Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Revamp Man]

Because that's a bunch.

It's not something I'm overly proud of, but the person who leaked WoD got the information from me, who I got from someone else, etc, etc. They posted on the WoW forums, here and somewhere else, but the expansion, while correct was wildly different from what was in that leak.

Like, it sounded completely different except for some common thematics.

It’s not a lot
They got
Demon hunter
Illidan
Macaree
Demon hunter races

The things he got wrong were
Intro cinematic
Per patch event
Illidan story
Every zone
Expansion story
Paragon Leveling system
World boss system
Demon hunter specs and abilities
Dungeons
Raid
No number squish

If you call that a lot of correct things then I must have a connection to blizzard because when I was trolling I correctly guessed 8.2 raid, 8.2.5, 8.2.3, and just as many correct points for 9.0 like the level squish

[Hitei]

"But Pure DPSers!" is just a dishonest argument.

1) Having three DPS specs is not the same as having ONE DPS spec. Nor is having both a DPS and Tank spec the same as having one.

Yes, you are "doing fine" as a mage. Do you know why? Because you have three specs, so when Arcane is trash you can just go fire and still be fine. When Assassination struggles at Mythic+ a rogue can go Outlaw.

When your single DPS microclass is not good at Mythic+, congrats, your options are now to reroll to an entirely different class, or just be garbage at that entire gameplay area. When your single DPS microclass is on the low end of rankings, congrats, you are now struggling to get into any PuG.

Not sure why you guys are acting like this hasn't already been a thing. There have been periods where things like Ret were considered bad, and ret players struggled to find a group--but at least had other options. There have been periods where feral was considered bad, and feral players absolutely struggled to find groups, but at least they had other options.

Microclasses have no options. If you are struggling to find a group, that is just your existence. There's no changing role, there's no switching to a spec that's better suited to that activity or is putting out better damage. You are stuck being ostracized.


2) Pure DPS classes only being able to DPS is not the same thing as a healer microclass being able to do nothing but heal. When you and your best friend Jimmy decide to roll a mage and warlock, you get to trade gear back and forth, and you have a slightly longer queue time from being DPS. When you and Jimmy decide to roll a Chronomancer and a Minstrel, congrats, you now literally can't queue for dungeons together, ever, because you are both healers and groups only have one healer, and even if you want to form your own group, you now need to convince 3 other people it's worth doing some janky 1 tank, 2 dps, 2 healer run. When you find a group for a thing and they are looking for a DPS, unlike every other class in the game you can't go "Oh I can ask if Jimmy wants to come" because Jimmy's spot is already being taken by you, he can't respec and come play with you, he is only a healer. This issue is even worse for a tank only

[Nadiru]

Microclasses are a mess because being locked to a single role in a game where you to do a lot of solo overworld questing for the current expansion and all the end game content is grouped. It's already something of a mess when you choose pure DPS.

Serious question, have you soloed out in the world as a healer or tank in the last decade? Non-DPS specs do not have issues clearing WQs or whatever.

[Izalla]

Also this. Those classes may as well be single specs based on what people are arguing.

I'm sure someone has already addressed this but I'm just catching up. Dps is like, the default. It is the thing people switch to when they want less headache in groups, the thing they pick when they want a quick and easy leveling experience. There are the most spots available for dps in any group setting and you will never be at odds with a friend because you both picked dps while questing together or queuing for a dungeon. There are tanks and healers who enjoy tanking and healing with their friends and guilds but have 0 interest in doing random content as anything but dps because it is too much responsibility for too little reward. Being only a dps is not anywhere near the level of being only a tank or only a healer. The amount of people who would avoid a single spec tank or healer is probably higher than the people who would actually main them. Why would Blizzard want to waste resources on that?

And again, that is only one of the many arguments against microclasses remotely likely or viable.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Microclasses have no options. If you are struggling to find a group, that is just your existence. There's no changing role, there's no switching to a spec that's better suited to that activity or is putting out better damage. You are stuck being ostracized.

