1. #43261
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    They tried and failed with a vaguely related concept because of poor implementation and planning, so they should never add anything else again? Maybe they should learn from the lessons of their failures and make something good with the systems created instead?
    This is true, and since we are all so keen on comparing XIV to WoW and vice versa, XIV has consistently for the past expansion or two been improving the base game (ARR) experience because the original implementation was just fucking awful. Now that I go back to leveling alts, It's actually an enjoyable experience. They remade certain dungeons from grounds up and made some things (Pandemonium) not make me want to shoot myself in the face.

  2. #43262
    I really do not care about housing or worse dating. I hope it's not a feature. WoW has incredible core endgame already. Expand and improve it.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2022-04-17 at 11:38 AM.

  3. #43263
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    No shit, the problem is there's nothing to do at endgame compared to literally every MMO on the market. The only time they ever cared about trying to keep a consistent flow of activity and options was Legion and it was wonderful.
    There's plenty to do in the endgame, PvP, PvE, Achievement hunting, RP (If you are into that), pet battles, etc.

  4. #43264
    plant it on Bloodmyst. we're getting a reason to revamp the draenei isles, clear them from contamination lorewise and a cool pink tree to look at.

  5. #43265
    Quote Originally Posted by Fartlas View Post
    WoW has been a 'Rush to the endgame' game for a long ass time now, I don't see them changing the model any time soon.
    What would they have to do to stop people from rushing to endgame? It's playerbase, not game. Even Classic with 1:1 "old model" had people rushing to endgame. And if you don't want be one of these people, just.. don't.

    Not to mention nowadays we have 2-3 weeks grace period between launch of expansion and launch of season/raid. On top of that SL didn't have long list of chores to do ASAP, just do your Torghast and 8 dungeons before end of week and you were ready for any content.

  6. #43266
    Quote Originally Posted by Fartlas View Post
    This is true, and since we are all so keen on comparing XIV to WoW and vice versa, XIV has consistently for the past expansion or two been improving the base game (ARR) experience because the original implementation was just fucking awful. Now that I go back to leveling alts, It's actually an enjoyable experience. They remade certain dungeons from grounds up and made some things (Pandemonium) not make me want to shoot myself in the face.
    Yeah, and that is a good point. I think thing's like Exile's Reach, Chromie Time, level scaling have all been good steps, but the problem is it's just steps.

    Blizzard has basically abandoned anything not introduced in it's current expansion, and they usually end up abandoning over half those feature throughout the expansion. Professions have been completely let go for almost a decade now. Doing any post MoP expansion content in Chromie time is a bizarre field trip through abandoned features and systems.

    I would love for Blizzard to turn around and give some attention and focus to their growing pile of abandoned, broken content that consists of 90% of the content people will play when creating an alt or leveling for the first time, but they seem pretty adamant on moving forward and growing that pile patch by patch.

  7. #43267
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buliwyf the Omen View Post
    Nearly all my friends aswell as me included quit the Game because the end content is miserable. And you think stuff like NPC dating will get the masses back? For sure. Pet Battles and Garrisons were similiar and did jackall.

    When the Game has a good core kit, they can add things like that. Before though? No. Put all resources finally into making the Game good and not making it drag as long as possible.
    You and all your friends are a statistically insignificant ammount of players, you do know that, right?

    Garrisons were a poorly implemented and restrictive system implemented 8 years ago. It doesn't meen following current trends would be wrong.

    But let's suppose you are right. Do you have anything more specific in mind besides making raiding and pvp good again?

  8. #43268
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    They tried and failed with a vaguely related concept because of poor implementation and planning, so they should never add anything else again? Maybe they should learn from the lessons of their failures and make something good with the systems created instead?
    That would be good, but I don't think it would happen. Sort of like I am sure Allied Races were BfA feature and there is no point in expecting more in the future.

  9. #43269
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    What would they have to do to stop people from rushing to endgame? It's playerbase, not game. Even Classic with 1:1 "old model" had people rushing to endgame. And if you don't want be one of these people, just.. don't.

