Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[huth]

Well. us lacking agency is nothing new, especially as a Horde player. We had to help Zul arfter all despite him doing obviously traitorous things during his quests in Zandalar. It was so painfully obvious that I just wanted to punch some of the quest designers. As for the fate scribe, I personally was even more offended by the poor mustache twirrling at the end. You know, a fully armored Natherzim in raidboss getup shows up, but instead of killing us, she orders the half nacked underling 1/3rd the size to do the deed while running away herself. That was just incomprehensibly dumb, we were incapacitated and literally in striking distance. One swing with her claws would have ended our saga. At least make a believable scenario in such cases.

I can accept that the genre rather limits possibilities for story agency. Any significant story deviation would quickly end you up with hundreds of diverging storylines, which isn't feasibly doable for any dev studio, and attempts to automatically generate fitting stories have so far been... less than compelling.

Zul may even make some sense - we had good reason to assume he was no good, but the Horde needed the Zandalari, who didn't know. As long as they didn't pick up on it, there wasn't much to be done since they were still wary of outsiders.

On the other hand, the PC should have been well enough aware that something's not right here even for the low-int classes with little understanding of deceit. Rogues and classes that require smarts just to learn have absolutely no excuse for falling for that nonsense. The whole retarded saturday morning mustache twirling just adds the crap cherry on the shitpile. The scenario had no way of being believable pretty much from the start.

[Syegfryed]

So, leaving the garbage lore aside, what are the classic recipes available in the cataclysm timewalking?

Kiatke, the Cataclysm Timewalking vendor, now sells several unavailable classic recipes.

Because i wanted for a fuckton of time to get the Darksoul Shoulders, but seems like they were classic only and i never knew anyone who could craft

[Cosmic Janitor]

Zul may even make some sense - we had good reason to assume he was no good, but the Horde needed the Zandalari, who didn't know. As long as they didn't pick up on it, there wasn't much to be done since they were still wary of outsiders.

Our contact was Talaji though and she was already distrusting of Zul and the others on the council. That we couldn't warn her properly is just annoying, especially given how on the nose the whole thing was. Same with the quest where you kill the other prophet, everything is scripted for the memes/tropes instead of the actual story happening, so even if you decide to wait and let him finish his speak, he never does, despite it appearing rather important to our task to get as much information as possible. I don't think the fate scribe is anymore egregious. I just pretended I went along with it like with Saurfang/Syvlanas to get more intel out of it, best you can do in WoW anyway.

[Syegfryed]

Our contact was Talaji though and she was already distrusting of Zul and the others on the council. That we couldn't warn her properly is just annoying, especially given how on the nose the whole thing was. Same with the quest where you kill the other prophet, everything is scripted for the memes/tropes instead of the actual story happening, so even if you decide to wait and let him finish his speak, he never does, despite it appearing rather important to our task to get as much information as possible.

What about we helping out Maghata? the one who murdered fucking Cairne? the devs are demented and don't know the lore that much or just don't have that on a personal level, or a feeling of attachment, they prob though it would be neat to see an old "badass character"

[Cosmic Janitor]

What about we helping out Maghata? the one who murdered fucking Cairne? the devs are demented and don't know the lore that much or just don't have that on a personal level, or a feeling of attachment., they prob though it would be neat see a old "badass character"

Ah don't remind me. Luckily I didn't play shaman much in legion.

[Teriz]

A Dragon-themed class sounds cool but realistically I see the Dragon Flights as being Covenants 2.0

Now - a Dragon playable race would be amazing. Like Worgen, but you can pick any race to be your Out-of-Combat form instead of being Human-locked.

Yeah, I just don't see Blizzard putting out another expansion without a new class. If they're not going to do a dragon-themed class, then the next expansion being based on Dragon Isles suddenly becomes more doubtful.

[Dracullus]

Nice, they introduced modern Legion style flight point maps for Pandaria and Draenor, now whole world have these. Also ui is slightly different when you ding achievement.

Anyone noticed more small changes like that?

[Sondrelk]

So I guess the new phoenix model (sans armor obviously) is a new model Blizzard is working on for 10.0, or possibly just 9.3 given how far out it would be.

From the model I would guess a generic large bird seen in new zones, but speculation on areas known for Phoenixes are always fun. I guess one area might be Quel'thalas, bring back the Siege of Silvermoon raid theory for Shadowlands.

[Varodoc]

So I guess the new phoenix model (sans armor obviously) is a new model Blizzard is working on for 10.0, or possibly just 9.3 given how far out it would be.

From the model I would guess a generic large bird seen in new zones, but speculation on areas known for Phoenixes are always fun. I guess one area might be Quel'thalas, bring back the Siege of Silvermoon raid theory for Shadowlands.

