Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Leaker69]

They tried and failed with a vaguely related concept because of poor implementation and planning, so they should never add anything else again? Maybe they should learn from the lessons of their failures and make something good with the systems created instead?

That would be good, but I don't think it would happen. Sort of like I am sure Allied Races were BfA feature and there is no point in expecting more in the future.

[Fartlas]

What would they have to do to stop people from rushing to endgame? It's playerbase, not game. Even Classic with 1:1 "old model" had people rushing to endgame. And if you don't want be one of these people, just.. don't.

Not to mention nowadays we have 2-3 weeks grace period between launch of expansion and launch of season/raid. On top of that SL didn't have long list of chores to do ASAP, just do your Torghast and 8 dungeons before end of week and you were ready for any content.

It's not really the playerbase when the game gives you no incentives to actually not rush to the endgame. There is nothing to do before that. So yes, it is very much a game issue. On your topic of Classic, yes you are correct, but that's mostly because Classic was actually really bad but an even worse playerbase back in the day made it look like this amazing thing

[Buliwyf the Omen]

No shit, the problem is there's nothing to do at endgame compared to literally every MMO on the market. The only time they ever cared about trying to keep a consistent flow of activity and options was Legion and it was wonderful.

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Yeah dude, let's waste yet another expansion redesigning every class again, abandon all expansion feature announcements to keep iterating over the same shit nobody cares about. If the current content still fucking sucks expansions later, maybe they should try adding different content instead of continuing to iterate on the same garbage only a small percent of players actually care bout?

The Classes wouldnt end up this bad if Blizzard didnt intentionally butcher them starting from WoD and going specifically into Legion with their horrible Spec focus.

You're making it sound like endgame content suffers because there is not enough varied casual content? Currently you can do pet battles, transmog farming, alt leveling, professions and all the available endgame content like PvP, BGs, Arenas, Raids and Dungeons aswell as the Covenants. I dont really see why there needs to be more.

The problem is that the endgame content is straight up shit. Who enjoys running into the Maw every day, Korthia, Torghast, the horrible Legendaries exactly? And around that you have poor Class design, and to top it off, PvP is an absolute nightmare that is by now completly ignored by Blizzard and the Raids and Dungeons are as dull as ever.

And you want to tell me, this is fixxed by housing and NPC dating, and similiar things like that?

[Fartlas]

As for my own two cents, I can only speak from the position of a former Mythic raider since that is the type of content I love to do in WoW. Stop making things a goddamn chore that I have to do to match the tempo of the game. Don't give me arbitrary numbers I have to hit for certain things so I can not hamper my guilds progression. This has been a goddamn problem since Legion and it's not something that really went away (Can't speak much for Shadowlands because my guild basically broke up then so we stopped playing, but from what I have briefly seen it did not change much).

At a certain point WoW felt more like a job rather than a game, and I really don't like that.

[Wildmoon]

The Classes wouldnt end up this bad if Blizzard didnt intentionally butcher them starting from WoD and going specifically into Legion with their horrible Spec focus.

You're making it sound like endgame content suffers because there is not enough varied casual content? Currently you can do pet battles, transmog farming, alt leveling, professions and all the available endgame content like PvP, BGs, Arenas, Raids and Dungeons aswell as the Covenants. I dont really see why there needs to be more.

The problem is that the endgame content is straight up shit. Who enjoys running into the Maw every day, Korthia, Torghast, the horrible Legendaries exactly? And around that you have poor Class design, and to top it off, PvP is an absolute nightmare that is by now completly ignored by Blizzard and the Raids and Dungeons are as dull as ever.

And you want to tell me, this is fixxed by housing and NPC dating, and similiar things like that?

There's nothing wrong with actual raids and dungeons in WoW. And sometimes I wonder what people mean by broken classes. I have played resto druid since forever and the spec is fine right now.

[KayRule]

The Classes wouldnt end up this bad if Blizzard didnt intentionally butcher them starting from WoD and going specifically into Legion with their horrible Spec focus.

You're making it sound like endgame content suffers because there is not enough varied casual content? Currently you can do pet battles, transmog farming, alt leveling, professions and all the available endgame content like PvP, BGs, Arenas, Raids and Dungeons aswell as the Covenants. I dont really see why there needs to be more.

