1. #39921
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Since Allied Races were introduced 4 years ago, we have gotten 10 new playable races. The previous 12 years, 5.

    The idea of "well most concepts can be realized as their own classes" just goes against the reality of Blizzard being able to develop and deliver new classes. So a system that allows for class fantasy without concerning itself with gameplay, is evidently more doable in terms of resources.

    I don't think it's inaccurate to call it lazy, but it is very naive to think somehow Blizzard would change how often they add new classes given how much of a hassle it is.
    Most concepts can, and people should be willing to see that. The reality is that most won't be made into new classes, but I'd rather people see the potential than their own lack of imagination continually get in the way. If an idea got popular, like, really popular, on the level that we're seeing requests for Tinkers or Dragonsworn type classes now, Blizzard would probably do it. (See: Demon Hunter, which if not added, would be likely thrown into the "Rogue Class Skin" by the usual suspects right now.)

    I'll have proof of concept for my Blademaster class done one day, and while I don't expect it to ever be playable, unlike a Tinker or Dragon class that appears unique and worthwhile even to people who don't think to deeply about it, I'd like people to see where it could go while still feeling like a Blademaster and not a Warrior or Shaman. It's the "shutting down of discourse" that really pisses me off. People closed to ideas.

    I'm not asking for every idea under the sun, but we should be able to expect Blizzard to deliver popular ideas and brand new permanent gameplay avenues every few years. 7 years is a hella long time since the last class.

  2. #39922
    On the subject of the much maligned "micro classes", send rightly so; there is one implementation of them that I would be a fan of.

    Lets say you have one spec unlocked for these four projected classes - Dragon Knight, Bard, Tinker, Chronomancer.

    There are other available specs, but you have to unlock them. You unlock them via a long, non time/rep gated quest chain that culminates with a difficult solo scenario, similar to the Mage Tower but not as difficult but still requiring some skill.

    For example, you want to unlock the Tinker tank spec. You embark on a long quest chain, which takes you to various parts of Azeroth with a link to Tinkers as a theme. Let's say, the sail barge in Thousand Needles, Undermine, a revamped Gnomeregan. At each point in the quest chain, you temporarily unlock the tank spec abilities as they're taught to you, and you learn to control and master them. Eventually, it culminates in a solo scenario that also requires a level of skill to complete where you put all of the abilities together and play in that spec for the scenario, which would also help with teaching you how to play the complete package of that spec. For Tinkers, let's say its in The Motherlode instance, but updated to reflect the scenario and storyline.

    You complete it and voila, RPG wise your character has learned a new skill, rather than just instantly being a master of its craft and having all specs unlocked, and your previous gadget/gunner specialist DPS Tinker can now pilot and repair mechs, and can now tank as a role.

    I understand this wouldn't be to everyone's taste, but it is an interesting concept that adds some more flavour back into the RPG aspect of the game.
    Last edited by Santandame; 2022-04-12 at 09:10 PM.

  3. #39923
    So for the shadowlands and timelines

    You have a thread which is the first death
    Then every version of that character that dies is like a memory download

    Kinda like the avatar one body many lives

  4. #39924
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Dragons View Post
    So for the shadowlands and timelines

    You have a thread which is the first death
    Then every version of that character that dies is like a memory download

    Kinda like the avatar one body many lives
    But then you'd be damned to whatever afterlife the first version of you that died earned. Were you a good boy? Fuck you, your Hitler alternate self got isekai'd by Truck-kun first, and now you're one of countless memory dumps in their mind as they rot in the Maw.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  5. #39925
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It's a silly argument anyway. Blizzard has straight-up told us that Affliction was actually based on Necromancer/Scourge ideas. Warlock already incorporates Necromancer themes as part of its class design.
    That's part of the logic behind covenant cosmetics. In Wrath Necromancers are describes as a kind of "Dark Pact" caster that uses Shadow & Frost. That describes all three caster classes in some way & all three have access to Necromancer cosmetics through the Necrolord Covenant.