Those were my thoughts on the thread. I also provided strong evidence that supports this theory that 10.0 will feature Quel'Thalas heavily. I'll simply copy-paste because I don't feel like repeating myself:

In the Three Sisters comic that came out shortly before BfA, the Void Lords whispered to Alleria, telling her that the throne of Quel'Thalas belonged to her by right. Throughout BfA Alleria and Magister Umbric have repeatedly mentioned how they seek to bring Quel'Thalas back into the Alliance. Recently in the book about the Eastern Kingdoms Shaw noted that Alleria is certain that Quel'Thalas will stand with the Alliance again, although it's unclear if it's just optimism or if she has actually seen it, say, in a vision. We also know that the Alliance conquered Stromgarde, which was said to be the gateway to attacking Quel'Thalas, and that Turalyon seeks to reclaim other former holdings of the Alliance. Quel'Thalas is indeed a former holding of the Alliance of Lordaeron.

The set-up is definitely there, but I can also see the set-up for a Lightbound expansion centred around AU Draenor, conquered by the Lightbound. The Arakkoa could serve as allies against the Lightbound, hence the phoenix model.

Or it can be both in one expansion. The possibilities are endless.

But let's be real, when you think of "phoenix in Warcraft", you instantly think of Kael'thas and Al'ar (who is literally known as the "Phoenix God"), not the Arakkoa.

Anyone who thinks that the set-up is not there is being disingenuous and blind. Although it remains to be seen if it will be an entire expansion centred around Quel'Thalas or just one patch.

But how can Quel'Thalas serve as the setting for an entire expansion? The same way Kul Tiras did. In lore Kul Tiras is even smaller than Gilneas. In-game Quel'Thalas can easily be stretched and scaled up to serve as a questing hub for players. There are even 3 zones already: Eversong Woods, Ghostlands, Isle of Quel'Danas. And a potential fourth zone in the jungles surrounding Zul'Aman.

[therumblings]

Nice, they introduced modern Legion style flight point maps for Pandaria and Draenor

I noticed this too, I thought it was weird they didn't change their regular maps too like they did for Northrend and Outland.

[Sondrelk]

Those were my thoughts on the thread. I also provided strong evidence that supports this theory that 10.0 will feature Quel'Thalas heavily. I'll simply copy-paste because I don't feel like repeating myself:



Anyone who thinks that the set-up is not there is being disingenuous and blind. Although it remains to be seen if it will be an entire expansion centred around Quel'Thalas or just one patch.

But how can Quel'Thalas serve as the setting for an entire expansion? The same way Kul Tiras did. In lore Kul Tiras is even smaller than Gilneas. In-game Quel'Thalas can easily be stretched and scaled up to serve as a questing hub for players. There are even 3 zones already: Eversong Woods, Ghostlands, Isle of Quel'Danas. And a potential fourth zone in the jungles surrounding Zul'Aman.

While I don't disagree that Quel'thalas couldnt get the Kul Tiras treatment and be larger than one would believe, I still think it would be odd if they took a preexisting zone and scaled it up further.
What I could rather see then is taht the greater Quel'thalas/Loardaeron area is revamped as a larger set of zones. Include things like Gilneas as an Alliance hub or similar.

I guess it's possible, though I find myself doubtful.


On reflection I almost wonder whether it is a model intended for a graphical revamp of the Druid flight model. With some recoloring it could certainly work, and the druid flight form hasnt been updated in years upon years.

- - - Updated - - -

I noticed this too, I thought it was weird they didn't change their regular maps too like they did for Northrend and Outland.

Wasnt it just the Outland map that was updated, and then mostly to bring it in line with the expansions going forward that showed major landmarks?

[therumblings]

Wasnt it just the Outland map that was updated, and then mostly to bring it in line with the expansions going forward that showed major landmarks?

They updated Northrend/Kalimdor/EK/Outland's regular maps to be HD, along with the flight maps with the landmarks in HD, but for some reason the regular maps are missing from Draenor/Pandaria while the HD flightmaps got added, I'm wondering if they weren't ready yet and the flightmaps slipped through.

So assuming this gets added in the next patch, The Broken Isles are the only major continent without an HD map.

[Varodoc]

While I don't disagree that Quel'thalas couldnt get the Kul Tiras treatment and be larger than one would believe, I still think it would be odd if they took a preexisting zone and scaled it up further.
What I could rather see then is taht the greater Quel'thalas/Loardaeron area is revamped as a larger set of zones. Include things like Gilneas as an Alliance hub or similar.

I guess it's possible, though I find myself doubtful.


On reflection I almost wonder whether it is a model intended for a graphical revamp of the Druid flight model. With some recoloring it could certainly work, and the druid flight form hasnt been updated in years upon years.

- - - Updated - - -



Wasnt it just the Outland map that was updated, and then mostly to bring it in line with the expansions going forward that showed major landmarks?

While I agree that it would be a retcon if Quel'Thalas were scaled up massively to serve as questing hub; this is the same company that turned the Shadowlands from just a ghostly version of Azeroth into whatever this clown fiesta of vampires and fairies is.

This is how Quel'Thalas is supposed to look like in lore:













Now look at it in-game... Does it not deserve an update?

[therumblings]

Does it not deserve an update?

It does, most of the game pales in comparison to the true majesty of the actual lore size of some locations. I mean, even Kul Tiras is probably bigger lorewise than it is in game, but such is the nature of a video game, you can't really have weeks worth of travel in forests. That being said, I do think the phoenix mounts might be a clue to something, but it's so vague, like the vulpine mount, I have no idea what it could lead to, since that mount ended up just being a mob in Ardenweald.

