Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Ersula]

The development of microclasses have two major hurdles:

1.) Adding a normal class would be easier, more fun for the players

2.) Adding no class would be easier, more fun for the players. Because microclasses are stupid & not fun.

And fast forward to when they add elective specs & and all the pro-microclasses people are like "see how fun microclasses are?" even though that's not what microclasses are. So we might as well just abandon this website entirely because like class skins, its a cancer that will never be removed.

[Wildmoon]

Microclasses are too much work. 3-4 separate art sets are too much. Not to mention future upkeep. 4 tier sets for example. 1 full class is far easier to implement.

[manypillars]

after looking at the elf slapfight on the official forums I've decided to craft my own leak to please them. It's an impossible task, and they are sure to be even more angry at me for posting this, so let's get started: Today I Choose Violence

WoW 10.0 Dragonflight
-High Elves are now a full Alliance race, AND they can be all classes.
-Void Elves are no longer playable and all existing player characters have been made High Elves.
-Blood Elves are no longer playable and all existing player characters have been transferred to the Alliance as High Elves.
-Vulpera are no longer playable.
-Story centers on Alleria and her quest to return Quel'thalas to its rightful home in the Alliance.
-To address faction balance issues, the Horde is no longer playable.
-Dwarves are no longer playable.
-Undercity will be renewed as the reborn kingdom of Lorderon.
-Undead are no longer playable.
-Vulpera players are banned. UwU
-The Mag'har have fled Azeroth because they'd prefer to take their chances with Yrel and the Lightbound than deal with the oncoming elf onslaught.
-The Sunwell explodes because Alleria didn't quite get the memo last time, leading to a light vs void patch wrapping up the final raid.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Are you serious?
Your solution is... basically abandoning everything post normal dungeons?

Don't be silly and imply that a 1 Spec DPS class couldn't fit into a 20 man Normal Raid.

In my experience, decent people expect you to peform "Well" in a raid. Be useful, help with mechanics that you've learned, and output enough damage to compare to another class.

If Blizzard designs a class that CAN'T do those 3 things in a Raid, that's not the player's fault for choosing the awesome new gameplay flavor, it's on Blizzard.

Of course, that won't happen and you're just asking these things for the sake of it.

Like, they obviously don't have to make survival work because there are 2 better specs.

Which is a shame. I mained Survival in Legion and loved it more than any Hunter spec before, but Blizz caved on their melee vision for that Spec, and now it's a shoddy ranged pet spammer again. Lame.

[Raetary]

Never heard of it.

The one guy that keeps talking about a certain purple elf that looks sorta similar like Sylvanas.

[Sondrelk]

The development of microclasses have two major hurdles:

1.) Adding a normal class would be easier, more fun for the players

2.) Adding no class would be easier, more fun for the players. Because microclasses are stupid & not fun.

Also: Adding 4 new microclasses means either a 33% increase in class identity stuff, as well as making future class specific stuff difficult to implement fairly.
OR
Not giving the microclasses much attention that is expected of other classes.

Either option is pretty bad.

[Alanar]

The one guy that keeps talking about a certain purple elf that looks sorta similar like Sylvanas.

I though that was the forbidden one. Hsrbringer of tentacles sounds way to cool for him.

- - - Updated - - -

after looking at the elf slapfight on the official forums I've decided to craft my own leak to please them. It's an impossible task, and they are sure to be even more angry at me for posting this, so let's get started: Today I Choose Violence

You will just get some REN'DOREI fans crying how amazing this sounds!

Ita REN'DOREI btw.. not sure if I mentioned that, no no no void elves, but REN'DOREI.

[Izalla]

Also: Adding 4 new microclasses means either a 33% increase in class identity stuff, as well as making future class specific stuff difficult to implement fairly.
OR
Not giving the microclasses much attention that is expected of other classes.

Either option is pretty bad.

Exactly. Like it's not a stupid thing to want a bunch of new options to play as. It's just... this implementation would cause way more problems for Blizzard and the community at large than it would solve for the people like me who like having a shit load of single spec focused characters. I cannot fathom Blizzard seeing 4 microclasses (let alone more future ones) as being worth the amount of work they would require to make and then maintain, especially for the pay off of only a tiny fraction of the playerbase ever treating them as anything other than something for an alt at best.

[Raetary]

Healers and tanks are highly limited spots in raids and dungeons.

If you are playing with a friend, who is also a healer/tank microclass, you are flat out barred from ever playing again with them.
If your guildmates are forming a dungeon group but already got a healer/tank, yet you are a healer/tank microclass, there is no 'i'll just swap to another spec', you are just flat out barred from playing with them.

And while pure dps classes exist, dps have 3 times (literally) as many group spots in all forms of content.
2 dps players can form a group on their own, 2 healers or 2 tanks can't.
There'll always be room for more dps players, whereas this doesn't apply for healers/tanks.

[Dragon ANX]

Mechagnomes already existed as models and were just based on gnomes anyway, and a new race is nothing compared to a new class in terms of resources, especially an allied race that reuses a previous NPC or playable model.

Yep, an NPC is way more easy than the commitment of new animations for every class, armor and etc every new content patch.

There is still a case where someone didnt enjoy playing an underperforming spec, or didnt enjoy how Fire played in general, and then had the option to choose between changing spec or class. Changing spec obviously being far less difficult to do.