The problem is that the endgame content is straight up shit. Who enjoys running into the Maw every day, Korthia, Torghast, the horrible Legendaries exactly? And around that you have poor Class design, and to top it off, PvP is an absolute nightmare that is by now completly ignored by Blizzard and the Raids and Dungeons are as dull as ever.

And you want to tell me, this is fixxed by housing and NPC dating, and similiar things like that?

Considering, like you said, most endgame content is fucking shit, yes. If I could work on things I would actually like instead of having to slog through endgame systems Blizzard has cemented will be terrible for a decade, I would rather have those options. I rather enjoyed Island Expeditions and would have loved to have seen them expanded upon and developed throughout BfA, instead of being abandoned completely outside of releasing "more islands" that were available in the alpha and beta but left out on launch. I would enjoy more optional content of varying depths and focuses rather than ever step foot back on the core endgame treadmill.

[keygy]

Nearly all my friends aswell as me included quit the Game because the end content is miserable. And you think stuff like NPC dating will get the masses back? For sure. Pet Battles and Garrisons were similiar and did jackall.

When the Game has a good core kit, they can add things like that. Before though? No. Put all resources finally into making the Game good and not making it drag as long as possible.

what do you mean as "end content" because if youre are talking about raids,pvp or m+ you are trolling hardcore, like that's the part that is in a good state, they need some QA there but is not in a miserable state, the problem of wow its content outside of "endgame" and a fix to rental power systems.

[Lady Atia]

As long as progress is not tied to a couple of repeatable tasks but can be gained from pretty much everything like Valor in MoP, I'm game. Would prefer it to not be 100% timegated (like let us grind a bit as well but with strong diminishing returns)

Yeah well I think the hearthstone model works quite well - they give you 3 big weeklies, one daily per day and everything else gives XP. But I agree there shouldn't be hard timegating like we had with the current Renown system - you should be able to grind it out if you want to!

[KayRule]

There's nothing wrong with actual raids and dungeons in WoW. And sometimes I wonder what people mean by broken classes. I have played resto druid since forever and the spec is fine right now.

I think the big problem is Blizzard never lets classes settle anymore. We almost routinely get massive "overhauls" every expansion, and then if something feels fucky or wrong, it doesn't get fixed because all they're able to do between expansions is adjust numbers and cooldowns instead of doing any work on classes. If your class or spec sucks on expansion launch, and the problem isn't a simple numbers fix, you're out of luck until the next "class overhaul" next expansion.

I think the big problem is, there is expectation by the userbase for classes to grow and change every expansion, because for the first few expansions getting new abilities was expected. As the problems with class scope and bloat became apparent, we keep getting these weird half measures to give the illusion classes are still "growing" expansion to expansion, because if they didn't the fanbase would cry that Blizzard was ignoring class design. This is the same userbase that cried over a Level Squish. Some systems DON'T need to continually grow and change, some of them should reach a peak and then be refined over time, but if you launch an expansion without massive changes to every class the community is going to call you lazy while applauding more Order Hall reskins.

[Wangming]

You're making it sound like endgame content suffers because there is not enough varied casual content? Currently you can do pet battles, transmog farming, alt leveling, professions and all the available endgame content like PvP, BGs, Arenas, Raids and Dungeons aswell as the Covenants. I dont really see why there needs to be more.

Imagine listing "alt leveling" as content. Oh wow, what a creative new system you have there. Making another character. Also doing dungeons and farming them for transmog as separate peaces of content.

It sure looks like there is fuck all to do besides the usual stuff.

Also I love it that farming transmog is cool varied content, but farming furniture would be pointless side content.

[Wildmoon]

I think the big problem is Blizzard never lets classes settle anymore. We almost routinely get massive "overhauls" every expansion, and then if something feels fucky or wrong, it doesn't get fixed because all they're able to do between expansions is adjust numbers and cooldowns instead of doing any work on classes. If your class or spec sucks on expansion launch, and the problem isn't a simple numbers fix, you're out of luck until the next "class overhaul" next expansion.

I think the big problem is, there is expectation by the userbase for classes to grow and change every expansion, because for the first few expansions getting new abilities was expected. As the problems with class scope and bloat became apparent, we keep getting these weird half measures to give the illusion classes are still "growing" expansion to expansion, because if they didn't the fanbase would cry that Blizzard was ignoring class design. This is the same userbase that cried over a Level Squish. Some systems DON'T need to continually grow and change, some of them should reach a peak and then be refined over time, but if you launch an expansion without massive changes to every class the community is going to call you lazy while applauding more Order Hall reskins.