    Not to mention nowadays we have 2-3 weeks grace period between launch of expansion and launch of season/raid. On top of that SL didn't have long list of chores to do ASAP, just do your Torghast and 8 dungeons before end of week and you were ready for any content.
    It's not really the playerbase when the game gives you no incentives to actually not rush to the endgame. There is nothing to do before that. So yes, it is very much a game issue. On your topic of Classic, yes you are correct, but that's mostly because Classic was actually really bad but an even worse playerbase back in the day made it look like this amazing thing

  10. #43270
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    No shit, the problem is there's nothing to do at endgame compared to literally every MMO on the market. The only time they ever cared about trying to keep a consistent flow of activity and options was Legion and it was wonderful.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah dude, let's waste yet another expansion redesigning every class again, abandon all expansion feature announcements to keep iterating over the same shit nobody cares about. If the current content still fucking sucks expansions later, maybe they should try adding different content instead of continuing to iterate on the same garbage only a small percent of players actually care bout?
    The Classes wouldnt end up this bad if Blizzard didnt intentionally butcher them starting from WoD and going specifically into Legion with their horrible Spec focus.

    You're making it sound like endgame content suffers because there is not enough varied casual content? Currently you can do pet battles, transmog farming, alt leveling, professions and all the available endgame content like PvP, BGs, Arenas, Raids and Dungeons aswell as the Covenants. I dont really see why there needs to be more.

    The problem is that the endgame content is straight up shit. Who enjoys running into the Maw every day, Korthia, Torghast, the horrible Legendaries exactly? And around that you have poor Class design, and to top it off, PvP is an absolute nightmare that is by now completly ignored by Blizzard and the Raids and Dungeons are as dull as ever.

    And you want to tell me, this is fixxed by housing and NPC dating, and similiar things like that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It just sounded ominous as if he would save that info for future use to something, that's all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Next class is Necromancer. Tinker will never happen.

    You read first here.
    Oh yeah?

  11. #43271
    As for my own two cents, I can only speak from the position of a former Mythic raider since that is the type of content I love to do in WoW. Stop making things a goddamn chore that I have to do to match the tempo of the game. Don't give me arbitrary numbers I have to hit for certain things so I can not hamper my guilds progression. This has been a goddamn problem since Legion and it's not something that really went away (Can't speak much for Shadowlands because my guild basically broke up then so we stopped playing, but from what I have briefly seen it did not change much).

    At a certain point WoW felt more like a job rather than a game, and I really don't like that.

  12. #43272
    Quote Originally Posted by Buliwyf the Omen View Post
    The Classes wouldnt end up this bad if Blizzard didnt intentionally butcher them starting from WoD and going specifically into Legion with their horrible Spec focus.

    You're making it sound like endgame content suffers because there is not enough varied casual content? Currently you can do pet battles, transmog farming, alt leveling, professions and all the available endgame content like PvP, BGs, Arenas, Raids and Dungeons aswell as the Covenants. I dont really see why there needs to be more.

    The problem is that the endgame content is straight up shit. Who enjoys running into the Maw every day, Korthia, Torghast, the horrible Legendaries exactly? And around that you have poor Class design, and to top it off, PvP is an absolute nightmare that is by now completly ignored by Blizzard and the Raids and Dungeons are as dull as ever.

    And you want to tell me, this is fixxed by housing and NPC dating, and similiar things like that?
    There's nothing wrong with actual raids and dungeons in WoW. And sometimes I wonder what people mean by broken classes. I have played resto druid since forever and the spec is fine right now.

  13. #43273
    Quote Originally Posted by Buliwyf the Omen View Post
    The Classes wouldnt end up this bad if Blizzard didnt intentionally butcher them starting from WoD and going specifically into Legion with their horrible Spec focus.

    You're making it sound like endgame content suffers because there is not enough varied casual content? Currently you can do pet battles, transmog farming, alt leveling, professions and all the available endgame content like PvP, BGs, Arenas, Raids and Dungeons aswell as the Covenants. I dont really see why there needs to be more.

    The problem is that the endgame content is straight up shit. Who enjoys running into the Maw every day, Korthia, Torghast, the horrible Legendaries exactly? And around that you have poor Class design, and to top it off, PvP is an absolute nightmare that is by now completly ignored by Blizzard and the Raids and Dungeons are as dull as ever.

    And you want to tell me, this is fixxed by housing and NPC dating, and similiar things like that?
    Considering, like you said, most endgame content is fucking shit, yes. If I could work on things I would actually like instead of having to slog through endgame systems Blizzard has cemented will be terrible for a decade, I would rather have those options. I rather enjoyed Island Expeditions and would have loved to have seen them expanded upon and developed throughout BfA, instead of being abandoned completely outside of releasing "more islands" that were available in the alpha and beta but left out on launch. I would enjoy more optional content of varying depths and focuses rather than ever step foot back on the core endgame treadmill.