A micro-class would always end up making a new character instead, hich means that for players who like changing playstyles often they are a complete no-go unless they also enjoy keeping up with several alts at once.

Yep i do agree with you that the option of changing spec is more confortable for other people, but there are people like me or @Fahrad Wagner that only play one spec and there are also people that came or still play other mmos where classes dont have extra spec thefore they already know the negatives of playing a tank/healer only class or playing a weak dps class.
I also play BDO and there i main a SHAI a class that is the only true support class of the game, but because i play Shai i cant do 1v1 pvp because the class was designed to be horrible in solo PvP, so i accepted that every time that someone tries do PK me i'll either have to give up my grinding spot or call some friend or guildmate to help.

[manypillars]

You will just get some REN'DOREI fans crying how amazing this sounds!

Ita REN'DOREI btw.. not sure if I mentioned that, no no no void elves, but REN'DOREI.

I made no mention of which kind of elves were slapfighting.

[Sondrelk]

Yep, an NPC is way more easy than the commitment of new animations for every class, armor and etc every new content patch.



Yep i do agree with you that the option of changing spec is more confortable for other people, but there are people like me or @Fahrad Wagner that only play one spec and there are also people that came or still play other mmos where classes dont have extra spec thefore they already know the negatives of playing a tank/healer only class or playing a weak dps class.
I also play BDO and there i main a SHAI a class that is the only true support class of the game, but because i play Shai i cant do 1v1 pvp because the class was designed to be horrible in solo PvP, so i accepted that every time that someone tries do PK me i'll either have to give up my grinding spot or call some friend or guildmate to help.

I also only play a single spec. The last time I gave any serious attention to any hunter spec besides MM is in Legion when I wanted the mage tower weapons, and towards the very end when I decided to do Loremaster while using a speed-based Survival build.

I can absolutely agree that many players are allegiant to a single spec, and wouldnt change it for anything but a complete revamp of the spec as a whole.
But I still think that having that option is important. Especially if the Microclass is tank or healer only.

[Izalla]

I also only play a single spec. The last time I gave any serious attention to any hunter spec besides MM is in Legion when I wanted the mage tower weapons, and towards the very end when I decided to do Loremaster while using a speed-based Survival build.

I can absolutely agree that many players are allegiant to a single spec, and wouldnt change it for anything but a complete revamp of the spec as a whole.
But I still think that having that option is important. Especially if the Microclass is tank or healer only.

*cries in bow-loving former survival spec*

[Alanar]

I made no mention of which kind of elves were slapfighting.

The violence leak makes sure on who will jump on it
Dont worry.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

I forget who it was that made this point, but I heard it somewhere recently how:

We should be careful not to stifle the ideas Micro-classes/new specs the same way we used to stifle the ideas of new Races behind 'expected features.' if that makes sense.


Allied Races were the means of adding a TON of new races, but NONE of the hold-ups we all grew to expect, like New Starting Zones.

If Blizzard was beholdened to giving all 8 Allied Races an in-depth starting zone like Pandaren, we'd just never have got Allied Races. We'd have at best got maybe 2 of them added, and had the zones to go along with them.

We used to be lucky to get 1 or 2 new races every 2-4 years, and BFA broke that tradition and shoveled out 8 in 2 years time.


If we apply this to classes and the desired spec/class fantasies players have in mind these days,

we could either -HOPE- Blizz adds the 1 or 2 classes you/I want over someone else's desired class over a span of the next 2-6 years,
or maybe it's time to give Class/Spec fantasies the Allied Race treatment and hand out a multitude of flavors during the course of 1 expansion.


I agree there's a big difference between a Class/Spec and a Race in terms of development, but nevertheless AR's added 8 sets of Racials that could've been integrated into a Class anyway, so I think there's -some- comparison to be made.

[Dragon ANX]

Just a disclaimer
I dont like the idea of micro-classes because i think that adding then as 4th specs would be way more viable and fun.
I'm just pointing out that this two arguments that we are debating right now are arguments that i dont think that are really good/strong ones against it.

[Ersula]

I forget who it was that made this point, but I heard it somewhere recently how:

We should be careful not to stifle the ideas Micro-classes/new specs the same way we used to stifle the ideas of new Races behind 'expected features.' if that makes sense.

We're not poo-pooing microclasses because they're new. We're pointing out massive imbalance of its fun to problems ratio: They aren't any more fun than how classes work now & create a ton of problems you really don't have an easy fix for.

[Sondrelk]

New Survival is so much better. It actually has a class fantasy now.

Bullshit! That class has no idea what it wants to be. Sometimes it's a trapper, sometimes it's a gadgeteer, and sometimes it flails its spear around like a madman.

It also has basically no survivability to speak of in terms of utility abilities, which I think is it's biggest crime.

[Nadiru]

And people flock to the party of the dude with the crap spec all the time.

I mean you might get a group eventually. But you will end up spending more time waiting to make a group than actually playing the game.

You won't spend more time waiting to make a group than you spend waiting to join a group.

[Wildmoon]

Bullshit! That class has no idea what it wants to be. Sometimes it's a trapper, sometimes it's a gadgeteer, and sometimes it flails its spear around like a madman.

It also has basically no survivability to speak of in terms of utility abilities, which I think is it's biggest crime.

The theme of the spec is pretty good. Trapper and gadgeteer go together. The only wrong part is the name survival. It sounds like a tank spec.