AKA you avoid toxic players? sounds great. Nobody wants to be grouped with people THAT stringent that the new class can't join. Anybody who makes you change specs isn't worth playing with.

[Izalla]

"But Pure DPSers!" is just a dishonest argument.

1) Having three DPS specs is not the same as having ONE DPS spec. Nor is having both a DPS and Tank spec the same as having one.

Yes, you are "doing fine" as a mage. Do you know why? Because you have three specs, so when Arcane is trash you can just go fire and still be fine. When Assassination struggles at Mythic+ a rogue can go Outlaw.

When your single DPS microclass is not good at Mythic+, congrats, your options are now to reroll to an entirely different class, or just be garbage at that entire gameplay area. When your single DPS microclass is on the low end of rankings, congrats, you are now struggling to get into any PuG.

Not sure why you guys are acting like this hasn't already been a thing. There have been periods where things like Ret were considered bad, and ret players struggled to find a group--but at least had other options. There have been periods where feral was considered bad, and feral players absolutely struggled to find groups, but at least they had other options.

Microclasses have no options. If you are struggling to find a group, that is just your existence. There's no changing role, there's no switching to a spec that's better suited to that activity or is putting out better damage. You are stuck being ostracized.


2) Pure DPS classes only being able to DPS is not the same thing as a healer microclass being able to do nothing but heal. When you and your best friend Jimmy decide to roll a mage and warlock, you get to trade gear back and forth, and you have a slightly longer queue time from being DPS. When you and Jimmy decide to roll a Chronomancer and a Minstrel, congrats, you now literally can't queue for dungeons together, ever, because you are both healers and groups only have one healer, and even if you want to form your own group, you now need to convince 3 other people it's worth doing some janky 1 tank, 2 dps, 2 healer run. When you find a group for a thing and they are looking for a DPS, unlike every other class in the game you can't go "Oh I can ask if Jimmy wants to come" because Jimmy's spot is already being taken by you, he can't respec and come play with you, he is only a healer. This issue is even worse for a tank only

Hitei beat me to it

[Hitei]

AKA you avoid toxic players? sounds great. Nobody wants to be grouped with people THAT stringent that the new class can't join. Anybody who makes you change specs isn't worth playing with.

Yeah, let me know how that works out for you when you spend hours getting declined from trying to join a M+ group because there's a pervasive community stigma towards your class and plenty of other options to pick from.

[Nadiru]

Yeah, let me know how that works out for you when you spend hours getting declined from trying to join a M+ group because there's a pervasive community stigma towards your class and plenty of other options to pick from.

You can't be kicked from the group if you're the party leader.

[Nymrohd]

You can't be kicked from the group if you're the party leader.

And people flock to the party of the dude with the crap spec all the time.

I mean you might get a group eventually. But you will end up spending more time waiting to make a group than actually playing the game.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Yeah, let me know how that works out for you when you spend hours getting declined from trying to join a M+ group because there's a pervasive community stigma towards your class and plenty of other options to pick from.

Guess I'd just.. reconsider my goals? It's that easy.

Any dungeons M+ offers are available in Normal or Heroic, eventually if not immediately. If I do all 8 of Shadowlands dungeons on Heroic, am I really getting NEW content if I up the difficulty? or am I just retreading where I've been.

Letting "a pervasive community stigma" dictate your life and fun is about the worst thing you could do. Look at the last 2 years of IRL and see why.

[Izalla]

Then they should just play a different class. If they dont want to tank or heal then they can roll a class that has that option. If I want to tank or heal I dont do it on my hunter so it's really no different from how pure dps are now.

I mean, yeah, if you don't want to deal with such things you would obviously pick a different class. But why the heck would Blizzard want to devote a TON of resources (permanently) for something that lots of people will avoid and will otherwise cause issues for those who decide not to avoid it?

[Ersula]

AKA you avoid toxic players? sounds great. Nobody wants to be grouped with people THAT stringent that the new class can't join. Anybody who makes you change specs isn't worth playing with.

