Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lady Atia]

Basically how I feel about them as well. Being too lazy to create a full class and releasing half-assed versions of them under the pretense of them being "micro-classes" just sounds bad no matter how I look at it.

It's like selling you a car that's missing half its features and claiming that "it's okay because it's a Micro Car™! It's intended to be shit!"

EDIT: Seriously, which one would you choose:

- 1 fully functioning car that has ALL the features it needs.

OR

- 4 micro-cars: 1 has a steering wheel, 1 has brakes, 1 has a radio, and 1 has an extra seat at the back.

4 micro classes simply because i usually only play one spec per char anyways, so micro-classes would give me 4 (wildly) different chars to play with instead of one.

[Sondrelk]

4 micro classes simply because i usually only play one spec per char anyways, so micro-classes would give me 4 (wildly) different chars to play with instead of one.

On the flipside though. If that one spec is not to yyour liking then you are shit out of luck if you wanted to play that one character.
With three specs you have different options instead of completely abandoning your character for a different one.

If I want to experience playing a Death Knight, but I don't like to tank then I can choose to play DPS instead. And if my chosen DPS spec is then further not to my liking then I still have one more DPS spec to fall back to before deciding that Death Knights are just not for me.

With Microclasses some, like the healer ones, would be out of hte running outright if you don't like actually healing, and only one of them are viable if you like DPSing or tanking.
Had they all been part of one class then this wouldnt necessarily be a problem. But asking players to level a character to full that they then have no options in which to diversify is pretty poor design.

[Lady Atia]

Yes, they are. The fact that they're "like specs" is irrelevant, because specs are attached to an entire class and microclasses aren't.

They introduce several classes to the game that are abhorrently difficult to balance, because unlike every other class in the game, their viability is solely dependent on a single spec's performance, so if that one spec is at any point less than average, they have no fallback they are just awful and get blacklisted.
They introduce, for the first time in the game's history, the potential to be locked out of doing content with friends simply because you happened to choose the wrong combination of classes, and now can't even queue for dungeon together because you're the same role--and unlike every other class, who can just respec, you only have one option.
They add significantly more work anytime even basic class content (e.g. tier sets) gets added to the game, because now you have four more classes that need armor sets designed and set bonuses figured out. Introducing them isn't just a matter of the time investment to produce them for 10.0, it also means signing up to have four additional things to deal with if you ever want something like class halls again, or class quests.
They are awkward to balance for solo content, because while it's acceptable for a regular class to feel slow or a bit clunky when questing as a healer/tank spec (because they are choosing to do so but have DPS specs available) a micro just is slow or clunky when doing so, because they are a thing which can only ever off-spec that content.
They are a shit ton more work than just adding a traditional class, because they are not specs. They are single-spec classes. So while adding a normal class is adding a "class kit" and then three sets of rotational spec abilities and shared/specific talents, each individual microclass requires an entire functioning class kit in addition to its rotational setup. i.e. a regular class adds 1 general tab and 3 spec tabs; micro classes add four general tabs and four spec tabs. You'd have less work from introducing a five spec dragon class than four microclasses. The same applies to core mechanics and features, a class generally uses a base mechanic for all of its specs (holy power for paladins, CP for rogues, all shamans using totems as a class gimmick, etc), but microclasses involve coming up with an individual unique mechanic for each spec, instead of making a class with three spec iterations you're making four unique classes.

They are a shitty idea. Adding them would significantly increase the shit almost every team has to deal with for relatively little gain over just adding a regular class.

Maybe the answer to your problems would be to make all specs balanced and build the game around that? "Bring the player, not the class/spec" was a thing back in MoP and it worked. They just have to sit down and do it. I'm sick of seeing some specs performing bad simply because some people bring the argument "oh but one or two of your other specs are good". That's just horrible game design.

- - - Updated - - -

On the flipside though. If that one spec is not to yyour liking then you are shit out of luck if you wanted to play that one character.
With three specs you have different options instead of completely abandoning your character for a different one.

If I want to experience playing a Death Knight, but I don't like to tank then I can choose to play DPS instead. And if my chosen DPS spec is then further not to my liking then I still have one more DPS spec to fall back to before deciding that Death Knights are just not for me.

With Microclasses some, like the healer ones, would be out of hte running outright if you don't like actually healing, and only one of them are viable if you like DPSing or tanking.
Had they all been part of one class then this wouldnt necessarily be a problem. But asking players to level a character to full that they then have no options in which to diversify is pretty poor design.

I'm quite sure micro-classes aren't really meant to be a thing for new players - and anyone who plays the game already can be fine with a disclaimer that tells you "this class only has one spec so be sure you wanna play tank/heal/dps on this toon only".