    Races & Classes are on opposite sides of the gameplay spectrum in that Races affect gameplay very little & Classes affect gameplay immensely: You could call this tactile/abstract development with things that directly affect gameplay being "tactile," while things that are more ambient to the lore & feeling of the world would be "abstract" development. I don't think Blizzard takes Class Skins seriously because that firmly resides in the "abstract" sphere, even moreso than Races, and they always prioritize "tactile" development over "abstract" development. "Abstract" development is important but its always created as a byproduct of the "tactile" development. For example, transmogs are considered rewards for content, not content in & of themselves.

    So they're likely saying right now "Class Skins are not a priority because what they're actually asking for is very specific cosmetic rewards, which will naturally be added over time" for example, a Darkfallen allied race & heritage armor will likely sate people's desire for Dark Rangers. Necrolord cosmetics for Necromancers. etc.

    I want Bards the most but by analyzing Blizzard's internal logic, I think a Dragon themed class is most likely. They've just been giving players Tinker & Instrument themed transmogs lately to satisfy those people.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-04-12 at 09:21 PM.

  6. #39926
    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    But then you'd be damned to whatever afterlife the first version of you that died earned. Were you a good boy? Fuck you, your Hitler alternate self got isekai'd by Truck-kun first, and now you're one of countless memory dumps in their mind as they rot in the Maw.
    The only part of the afterlives that was permanent was the maw

    The others are literally “hey it’s not working out go back to the arbiter”

  7. #39927
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Yup, an Embrace happened during Kalecgos' ascension as an Aspect of the Blue.

    Though really, the planet got hit by a giant sword and was almost drilled to death since then. Maybe that affects the rotation a bit.
    Yeah, thought so lmaooo...

    Don't forget the nightmares N'Zoth likely gave Azeroth also. At this rate, I could go for a Dragon Isles Magical fantasy expac, with us fighting a Tiamat and exploring places such as the Undermine before entering another Cosmic plot/realm...

  8. #39928
    Scarab Lord ercarp's Avatar
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    Tinfoil-fueled ramblings coming through. Feel free to ignore this.

    I must be the only one who actually got hung up on the usage of the word "august" in one of the announcement of the announcement posts by Blizzard.

    Mark your Calendars! On April 19 at 9 a.m. PDT, you won’t want to miss what august adventures await the heroes of Azeroth next.
    I think it's such a strangely archaic word to throw in the middle of an otherwise completely normal post. Surely it has to be a clue!

    Could it mean the August Celestials are making a return? At least one of them is a dragon... sort of... and they're Wild Gods which means they're linked to Life, which in turn is linked to dragons if the "Dragons = Life" theory is proven to be true (personally, I would say it makes too much sense to not be the case).

    There were also some semi-interesting interactions between Wrathion and Yu'lon in MoP which most people probably forgot about by now. Could be foreshadowing something.

    Yu'lon says: Tell me, dragon-child. What is the nature of wisdom?
    Wrathion says: To do what is right, no matter the cost. That is wisdom.
    Yu'lon says: Spoken like a true child of the Aspects. Always seeking to change the world.
    Yu'lon says: But true wisdom comes from KNOWING what is right. And sometimes DOING nothing at all.
    Wrathion says: When is it ever wise not to act for the greater good?
    Just in general, Yu'lon has a fairly decent chunk of kind-of-pretentious "wisdom quotes" (“There is but one certainty - every end marks a new beginning.”) that could easily be retroactively twisted into some kind of foreshadowing.

    I realize all of this is a massive leap of logic based on nothing other than a single word, so don't take it too seriously. I think it's still interesting to speculate on these kinds of things, and isn't that what this thread is for anyway?

    But even if their use of this word doesn't mean anything, I don't think it would actually be that big of an assumption to say that we might be seeing the August Celestials again. The question is, just how relevant would they be to the story? Because I can't personally imagine an expansion where they would be taking the center stage. Even in MoP, they weren't that important to the overall plot of the expansion.

  9. #39929
    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    Tinfoil-fueled ramblings coming through. Feel free to ignore this.

    I must be the only one who actually got hung up on the usage of the word "august" in one of the announcement of the announcement posts by Blizzard.



    I think it's such a strangely archaic word to throw in the middle of an otherwise completely normal post. Surely it has to be a clue!