Yeah I love doing dungeons with my friends: 2 dps and three healers /s

[Buliwyf the Omen]

Do people that have played this game the past couple years seriously think that Microclasses, and even worse, one spec healer/tank classes are a good idea?

Imagine if something like Feral or pre-9.2 Survival is a one-spec Class. I dont think you have to say much more.

I have played DH since its introduction of Legion, primarily as DPS, but if that Class had no tank spec to dodge on I would have deleted my DH long time ago. All the people playing Paladin or Priest solely for the DPS component are just as limited and that is terrible.

You need to get rid of your entire character if the spec is not performing decently if even above average.

Maybe the extremely casual playerbase does not care enough about its issues but Microclasses are definitely not the way to go.

[Dragon ANX]

Yeah, let me know how that works out for you when you spend hours getting declined from trying to join a M+ group because there's a pervasive community stigma towards your class and plenty of other options to pick from.

I've been playing fire mage when it was at the very bottom of dps spec in M+ and i still did it, it took more time to find a group, but that was a fact that me as a player that wanted to keep my Fire Mage fantasy up accepted.

I mean, yeah, if you don't want to deal with such things you would obviously pick a different class. But why the heck would Blizzard want to devote a TON of resources (permanently) for something that lots of people will avoid and will otherwise cause issues for those who decide not to avoid it?

For the same reason why mechagnomes and goblins exist, there is someone out there that want it. Not everything needs or should be popular.

You can't be kicked from the group if you're the party leader.

I would simply run my own keys instead of getting carried

Exactly.

[Izalla]

I don't do mythics or pug raids or even really play with friends these days, AND I'm the kind of crazy altoholic who has at least one character for each spec for nearly all classes. So as far as my gameplay goes, microclasses wouldn't really affect me except in the sense that if I get a tinker and it only has one spec when it had the class fantasy of a full 3 spec class I would be very cranky. I would be that person slogging to max level as a janky healer and switching to a different character if I want to play a different role.

But I'm not the majority and most people don't play like me. I just really cannot see how they would benefit the game overall as whole rather than pulling resources from other things (could gave had a few new heritage style sets but they needed to make 4 separate tier sets for the handful of people who chose the micro classes!) or what possible argument one could make to Blizz to convince them it wouldn't be a terrible idea.

And personally I would rather just have gradual, fully fledged new classes with multiple specs, and NOT only once every 6 or 7 years.

[Raetary]

Guess I'd just.. reconsider my goals? It's that easy.

Any dungeons M+ offers are available in Normal or Heroic, eventually if not immediately. If I do all 8 of Shadowlands dungeons on Heroic, am I really getting NEW content if I up the difficulty? or am I just retreading where I've been.

Letting "a pervasive community stigma" dictate your life and fun is about the worst thing you could do. Look at the last 2 years of IRL and see why.

Are you serious?
Your solution is... basically abandoning everything post normal dungeons?

[Raxacorico]

Well then they'd just have to make them work??? Like, they obviously don't have to make survival work because there are 2 better specs. But godspeed to them if they want to make 1spec classes work.

And nobody said they can't add more specs along the expansion just to boost the numbers because people will obviously want to try them in the middle of expansion.

Todd: It just works

[Alanar]

I mean the Harbinger of Tentacles.

Never heard of it.

[Izalla]

For the same reason why mechagnomes and goblins exist, there is someone out there that want it. Not everything needs or should be popular.

Mechagnomes already existed as models and were just based on gnomes anyway, and a new race is nothing compared to a new class in terms of resources, especially an allied race that reuses a previous NPC or playable model.

[Sondrelk]

I've been playing fire mage when it was at the very bottom of dps spec in M+ and i still did it, it took more time to find a group, but that was a fact that me as a player that wanted to keep my Fire Mage fantasy up accepted.

There is still a case where someone didnt enjoy playing an underperforming spec, or didnt enjoy how Fire played in general, and then had the option to choose between changing spec or class. Changing spec obviously being far less difficult to do.

A micro-class would always end up making a new character instead, hich means that for players who like changing playstyles often they are a complete no-go unless they also enjoy keeping up with several alts at once.