Most of the specs are not like that. There are a few that keeps changing constantly. Mostly they remain mostly the same for very long baring new abilities that tweak gameplay a bit. I will give an example of the spec I play like resto druid. The core gameplay of the spec remains the same since like forever.

[Fartlas]

Most of the specs are not like that. There are a few that keeps changing constantly. Mostly they remain mostly the same for very long baring new abilities that tweak gameplay a bit. I will give an example of the spec I play like resto druid. The core gameplay of the spec remains the same since like forever.

Let me direct you to the history of Demo locks.

[Wildmoon]

Let me direct you to the history of Demo locks.

As I said there are exceptions but mostly they do not change that much in the core part.

[Izalla]

I wish they stopped timegating the story. I think at least Naz'jatar and Zereth Mortis do have a full set of questlines and side quests in them that explore the entire zone; most other sandbox zones do not. But even with the quests being there the timegating breaks the pace too much. If you are going to gate the story do it in a meaningful and interactive way like with Isle of Thunder.

Isle of Thunder was the first time since I started playing in early 2009 that I actually kept up with my dailies every single day and enjoyed doing so. I didn't commit to anything like that again until the start of BFA when I made sure I hit exalted with the vulpera ASAP in case they released them as a race haha

[Syegfryed]

They killed Admiral Taylor in WoD specifically because of Nazgrim's death in SoO. They're having Anduin go Thrall-mode and peace out because the Horde lost Sylvanas

The only time it's ever been the other way around was killing Vol'jin because of Varian, and he's coming back so it doesn't even matter anymore.

What alliance lost when the horde lost Garrosh? gallywix? Saurfang? Zaela of the dragonmaw? Even when alliance lost the dwarf leader they got 3 in return, horde spend years without an orc or a troll leader, Admiral taylor and Nazgrin are small potatoes compared with what they did with vol'jin

[Revamp Man]

We will neither get housing or NPC dating.

Biggest waste of resources.

They need to fix the Game and not add pointless stuff like the above.

Yes because the team that designs class gameplay is the same team that designs social systems

[Hitei]

Also I love it that farming transmog is cool varied content, but farming furniture would be pointless side content.

Shopping for clothes is enjoyable for many people, but shopping for a new dresser or wardrobe is something people are generally significantly less enthusiastic about. Transmog is a feature you can use every second you are playing, from roleplaying to race to world first, and RBGs to farming herbs or fish. Furniture is something that sits in an isolated room you don't see unless you are actively not playing any of the main parts of the game people spend most of their time playing.

[KayRule]

What alliance lost when the horde lost Garrosh? gallywix? Saurfang? Zaela of the dragonmaw?

Nothing, as it should be. There shouldn't need to be a balance when a character is written off or killed. That's fucking terrible storytelling. That's how we get garbage like Vol'jin getting killed off.

[keygy]

then maybe im the exception but i like when blizzard overhauls the classes, for me the problems if that blizzard touch classes but we are essentialy with the same core specs but changing some things here and there, i wanna see a new core mechanics, im bored of the same gameplays after 6-8 years of the same talents, we need fresh things.

For me adding a new talent that add a button that you press each 30 or 45s is not "gameplay changes" for example dk frost, how many expansion we have BoS?(is only a example a like a lot bos talent), you can add talents or remove talents but the core mechanic of sindragosa its more or less the same, if you dont remove the core talents you are not gonna see new gameplays, because you are dragging mechanics from past expansions.

we have 4 expansion now from wod to SL now, i think its time to be radical and do new things to the classes.

[Dracullus]

It's not really the playerbase when the game gives you no incentives to actually not rush to the endgame. There is nothing to do before that.

I don't understand. In expansion you have ~8 hours of narrative content that is even mandatory to do before endgame. You can do it on any pace you want, game not rush you reach engame ASAP, game doesn't slow you down. Every minute before you hit max level is filled with content. Even better, game gives you no incentive to reach endgame with some faster skiping methods - no, you have to finish whole main story to reach endgame.

For sure I wouldn't want cruise new players through every expansion and try all older raids. SL leveling was best decision for WoW in years. Many people complain about vertical progression in WoW, but in leveling we finally have freedom. Only missing piece is enabling to do alternative expansions for 50-60 levels on alts.