[Varodoc]

It does, most of the game pales in comparison to the true majesty of the actual lore size of some locations. I mean, even Kul Tiras is probably bigger lorewise than it is in game, but such is the nature of a video game, you can't really have weeks worth of travel in forests. That being said, I do think the phoenix mounts might be a clue to something, but it's so vague, like the vulpine mount, I have no idea what it could lead to, since that mount ended up just being a mob in Ardenweald.

The rest of the world was updated in 2010 with the "Cataclysm" expansion. Quel'Thalas and Azuremyst Isles were left behind. They are a dusty relic from 2007. It's time to update them.

[therumblings]

The rest of the world was updated in 2010 with the "Cataclysm" expansion. Quel'Thalas and Azuremyst Isles were left behind. They are a dusty relic from 2007. It's time to update them.

Same with Outland and Northrend, and to a lesser extent the entire cataclysm new world. I don't really expect another revamp for a long time, but seeing the belf/draenei starting zones merged with their respective continents and updated to be on par with everything else, would be quite glorious.

[Varodoc]

Azuremyst Isles would be braindead easy to update since they can literally just copy-paste the thousands and thousands of Draenei buildings and props they created for WoD. Like literally just copypaste everything in Shadowmoon Valley and Talador and put it in the Azuremyst Isles, done.

Quel'Thalas deserves an update because it's one of the most important kingdoms in the Warcraft franchise; as the High Home of the High Elves, the progenitor race of 3 subraces: the Ren'dorei, the Sin'dorei, and the "Pure Quel'dorei". So much culture, lore, and history are tied to Quel'Thalas. It's a shame to see it stuck in 2007.

There's a lot of potential for conflict, that with the Ren'dorei and Quel'dorei who seek to reclaim their homeland for the Alliance. Thus we could have a heavy Alliance influence in semi-healed Ghostlands, with a Ren'dorei base of operations set up in the ruins of Deatholme for example. The potential is limitless.

But it cannot be denied the massive importance that Quel'Thalas currently has in the story; as the final Horde bastion in the East, and the ultimate goal of the Ren'dorei and Quel'dorei, who seek to bring their kin back into the Alliance.

[Sondrelk]

While I agree that it would be a retcon if Quel'Thalas were scaled up massively to serve as questing hub; this is the same company that turned the Shadowlands from just a ghostly version of Azeroth into whatever this clown fiesta of vampires and fairies is.

This is how Quel'Thalas is supposed to look like in lore:

-snip-

Now look at it in-game... Does it not deserve an update?

I don't dispute it could or whether it deserves an update, I just disagree with the fundamental notion that you should take an existing zone and make it bigger. It might work if the entire world was changed at once, but otherwise it would just lead to questions over why the zone that was just a peninsula is suddenly the size of a continent.

- - - Updated - - -

And I mean, let's be honest. All the racial hubs deserve an update.

Draenei have been living in actual ruins since TBC when the assets already exist for them to make a fully realized city.
Trolls are one of the initial races in the Horde, but have to be content with a smal island.
Nelves, Forsaken and Gilneans don't actually have a racial hub ot live in. Gilneans being especially egregious as Gilneas is right there just begging to be used.

Even races that have decent hubs should get better. Ironforge is cool and all, but compared to what it should be it is extremely lacking. Where is the intended experience of a city that truly connects all surrounding zones like the Wetland and Loch Modan, why is this city that supposedly snakes through the entire mountain only on a single plane. And even beyond that, why are there no new Dwarf assets that could be used?

[Varodoc]

I don't dispute it could or whether it deserves an update, I just disagree with the fundamental notion that you should take an existing zone and make it bigger. It might work if the entire world was changed at once, but otherwise it would just lead to questions over why the zone that was just a peninsula is suddenly the size of a continent.

- - - Updated - - -

And I mean, let's be honest. All the racial hubs deserve an update.

Draenei have been living in actual ruins since TBC when the assets already exist for them to make a fully realized city.
Trolls are one of the initial races in the Horde, but have to be content with a smal island.
Nelves, Forsaken and Gilneans don't actually have a racial hub ot live in. Gilneans being especially egregious as Gilneas is right there just begging to be used.

Even races that have decent hubs should get better. Ironforge is cool and all, but compared to what it should be it is extremely lacking. Where is the intended experience of a city that truly connects all surrounding zones like the Wetland and Loch Modan, why is this city that supposedly snakes through the entire mountain only on a single plane. And even beyond that, why are there no new Dwarf assets that could be used?

Ah yes Forsaken players deserve another zone update, because it wasn't enough that their racial leader has been featured in only 3 full CGI cinematic trailers so far.

[cirdanx]

What about we helping out Maghata? the one who murdered fucking Cairne? the devs are demented and don't know the lore that much or just don't have that on a personal level, or a feeling of attachment, they prob though it would be neat to see an old "badass character"

Oh god, i almost forgot that...thanks for me reminding me.

That was one of those moments where i actually felt terrible playing the game. And of course Baine only banished her...