    Could it mean the August Celestials are making a return? At least one of them is a dragon... sort of... and they're Wild Gods which means they're linked to Life, which in turn is linked to dragons if the "Dragons = Life" theory is proven to be true (personally, I would say it makes too much sense to not be the case).

    There were also some semi-interesting interactions between Wrathion and Yu'lon in MoP which most people probably forgot about by now. Could be foreshadowing something.



    Just in general, Yu'lon has a fairly decent chunk of kind-of-pretentious "wisdom quotes" (“There is but one certainty - every end marks a new beginning.”) that could easily be retroactively twisted into some kind of foreshadowing.

    I realize all of this is a massive leap of logic based on nothing other than a single word, so don't take it too seriously. I think it's still interesting to speculate on these kinds of things, and isn't that what this thread is for anyway?

    But even if their use of this word doesn't mean anything, I don't think it would actually be that big of an assumption to say that we might be seeing the August Celestials again. The question is, just how relevant would they be to the story? Because I can't personally imagine an expansion where they would be taking the center stage. Even in MoP, they weren't that important to the overall plot of the expansion.
    August = Dignified, impressive, or honorable.

    Just means the next adventure the Heroes of Azeroth shall go through will be a dignified, or simply awe-inspiring journey.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I mean, if we do in fact see the August Celestials, that could just be an addition to the whole Life/Elune plot, which could definitely factor in the Dragonflight expac. I do think we'll enter the Planes of Life or Order next after 10.0 ends.

  10. #39930
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    August = Dignified, impressive, or honorable.

    Just means the next adventure the Heroes of Azeroth shall go through will be a dignified, or simply awe-inspiring journey.
    I know the definition of the word, but it doesn't change the fact that it's not a word you see used in this context particularly often. Usually when someone says "august" nowadays, they're talking about the month.

  11. #39931
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Dragons View Post
    The only part of the afterlives that was permanent was the maw

    The others are literally “hey it’s not working out go back to the arbiter”
    How does that make anything better? Garrosh got the maw, but they even clarified in Legion we only saw the "worst possible version of him" and that in any other timeline he was a great hero.

    We're just pointing out they were really doing a speedrun of "worst canonical statements we can make about this existential universe."

  12. #39932
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    I do think we'll enter the Planes of Life or Order next after 10.0 ends.
    With Blizzard's track record of squeezing entirely too much into a single expansion (BfA went through Nazjatar and Ny'alotha), I wouldn't be surprised if we went there already in 10.2 or 10.3.

    But there are also theories that the Dragon Isles are the Plane of Life, so who knows how it's gonna be. I personally think the Plane of Life is probably located on or inside the Moon.

  13. #39933
    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    I know the definition of the word, but it doesn't change the fact that it's not a word you see used in this context particularly often. Usually when someone says "august" nowadays, they're talking about the month.
    Despite August being a very early timeframe I really cannot help but think that the obvious solution is as always be best solution here. Something WoW related will become available in August. Referencing the August celestials, or using it in it's extremely archaic form seems like a stretch when there is a myriad of options for something WoW related coming out in August.

    What it could be is a better question though. The expansion releasing seems like a bit of a long-shot given the Alpha/Beta cycle would be just barely enough time if the Alpha opens almost immediately after, and the launch is at the very end of August.
    9.2.5 seems like a bit too far awayy if that is what they are going for, and even Season 4 coming out much later than the actual 9.2.5 patch seems like a stretch when it's so far off.
    Maybe it's a surprise 9.3 bridge patch between SL and 10.0 using reused assets, and generally focusing on content that isnt strictly new content, but which could be considered as such. Examples being Adventure mode for older content giving max level gear. Or Timewalking raids or dungeons getting more updates. All dungeons from WoD added to the Timewalking M+ rotation, and maybe the regular M+ rotation like Grimrail depot will be in Season 4.

    might seem a bit much, but I definitely cannot see why Blizzard would use August in such an old fashioned way when most people would assume it's related to the month august instead.



    Or maybe it is as someone said. Just a PR writers using a thesaurus a bit too enthusiastically.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  14. #39934
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    So they're likely saying right now "Class Skins are not a priority because what they're actually asking for is very specific cosmetic rewards, which will naturally be added over time" for example, a Darkfallen allied race & heritage armor will likely sate people's desire for Dark Rangers. Necrolord cosmetics for Necromancers. etc.
    I don't think you quite grasped what is meant by class skins. A Necromancer based armour set for cloth classes is not it.

