1. #39121
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    it doesn't force the outcome..
    Eh, Yrel started a Naaru backed crusade on Draenor and forced the Light onto anyone that didn't join willingly.
    Xe'ra also tried to force the Light's perceived destiny on Illidan.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  2. #39122
    Quote Originally Posted by Tephereth View Post
    Hi, is there a channel where we can follow the expansion announcement? I mean youtube or twitch blizzard channel? thank you
    They will most likely inform us in a blog post on how exactly the announcement will be covered a few days beforehand. I doubt they will just drop it on youtube.

  3. #39123
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    it doesn't force the outcome..
    Eh, Yrel started a Naaru backed crusade on Draenor and forced the Light onto anyone that didn't join willingly.
    Xe'ra also tried to force the Light's perceived destiny on Illidan and condemned anything that wasn't in concordance with the Lights path.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  4. #39124
    Scarab Lord ercarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tephereth View Post
    Hi, is there a channel where we can follow the expansion announcement? I mean youtube or twitch blizzard channel? thank you
    The announcement is still 8 days away and I think there will be one more blog post on the day with information on where we can watch it and when. I think it will probably be live-streamed on their YouTube channel, and possibly Twitch as well.

  5. #39125
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Eh, Yrel started a Naaru backed crusade on Draenor and forced the Light onto anyone that didn't join willingly.
    Xe'ra also tried to force the Light's perceived destiny on Illidan.
    Well we had moved in that discussion about the Light itself as a force, not about Light actors. And yes, Xe'ra did force the Light on Illidan specifically. It was not however presented as the way Xe'ra normally functioned. You could hear the desperation in the voice acting. For her, this was the only way the Light would win against the Legion and she was willing to do anything to accomplish that. We don't see any other Lightbound within the Army; Lothraxion himself suggests he joined willingly after all and if Xe'ra was taking that approach commonly there would be more Light demons than just him.

    As for Yrel I really do not trust anything coming from Geyarah. We have no idea what actually happened in Draenor or who is to blame. What I do know is that the Mag'har liberally use dark magic against anyone even if tangentially related to the Light.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-04-11 at 10:24 AM.

  6. #39126
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    The announcement is still 8 days away and I think there will be one more blog post on the day with information on where we can watch it and when. I think it will probably be live-streamed on their YouTube channel, and possibly Twitch as well.
    Also most likely all known WoW streamers will co-steam it.

  7. #39127
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Also most likely all known WoW streamers will co-steam it.
    I really do hope they use Ion instead of Danuser. Or Ybarra himself. If Danuser comes out telling us how after the amazing job he's done with Shadowlands we get Dragonflight like he did with the ZM announcement (you can walk on water!!!) will kill the announcement for me.

  8. #39128
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    i see deth and arcane as neutral.

    See, Arcane is order, order is balance, the true order or balance should be something neutral, not too lawful neither too chaotic. Death is the ultimate neutral thing, you die, you are not lawful neither chaotic, its the only path of action, true neutrality.

    Void also is more a lawful force than chaos being opposed to light with their own agenda.
    If you look at how they described the Void from the Nathrezim pov (Unseen Guests), you'll see that they are actually the most inherently chaotic force. Their agenda could be described as turning the Light over to Void and the rest of the cosmos by extention, however, the actual application of that agenda is indiscriminate chaos. I do agree there is not enough concrete perspective for the Void, yet we can theorize that much.

    I see what you mean by Death being neutral and I did believe the same before Shadowlands. After that (bad story or not), it felt clear that the Shadowlands are rather oppressing. With that being said, my binary take on the cosmic forces has to do with each force being designed to be the "cure" to its counterpart.

    Where Light is Law, Void has to be Chaos and so on for the forces. If we are to look into the possibility of the Void being Law to any extent, we need to also see if there is any Chaos in the Light. Perhaps Light unchecked is a chaotic force of its own? Then again we could be wrong and every cosmic force functions as a "world" much like the realms of Death.

  9. #39129
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I really do hope they use Ion instead of Danuser. Or Ybarra himself. If Danuser comes out telling us how after the amazing job he's done with Shadowlands we get Dragonflight like he did with the ZM announcement (you can walk on water!!!) will kill the announcement for me.
    I'm hoping for Ybarra. First because Ion is a dick and I hate the smug face he constantly makes. Second, cause as the new director he needs to do something that could possibly be in his job description. Cause so far it's just "sell mythic runs" and "tweet"

