Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Raetary]

none information from the cronicles was retconned, please god stop with this nonsense

Lets see...

- Changed from Lore bible to 'titans perspective only' - which makes absolutely no sense as like 90% of it doesn't even involve them.
- Titans were dead as they couldn't manifest in the Keepers, they are alive again in 7.3
- Titans were the planets themselves, Sargeras being described with mountains and volcanos on his back, Audio drama retcons the titan planets to be cocoons and 7.3 flat out shows Sargeras in his proper Living Nebula state.
- Spirit Healers were established as rogue Val'kyr, in SL it turns out it was the smurf covenant all along.
- Nathrezim were pure, original demons that formed in the twisting nether, SL turned them into Denathrius' toys.

But sure, no retcons at all.

[Nymrohd]

literally braindead

? elaborate

Look at how other mediums successfully do subjective presentation.

[huth]

In wow i see order/arcane as a concept of neutrality rather than lawful, The titans saw chaotic words and shape then in order, but they don't say there to keep the "laws", and you know, lawful neutral exist exactly to answer this, as a primal force of neutrality with beings(titans) actively ordering the cosmo with their own vision.

Lawful Neutral is neutral on the moral axis, i.e. it is neither Good nor Evil. The same way a Neutral Good character is neither Lawful nor Chaotic.

It doesn't mean what you say here at all.

A law doesn't have to be explicitly stated, either. There's plenty of "unwritten rules". The Titans very clearly expect things to go a specific course and will resort to extreme measures when it doesn't, with it having been explicitly stated that they're perfectly willing to wipe out and rebuild planets to achieve this. That's not Neutral behaviour.


Also, as far as the Void is concerned, every path is true. They also explicitly have the ability to see the future, though this is of questionable use as they see all potential futures so for the most part it's just an incomprehensible jumble.

Your view is already incorrect based on the information we have now.

- - - Updated - - -

Lets see...

- Changed from Lore bible to 'titans perspective only' - which makes absolutely no sense as like 90% of it doesn't even involve them.
- Titans were dead as they couldn't manifest in the Keepers, they are alive again in 7.3
- Titans were the planets themselves, Sargeras being described with mountains and volcanos on his back, Audio drama retcons the titan planets to be cocoons and 7.3 flat out shows Sargeras in his proper Living Nebula state.
- Spirit Healers were established as rogue Val'kyr, in SL it turns out it was the smurf covenant all along.
- Nathrezim were pure, original demons that formed in the twisting nether, SL turned them into Denathrius' toys.

But sure, no retcons at all.

Maybe you should re-read the Chronicle. It doesn't state half of that.

Spirit Healers for example were not established as rogue Val'kyr in a way that made Kyrians impossible. It was stated that some became Spirit Healers... which may well have involved them dying.

Titans were also only described as appearing that way. It isn't at all clear if their original bodies were actually created from the planets.

Titans were dead in 7.3. Sargeras was torturing their disembodied souls. The Chronicle actually explains why they couldn't manifest.

The Chronicle never gave anything outside the Titan's perspective, either. Perspective doesn't mean "personally involved". It just means there's nothing in there that the Titans couldn't know about.

About the only point is the Nathrezim. Which is in keeping with their focus on deception and trickery, all things considered. For that matter, they were pretending to be Void worshippers.


There's also the problem that people keep assuming it was meant to be a comprehensive encyclopedia when that would have been practically impossible to do without ending the franchise. It was, and still is, for the most part definitive. It's not comprehensive, never could be and was never intended to be.

[Vasoka]

literally braindead

You sure are, buckaroo.

But anyway, it's one week to Danuser's baby, how're we all feeling?

[Nymrohd]

The Chronicle never gave anything outside the Titan's perspective, either. Perspective doesn't mean "personally involved". It just means there's nothing in there that the Titans couldn't know about.

How would the Titans know of all the things that happened while they were dead?

Also, when something is written from someone's perspective, it is presented as such. Could be reports written by Constellars. Tablets like the Disks of Norgannon that would record what happened. Yet what we got was not someone's account, it was a list of events that in no way intimated being someone's account.

Really, this narrative technique they say they are using is very common in fantasy. But it is always done in a way that makes it clear it is subjective. And the promotional material for the Chronicles literally called them "Definitive tomes of Warcraft history".

There's also the problem that people keep assuming it was meant to be a comprehensive encyclopedia when that would have been practically impossible to do without ending the franchise. It was, and still is, for the most part definitive. It's not comprehensive, never could be and was never intended to be.

Definitive literally means "complete, final, authoritative, exhaustive"

[huth]

How would the Titans know of all the things that happened while they were dead?

Their servants told them? They kinda have a habit of putting those everywhere.

Besides, that's missing the point. They had the ability to collect this information. They did not have the ability to get information about, say, the Shadowlands.

[Ersula]

How would the Titans know of all the things that happened while they were dead?

Well, Titans don't exactly die so much as become disembodied consciousness, ie: Eonar on Elunaria

[Wangming]

But anyway, it's one week to Danuser's baby, how're we all feeling?

Do you have to put it like that? I'm eating.

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Their servants told them? They kinda have a habit of putting those everywhere.

Besides, that's missing the point. They had the ability to collect this information. They did not have the ability to get information about, say, the Shadowlands.