  15. #39935
    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    With Blizzard's track record of squeezing entirely too much into a single expansion (BfA went through Nazjatar and Ny'alotha), I wouldn't be surprised if we went there already in 10.2 or 10.3.

    But there are also theories that the Dragon Isles are the Plane of Life, so who knows how it's gonna be. I personally think the Plane of Life is probably located on or inside the Moon.
    I thought this same way regarding Shadowlands alone, but understand that Dragonflight is about Dragons, which house Azerothian origin, and the Dragons exist to protect Azeroth entire, so the main setting should more or less simply be about the Dragon isles, and MAYBE other areas on Azeroth as well, such as maybe an unknown Titanic facility, the Undermine maybe?

  16. #39936
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Despite August being a very early timeframe I really cannot help but think that the obvious solution is as always be best solution here. Something WoW related will become available in August. Referencing the August celestials, or using it in it's extremely archaic form seems like a stretch when there is a myriad of options for something WoW related coming out in August.

    What it could be is a better question though. The expansion releasing seems like a bit of a long-shot given the Alpha/Beta cycle would be just barely enough time if the Alpha opens almost immediately after, and the launch is at the very end of August.
    9.2.5 seems like a bit too far awayy if that is what they are going for, and even Season 4 coming out much later than the actual 9.2.5 patch seems like a stretch when it's so far off.
    Maybe it's a surprise 9.3 bridge patch between SL and 10.0 using reused assets, and generally focusing on content that isnt strictly new content, but which could be considered as such. Examples being Adventure mode for older content giving max level gear. Or Timewalking raids or dungeons getting more updates. All dungeons from WoD added to the Timewalking M+ rotation, and maybe the regular M+ rotation like Grimrail depot will be in Season 4.

    might seem a bit much, but I definitely cannot see why Blizzard would use August in such an old fashioned way when most people would assume it's related to the month august instead.



    Or maybe it is as someone said. Just a PR writers using a thesaurus a bit too enthusiastically.
    All good points, a surprise 9.3 announcement for August alongside the expansion announcement would be interesting.

    It could also be an opportunity to throw some parallels at The Ruby Sanctum raid they added at the end of WotLK, seeing as we appear to be once again going from a death-themed expansion into a dragon-themed one.

  17. #39937
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I don't think you quite grasped what is meant by class skins. A Necromancer based armour set for cloth classes is not it.
    No I did, I also explained why that won't happen in my post. Cosmetics are never a priority on their own. Even the customization revamp was a "you'll get whatever we can scrape together if we have time" situation. Class skins would be an enormous project for no gameplay.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-04-12 at 09:51 PM.

  18. #39938
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    I thought this same way regarding Shadowlands alone, but understand that Dragonflight is about Dragons, which house Azerothian origin, and the Dragons exist to protect Azeroth entire, so the main setting should more or less simply be about the Dragon isles, and MAYBE other areas on Azeroth as well, such as maybe an unknown Titanic facility, the Undermine maybe?
    I would hope so, honestly. The cosmic stuff really needs to take a major backseat for at least the next two years. I would love it if the patch zones of 10.0 were all on Azeroth.

    There's gotta be a Titan facility on the Dragon Isles for sure. I'm betting on Uldorus personally.

    Undermine seems a bit out of left field for the dragon theme, but maybe they could make it work. It could be a fun Mechagon-style zone (except with goblins instead of diaper gnomes).

    Also, give me Tel'Abim or give me death.

  19. #39939
    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    There's gotta be a Titan facility on the Dragon Isles for sure. I'm betting on Uldorus personally.
    I thought it was pronounced Ulitoris

  20. #39940
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    No I did, I also explained why that won't happen in my post. Cosmetics are never a priority on their own. Even the customization revamp was a "you'll get whatever we can scrape together if we have time" situation. Class skins would be an enormous project for no gameplay.
    That depends. If they’re as described in one of the unconfirmed ‘leaks’ they’ll be earned and placed in a collections interface. With recolors and whatnot, like glyphs.

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