  10. #39130
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Then again we could be wrong and every cosmic force functions as a "world" much like the realms of Death.
    I think this is one of the bigger mistakes of Shadowlands. The Chronicle allowed for the Shadowlands and the Emerald Dream to be sort of transitive planes, existing close to the material and associated with one of the forces but not the actual force themselves. That would mean that there is a force of pure Death (and Light and everything else) but it is unknowable to anything but the primal entities of Death itself and that souls who end there are beyond reach and actually end in the afterlife. It would have made the Shadowlands not afterlifes per se but a place were souls are processed before they end up in the afterlife. Yet they did not really choose to present it as such.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    I'm hoping for Ybarra. First because Ion is a dick and I hate the smug face he constantly makes. Second, cause as the new director he needs to do something that could possibly be in his job description. Cause so far it's just "sell mythic runs" and "tweet"
    And really even with the boost controversy (which imo is bullshit, most high end raiders sell boosts, it allows for the content to remain relevant and fun for them into farm) I think the community still likes Ybarra. He seems closer to the typical gamer than Ion whose past presence in EJ's forums more hindered than helped community perception of him (and definitely more than Danuser).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    If you look at how they described the Void from the Nathrezim pov (Unseen Guests), you'll see that they are actually the most inherently chaotic force. Their agenda could be described as turning the Light over to Void and the rest of the cosmos by extention, however, the actual application of that agenda is indiscriminate chaos. I do agree there is not enough concrete perspective for the Void, yet we can theorize that much.

    I see what you mean by Death being neutral and I did believe the same before Shadowlands. After that (bad story or not), it felt clear that the Shadowlands are rather oppressing. With that being said, my binary take on the cosmic forces has to do with each force being designed to be the "cure" to its counterpart.

    Where Light is Law, Void has to be Chaos and so on for the forces. If we are to look into the possibility of the Void being Law to any extent, we need to also see if there is any Chaos in the Light. Perhaps Light unchecked is a chaotic force of its own? Then again we could be wrong and every cosmic force functions as a "world" much like the realms of Death.
    I think the idea of opposition changes a bit with the First Ones. Perhaps the forces opposite in the chart are meant to complement each other rather than oppose each other.

  11. #39131
    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    Life/Dragon expansion is what I'd bet on. With some ties to Elementals.

    A Light-themed twist isn't completely out of the question though, especially since according to the Tauren creation myth, Elune should have a twin brother (An'she) with control over Light/Fire. And we know for a fact that this myth is at least somewhat accurate since Lo'sho, the Blue Child, is obviously supposed to represent the Winter Queen. So who's An'she then?
    U said it yourself.

    White lady > Elune
    The Sun > An'she
    Blue Child > Lo'sho/Winter Queen

  12. #39132
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    From what we know, i think we can deduce that the forces are representing these things:

    Light - Destiny and Hierarchy
    Order - Structure and Stability
    Disorder - Destruction and Chaos
    Life - Change and Potential
    Death - Finality and Stagnation
    Void - Posibility and Unrestricted Freedom


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  13. #39133
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I really do hope they use Ion instead of Danuser. Or Ybarra himself. If Danuser comes out telling us how after the amazing job he's done with Shadowlands we get Dragonflight like he did with the ZM announcement (you can walk on water!!!) will kill the announcement for me.
    Don't know why Danuser would be the one announcing it. It'll be one of the leads, John Hight, Ion or maybe Morgan Day. My bet is on John leading into an announcement by Ion. It -could- be Morgan if he's taking over from Ion sooner rather than later, but right now he's still associate game director.

  14. #39134
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    Don't know why Danuser would be the one announcing it. It'll be one of the leads, John Hight, Ion or maybe Morgan Day. My bet is on John leading into an announcement by Ion. It -could- be Morgan if he's taking over from Ion sooner rather than later, but right now he's still associate game director.
    I only bring it up because I was surprised he announced 9.2

  15. #39135
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    I'm hoping for Ybarra. First because Ion is a dick and I hate the smug face he constantly makes. Second, cause as the new director he needs to do something that could possibly be in his job description. Cause so far it's just "sell mythic runs" and "tweet"
    Yeah sure why wouldn't you want to see the chad Ybarra - he would prolly announce a groupfinder tab for selling stuff.

    Tbf I just hope it's like the 9.2 video with a lots of different people and neither Ion nor Ybarra.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  16. #39136
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    From what we know, i think we can deduce that the forces are representing these things:

    Light - Destiny and Hierarchy
    Order - Structure and Stability
    Disorder - Destruction and Chaos
    Life - Change and Potential
    Death - Finality and Stagnation
    Void - Posibility and Unrestricted Freedom
    The thing is that a lot of death is related to destiny and designs. And we have Ardenweald which is entirely focused on renewal. So the themes of death are quite harder to pin like this. Thus the broker view of death and life being so intertwined they just represent a cycle and other forces orbit around it

  17. #39137
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    The thing is that a lot of death is related to destiny and designs. And we have Ardenweald which is entirely focused on renewal. So the themes of death are quite harder to pin like this. Thus the broker view of death and life being so intertwined they just represent a cycle and other forces orbit around it
    Honestly if I could see a main theme of death it's consuming the anima produced by the souls of the living to serve the goals of death. Even the renewal of Ardenweald comes at great cost.