[Sondrelk]

Exactly. I spend every patch focused on one single spec. Giving me 4 entirely different aesthetics and playstyles is way better than 3 things all within the same theme that I might not even enjoy in the first place is far better.

It also lets them better ensure that there is something new for everyone between those and the class skins.

Yeah, but ou would need to keep up with 4 different characters instead of 1. This wouldnt really be like druid where you can hold on to that intellect staff you got while running as tank in SoD to be able to jump immediately into healing in Sepulcher. You would need to level and gear a completely different alt. Getting it through levelling, through all the content, and then only to be worse geared than your old alt would have been.

[enak101]

In modern wow, specs are so wildly different from each other that I don't actually see an issue with 1 spec classes really..

We may as well have 36 different classes in the game with how differently every single one plays. Yeah, there's tier sets and other such things attached to classes themselves but if it wasn't for existing design every single spec could basically be its own class.

But I don't think blizz will actually go through with something like that. They would have to probably design around the fact that something is only a healer or only a tank and also would likely create further issues down the line somehow.

But I guess my point is, I wouldn't put classes sharing a couple of spells across specs or that 'identity' as an actual core reason to say no to 1 spec classes. Only really holding on to the original design of class identity is holding it back.

[huth]

Maybe the answer to your problems would be to make all specs balanced and build the game around that? "Bring the player, not the class/spec" was a thing back in MoP and it worked. They just have to sit down and do it. I'm sick of seeing some specs performing bad simply because some people bring the argument "oh but one or two of your other specs are good". That's just horrible game design.

It was a thing, but it absolutely did not work. That's the main reason they abandoned it. There's also some elements to this that you can't solve just through balancing - a dungeon group generally won't need two tanks.

[Hypester]

Yeah, but ou would need to keep up with 4 different characters instead of 1. This wouldnt really be like druid where you can hold on to that intellect staff you got while running as tank in SoD to be able to jump immediately into healing in Sepulcher. You would need to level and gear a completely different alt. Getting it through levelling, through all the content, and then only to be worse geared than your old alt would have been.

There is absolutely no proof I have on hand, but I don’t think many players actually swap roles on one character.

A DPS may swap to another spec to try it out or if it’s the strongest at the moment but I have rarely ever met someone who will actually “go healer”/“go tank” even when demanded in raid

[Archmage Xaxxas]

and anyone who plays the game already can be fine with a disclaimer that tells you "this class only has one spec so be sure you wanna play tank/heal/dps on this toon only".

Hunters, Warlocks, Mages, and Rogues don't get this kind of warning (do we? at least not anywhere demanding to read.) and we can only be DPS, so why would the 1 spec classes need that?

edit: and yes I'd consider a description of "Melee Damage" or "Healer, Ranged Damage or Melee Damage" a description, not a disclaimer.

[Hypester]

Hunters, Warlocks, Mages, and Rogues don't get this kind of warning and we can only be DPS, so why would the 1 spec classes need that?

Also this. Those classes may as well be single specs based on what people are arguing.

[Sondrelk]

I'm quite sure micro-classes aren't really meant to be a thing for new players - and anyone who plays the game already can be fine with a disclaimer that tells you "this class only has one spec so be sure you wanna play tank/heal/dps on this toon only".

I guess if Blizzard wants to be upfront about how they designed a class really poorly then they could. But that isnt even necessarily the problem. The problem is that you have a class with no wiggle room. You can't swap the spec if it underperforms, or if ou think it's poorly designed a patch, or even expansion. You can't organically swap to it midway through a raid or similar for variety without having to go through the same hoops someone with an alt would have to. You can't swap between roles depending on group composition, and while this is true for many DPS classes, there is generally always room for one more outside Mythic. Pick the tank microclass and you are straight up getting benched if there are two tanks who have priority above you in a roster.

And that is just the balancing and metagame aspect. Are you really expecting a microclass to get the full class treatment? That is an absurd amount of extra work you are adding onto the class set design workload. Especially when we alreadyy missed out on almost two full expansions of it because of designer burnout. This would be straight up adding 33% extra work for classes that will likely end up with a significantly lower amount of players than "proper" classes.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Hunters, Warlocks, Mages, and Rogues don't get this kind of warning (do we? at least not anywhere demanding to read.) and we can only be DPS, so why would the 1 spec classes need that?

Exactly this? I really don't get why this would be an issue

[Hypester]

Do DH’s just stop playing when their one DPS is not meta, and their one Tank is not meta? Because that happens all the time and the class is still popular AFAIK.

[Sondrelk]

There is absolutely no proof I have on hand, but I don’t think many players actually swap roles on one character.

