowed power, and consequently really felt that I grew weaker as I levelled.
Normally I don't really notice it that bad. I get weaker, but not in a way where there is a sharp cutoff like when I had to abandon my MM 4-set. I just treat it like the enemies growing stronger faster than I cna gear up, but that one time in Legion was absolutely horrible.

This is perhaps why Essences might be the solution to borrowed power. Imagine a system where you can keep discovering additional powers. Yet you can only pick a limited amount. These powers never go away but you also always have to choose which ones you want. So a system very much like War Mode that you can keep building up on over time. You can even have those powers advance by doing activities like Essences did.
So imagine if instead of tier sets (keep the class mogs though!) it worked like the Essences we got from raids, only it is spec specific. Clear a couple of wings of LFR or even a single Heroic boss and you get a base power (like the 2set). Keep clearing more and you can upgrade with a legendary version that is just cosmetic from clearing it in Mythic.
Not only would such a set make acquiring tier easier, it would also keep older raids alive FOREVER. Make tier from past expansions much easier to acquire, power creep them, tie them to Timewalking (which should become evergreen and constantly available, almost everyone seems to want that). You never lose what you had, pure throughput tier can easily keep powercreeping so that you always want the newest one while transformative tiers might be kept as an extra talent or swapped for specific encounters.
You could then much more easily add tier for pvp (could be as simple as "pick an extra war mode talent"), tier for Mythic+ (could be a new tier available each season that is thematic to the seasonal affix, available afterwards through the Vault token?)

[ercarp]

résumé of the last days? any further likely leak since the Alexstrasza image?

Nothing yet. I don't think we'll get any other leaks until the day of the reveal.

[Nymrohd]

But i agree light is lawful?

Just because you have "many truths" and possibilities doesn't explicit mean its chaos, something truly random is something you can't predict, chaotic, you would not even have a "truth", you could not see the future to see those "truths".

The opposite of chaos is order, order = neutrality, fel is chaos, arcane is order/neutrality.

Forces are not inherently good, neutral or evil, wow lore has made clear that what matters is the entities/people using it and how they use it. I didn't said Arcane per se is good, i said arcane is a force of order/neutrality, the pantheon/titans using, would be labeled neutral good or neutral Lawful(which i think fits then more)

The scarlet crusade or yrel and her army would be lawful evil, the order of paladins the priests, the classhall we play would be lawful good. The burning Legion would be Chaotic neutral, but the warlocks who serve the factions would be chaotic neutral/good.

TbF alignment is always something hard to pin down, exactly because those many different factors, So i just label the forces in the base(lawful/neutral/chaotic) and the rest is secondary and it depends on who use it

Its especially hard because wow cosmology is bad compared to something more well though like in D&D. i look at the image and always pisses me off.

The thing is, Light is not just lawful. When Mereldar first met the Naaru, she met five Naaru each of which represented a different virtue. Those included holiness, protection, justice, retribution, and compassion. None of these are innately lawful (no, not even justice, even CG creatures believe in fairness and thus justice, they just don't believe that fairness is tied to law). Yes in Azeroth the Light has mostly been seen as lawful but that is because the two most prominent of the Seven Kingdoms in the lore (Lordaeron and Stormwind) elevated the Church to effectively be an arm of the state and we interacted with Paladins far more than with Priests.

Then we see the Light used by the Army of Light. I don't see how it is lawful there. The army itself is a guerilla force that seems tied by camaraderie as much as faith; they are soldiers in a common cause fighting over centuries together. Their faith in the Light is not blind; that becomes very much obvious when they keep working with Illidan for the greater cause even after he blasts X'era to bits. Even X'era allows questioning; she allows Alleria to live even though Alleria is a mortal threat to her that can not just kill her but transform her into what she hates the most.

Then there is Yrel. I do not think we can make any judgments on Y'rel's regime. We have absolutely no idea what has transpired in Draenor. We do see that the Mag'har easily use dark magics (they torture and manipulate souls in Stormsong which is the darkest of magics) so just accepting one side's account is misguided. For all we know Yrel's regime might not be ruled by the Light alone. We know that the Nathrezim have infilitrated the Light; maybe it is not Lothraxion but an advisor to Yrel who is that agent. That said, Yrel's regime IS lawful. But is it because of the Light or is it because she transformed her people's culture into a military dictatorship? The Draenei were ruled by Velen for eons and yet had never devolved into that before so maybe the issue is that Yrel is lawful, not that the Light is.

We see that Light responds to conviction first and foremost. Not just to zeal. There is a difference there. Conviction still allows you to question (and if we go into moral philosophy, the difference is the cornerstone of many religions in our world; you should question your faith to strengthen it). We see it in game with characters like Tirion but also the Scarlets. That does allow the Light to be used for evil; the virtues of the Light will suffuse you but in the end you are not compelled to show compassion just because you use the Light.

[therumblings]

If we get anything else, I'd expect it to pop up sometime this week, the real one is usually a few days before the announcement. However, I'm not sure if we'll get the typical mmo-c thread post leak, since SL didn't have one to my knowledge, and I also think those leaks usually come from people reading the slides beforehand? I have no idea how they're going to announce this, but It's definitely going to be pre-recorded.