  18. #39138
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    If you look at how they described the Void from the Nathrezim pov (Unseen Guests), you'll see that they are actually the most inherently chaotic force. Their agenda could be described as turning the Light over to Void and the rest of the cosmos by extention, however, the actual application of that agenda is indiscriminate chaos. I do agree there is not enough concrete perspective for the Void, yet we can theorize that much.
    Their agenda of turning everything to void, can be considerate more lalwful than chaotic, if you compare to fel magic who goal is to destroy everything.

    Change everything to void, as their ultimate goal x destroying everything with chaos.

    Once again going for a D&D comparison, you can compare the demons of the nether/burning legion to the demons in the abyss, both are "demonic" forces who want to doom/destroy creation(even before Sargeras) Both are chaotic evil forces, but fel magic per se would be just chaos/chaotic.

    Void lords/old gods i compare with the devils of the nine hells, both are "fiendish" forces trying to, not to destroy creation, but redesign in their own shape and purpose, void creatures like devils are more likely to corrupt with truths, both are lawful evil, but void as a force would be, just like light lawful.
    I see what you mean by Death being neutral and I did believe the same before Shadowlands. After that (bad story or not), it felt clear that the Shadowlands are rather oppressing. With that being said, my binary take on the cosmic forces has to do with each force being designed to be the "cure" to its counterpart.
    Well, shadowland sis more of a pre-stage of death, not death tiself, if you see the cosmological chart is akin to emerald dream, "true death" when someone dies in shadowlands means "ultimate" nothingness, true neutral.

    Where Light is Law, Void has to be Chaos and so on for the forces. If we are to look into the possibility of the Void being Law to any extent, we need to also see if there is any Chaos in the Light. Perhaps Light unchecked is a chaotic force of its own? Then again we could be wrong and every cosmic force functions as a "world" much like the realms of Death.
    After some time reading into the cosmological chart and lore as well, i have come to the conclusion, that the forces can be opposite forces like we have being assuming, sure, void is the opposite of light, but doesn't mean they are entirely different and seems more like sides of the same coin, so it would make more sense to be two sides of the lawful spectrum. at least in this case, cause fel x arcane is chaos x neutral, death x nature is neutral x chaos as well, cause it would not make sense nature to be a force of lawfulness and death chaos.

    If you goo deep, you can see things like the elemental forces being formed by the combination of two others, like "fire" being born from fel and light, which i doubt is the case, soim seeing the cosmological chart from chronicles as more of artistic representation rather than accurate panel that mirror opposite energies.

    Sure i can be entirely wrong, which is prob true, but time will(or not) tell, things are even more bananas cause "7th force" and who knows what danuser will come up with.

  19. #39139
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Honestly if I could see a main theme of death it's consuming the anima produced by the souls of the living to serve the goals of death. Even the renewal of Ardenweald comes at great cost.
    I guess that's one of the issues with death realms, they have to at the same time judge, amend, and balance the cosmos

  20. #39140
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think this is one of the bigger mistakes of Shadowlands. The Chronicle allowed for the Shadowlands and the Emerald Dream to be sort of transitive planes, existing close to the material and associated with one of the forces but not the actual force themselves. That would mean that there is a force of pure Death (and Light and everything else) but it is unknowable to anything but the primal entities of Death itself and that souls who end there are beyond reach and actually end in the afterlife. It would have made the Shadowlands not afterlifes per se but a place were souls are processed before they end up in the afterlife. Yet they did not really choose to present it as such.
    This again, is what makes me thing the cosmological chart is pure arstistic license and not something acuratte, like i said before, it was clearly and blatantly inspired by the great axis/great wheel cosmology of D&D with emerald dream=feywild and shadowlands=shadowfell.

    And in D&D the shadowfell isn't the plane of the death, just like feywild isn't the plane of life, they are mirrors of the material plane, which a couple of years back was also true for shadowlands and emerald dream, but they decide to change that.

    I think the idea of opposition changes a bit with the First Ones. Perhaps the forces opposite in the chart are meant to complement each other rather than oppose each other.
    Thats why im basing my theory of light and void being complements rather than opposites, unlike fel and arcane who are indeed opposites.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-04-11 at 11:29 AM.

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