I get all that. But then it begs the question: What even is the point? Like imagine this pitch to the fans:

"We made the lore a hot mess so to clear it up here is the subjective biased account of keepers who gathered a bunch of info for the titans while they were kinda sort of maybe dead."

I'm pretty sure 99% of the reactions would have been: Screw that, give us the actual answers.

And yes, it is true that providing definitive answers is difficult for an ongoing game like WoW, but the status of Chronicle as a lore bible didn't survive the end of Legion. They could have stuck to it a bit longer I feel.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Hi everyone, congrats on page 2000! Did I miss anything new?

[Raetary]

Hi everyone, congrats on page 2000! Did I miss anything new?

Hype train spring cleaning:

[Fahrad Wagner]

Hype train spring cleaning:

Dang, that's a pretty boiii

[huth]

I'm pretty sure 99% of the reactions would have been: Screw that, give us the actual answers.

And then they'd complain that there's no mystery in the game. I do not think giving the actual answers is even a good idea in the first place. A lore bible should be an internal thing, not external.

[Foolicious]

Well, Titans don't exactly die so much as become disembodied consciousness, ie: Eonar on Elunaria

Which was the case because norgannon protected the titan souls.
When we killed argus he went to the shadowlands but this may have been because of some stuff the dreadlords did.
We don't have an answer what happens if a titan truly dies they may be gone for good (whatever that means in wow)

[pacotaco]

Speaking of, it's funny how nobody considered the idea of the return of the heart.

Well, I sort of expected to be like the Dragon Soul on steroids. And the expansion theme fits with it.

[Berkilak]

Well, I sort of expected to be like the Dragon Soul on steroids. And the expansion theme fits with it.

Back when we were gathering the dragonflights to empower the Heart, I had a chuckle at how similar it was to the Dragon Soul plot - it even had a devious black dragon orchestrating the whole thing. At the time, I assumed that they simply didn't remember that the Dragon Soul is a thing that exists. In hindsight? I think they did to the Dragon Soul what the Jailer did to Arthas. Instead of following up on an existing plot thread, they simply wove their own janky thread into this shoddy tapestry. It's pride. They needed that original creation that's the same as what came before, but "better."

[Varodoc]

So I'm surprised no one here has mentioned this yet (Why?), but aside from long-awaited fair skin options, new eye colours, and no-tentacles options, Void elves didn't get much, if anything at all, in terms of new hairstyles, jewelry, etc. Meanwhile Nightborne, LF Draenei, and HM tauren got tons of new options. This is absolutely unfair. I am expecting Patch 10.0 to come with a vast plethora of new options for all those (allied) races (and mostly Void elves) who were ignored in Shadowlands compared to other races.

[Ersula]

And then they'd complain that there's no mystery in the game. I do not think giving the actual answers is even a good idea in the first place. A lore bible should be an internal thing, not external.

That's pretty much why the First Ones popped up. They explained everything about the creation of the universe but you need some existential mystery to your setting, so they had to create a new pantheon above the Titans.

- - - Updated - - -

So I'm surprised no one here has mentioned this yet (Why?), but aside from long-awaited fair skin options, new eye colours, and no-tentacles options, Void elves didn't get much, if anything at all, in terms of new hairstyles, jewelry, etc. Meanwhile Nightborne, LF Draenei, and HM tauren got tons of new options. This is absolutely unfair. I am expecting Patch 10.0 to come with a vast plethora of new options for all those (allied) races (and mostly Void elves) who were ignored in Shadowlands compared to other races.

Currently Void Elves have more customization options than Zandalari Trolls, Maghar Orcs, Worgen, Goblins, Dark Iron Dwarves & Vulpera, in a compilation of the amount of unique possible character models.

[Varx]

Hey hey hey, back earlier then expected .

So since I was right about dragon isles being 10.0 back during SL beta. I'm most likely right about 11.0.

Chances are that MU murozond and the infinite flight could be the ultimate antagonists of Dragonflight.

Why? Well because Yrel being stuck in AU draenor with no means of transportation here. She's being groomed to be a light aligned antagonist. She could also potentially push Turalyon over the edge, as the B plot of Dragonflight will most likely deal with him and Calia.

So yeah, Murozond will be the final boss, well defeat him and he'll then summon Yrel and the light bound as a last ditch effort against the void. Then boom, 11.0 is set up.

[Khaza-R]

1 week to go tomorrow!

I wonder if they'll start teasing on social media. It would feel weird if they just kept quiet all week and then just randomly posted a video next Tuesday. I want BlizzCon-levels of hype!

I would expect them to tease something Thurs or Friday if we get anything.

Maybe a real leak popping up around the same time or over the weekend.

[Berkilak]

Hey hey hey, back earlier then expected .

So since I was right about dragon isles being 10.0 back during SL beta. I'm most likely right about 11.0.

Chances are that MU murozond and the infinite flight could be the ultimate antagonists of Dragonflight.

Why? Well because Yrel being stuck in AU draenor with no means of transportation here. She's being groomed to be a light aligned antagonist. She could also potentially push Turalyon over the edge, as the B plot of Dragonflight will most likely deal with him and Calia.

So yeah, Murozond will be the final boss, well defeat him and he'll then summon Yrel and the light bound as a last ditch effort against the void. Then boom, 11.0 is set up.

Welcome back!