A DPS may swap to another spec to try it out or if it’s the strongest at the moment but I have rarely ever met someone who will actually “go healer”/“go tank” even when demanded in raid

You don't often see players who completely change specs on the fly. But you do however see players who want to try out different specs during content lulls. Maybe a fire mage tries out arcane during timewalking, or someone swaps to tank during questing.

Micro-classes wouldnt be able to have that. You are completely and utterly stuck with your chosen class, which while true for many players, still leaves them anemic compared to a warrior or Death Knight.

[Hypester]

You don't often see players who completely change specs on the fly. But you do however see players who want to try out different specs during content lulls. Maybe a fire mage tries out arcane during timewalking, or someone swaps to tank during questing.

Micro-classes wouldnt be able to have that. You are completely and utterly stuck with your chosen class, which while true for many players, still leaves them anemic compared to a warrior or Death Knight.

It’s a problem on paper but I don’t think it’s a problem in game, because everyone would just play a druid if they were concerned about “feeling anemic”. And while druids are one of the most played the other most played is Hunter, a pure DPS with one “weird” spec a lot of people refuse to touch. So it may as well be two specs.

So when the most popular classes are anemic vs super anti-anemic....

[Sondrelk]

Do DH’s just stop playing when their one DPS is not meta, and their one Tank is not meta? Because that happens all the time and the class is still popular AFAIK.

No. But I do hear quite often that those I know who play Demon Hunter wishes it had one more spec they could try when they are bored of playing Havoc or whatever. And similarly It is quite nice to have someone who normally does DPS that can instead tank when needed.

And while this does likely have to do with it being so recent. Demon Hunters do in fact have the lowest pariticpation rate of all the classes in WoW.

[Leowyld]

Earlier, I'd said micro classes would be the Allied Races of classes. And it has a similar advantage in terms of appeal. There are expansions where races were added, that neither of the races was something someone wanted to play - or in the case of Mists, one race. But Allied Races, with their wide variety, likely contain at least one race that a player likes. When you add a single class to an expansion, if that class isn't someone's cup of tea, they don't really get anything new. I know Wrath was less interesting to me, because I prefer ranged and Death Knight wasn't. Legion added Demon Hunter, and I don't play elves. But adding several one spec classes that are different concepts and styles, most, if not all, players would like the style of one of them - instead of having three flavors of the same thing they may not like at all (as in DK and DH, for me)

And, much like Allied Races, micro classes would be a scaleable/forward looking thing. Where they could add a few here and there in future patches. I know not everyone likes the concept and I'm not sold it will actually happen. But the idea does definitely have benefits.

[manypillars]

Microclasses are a mess because being locked to a single role in a game where you to do a lot of solo overworld questing for the current expansion and all the end game content is grouped. It's already something of a mess when you choose pure DPS.

[Hypester]

Earlier, I'd said micro classes would be the Allied Races of classes. And it has a similar advantage in terms of appeal. There are expansions where races were added, that neither of the races was something someone wanted to play - or in the case of Mists, one race. But Allied Races, with their wide variety, likely contain at least one race that a player likes. When you add a single class to an expansion, if that class isn't someone's cup of tea, they don't really get anything new. I know Wrath was less interesting to me, because I prefer ranged and Death Knight wasn't. Legion added Demon Hunter, and I don't play elves. But adding several one spec classes that are different concepts and styles, most, if not all, players would like the style of one of them - instead of having three flavors of the same thing they may not like at all (as in DK and DH, for me)

And, much like Allied Races, micro classes would be a scaleable/forward looking thing. Where they could add a few here and there in future patches. I know not everyone likes the concept and I'm not sold it will actually happen. But the idea does definitely have benefits.

I agree here with the idea of adding multiple class themes in one expansion to attract more interest as opposed to just one.

If WoW is actually in its worst spot ever, why would the Devs go with just one theme like dragons when they can also do additional things for players that don’t like dragons?

They already broke the rule with how they do races.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Microclasses are a mess because being locked to a single role in a game where you to do a lot of solo overworld questing for the current expansion and all the end game content is grouped. It's already something of a mess when you choose pure DPS.

I play a pure DPS class (mage)... and I'm doing fine. I've just accepted that I'm not supposed to solo all "group" content, and find people to assist

[Leowyld]

Microclasses are a mess because being locked to a single role in a game where you to do a lot of solo overworld questing for the current expansion and all the end game content is grouped. It's already something of a mess when you choose pure DPS.

People who do want to often switch roles obviously wouldn't pick a micro class to begin with. There are already plenty of existing classes that fill that need. But I think there are plenty of players who prefer sticking with a single role, anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if it was even a majority.