  14. #43274
    Quote Originally Posted by Buliwyf the Omen View Post
    Nearly all my friends aswell as me included quit the Game because the end content is miserable. And you think stuff like NPC dating will get the masses back? For sure. Pet Battles and Garrisons were similiar and did jackall.

    When the Game has a good core kit, they can add things like that. Before though? No. Put all resources finally into making the Game good and not making it drag as long as possible.
    what do you mean as "end content" because if youre are talking about raids,pvp or m+ you are trolling hardcore, like that's the part that is in a good state, they need some QA there but is not in a miserable state, the problem of wow its content outside of "endgame" and a fix to rental power systems.

  15. #43275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    As long as progress is not tied to a couple of repeatable tasks but can be gained from pretty much everything like Valor in MoP, I'm game. Would prefer it to not be 100% timegated (like let us grind a bit as well but with strong diminishing returns)
    Yeah well I think the hearthstone model works quite well - they give you 3 big weeklies, one daily per day and everything else gives XP. But I agree there shouldn't be hard timegating like we had with the current Renown system - you should be able to grind it out if you want to!

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  16. #43276
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    There's nothing wrong with actual raids and dungeons in WoW. And sometimes I wonder what people mean by broken classes. I have played resto druid since forever and the spec is fine right now.
    I think the big problem is Blizzard never lets classes settle anymore. We almost routinely get massive "overhauls" every expansion, and then if something feels fucky or wrong, it doesn't get fixed because all they're able to do between expansions is adjust numbers and cooldowns instead of doing any work on classes. If your class or spec sucks on expansion launch, and the problem isn't a simple numbers fix, you're out of luck until the next "class overhaul" next expansion.

    I think the big problem is, there is expectation by the userbase for classes to grow and change every expansion, because for the first few expansions getting new abilities was expected. As the problems with class scope and bloat became apparent, we keep getting these weird half measures to give the illusion classes are still "growing" expansion to expansion, because if they didn't the fanbase would cry that Blizzard was ignoring class design. This is the same userbase that cried over a Level Squish. Some systems DON'T need to continually grow and change, some of them should reach a peak and then be refined over time, but if you launch an expansion without massive changes to every class the community is going to call you lazy while applauding more Order Hall reskins.

  17. #43277
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    Do we have a bingo card template?
    Edit: NVM Found it!

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53704946

  18. #43278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buliwyf the Omen View Post

    You're making it sound like endgame content suffers because there is not enough varied casual content? Currently you can do pet battles, transmog farming, alt leveling, professions and all the available endgame content like PvP, BGs, Arenas, Raids and Dungeons aswell as the Covenants. I dont really see why there needs to be more.
    Imagine listing "alt leveling" as content. Oh wow, what a creative new system you have there. Making another character. Also doing dungeons and farming them for transmog as separate peaces of content.

    It sure looks like there is fuck all to do besides the usual stuff.

    Also I love it that farming transmog is cool varied content, but farming furniture would be pointless side content.

  19. #43279
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    I think the big problem is Blizzard never lets classes settle anymore. We almost routinely get massive "overhauls" every expansion, and then if something feels fucky or wrong, it doesn't get fixed because all they're able to do between expansions is adjust numbers and cooldowns instead of doing any work on classes. If your class or spec sucks on expansion launch, and the problem isn't a simple numbers fix, you're out of luck until the next "class overhaul" next expansion.

    I think the big problem is, there is expectation by the userbase for classes to grow and change every expansion, because for the first few expansions getting new abilities was expected. As the problems with class scope and bloat became apparent, we keep getting these weird half measures to give the illusion classes are still "growing" expansion to expansion, because if they didn't the fanbase would cry that Blizzard was ignoring class design. This is the same userbase that cried over a Level Squish. Some systems DON'T need to continually grow and change, some of them should reach a peak and then be refined over time, but if you launch an expansion without massive changes to every class the community is going to call you lazy while applauding more Order Hall reskins.
    Most of the specs are not like that. There are a few that keeps changing constantly. Mostly they remain mostly the same for very long baring new abilities that tweak gameplay a bit. I will give an example of the spec I play like resto druid. The core gameplay of the spec remains the same since like forever.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2022-04-17 at 11:56 AM.

  20. #43280
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Most of the specs are not like that. There are a few that keeps changing constantly. Mostly they remain mostly the same for very long baring new abilities that tweak gameplay a bit. I will give an example of the spec I play like resto druid. The core gameplay of the spec remains the same since like forever.
    Let me direct you to the history of Demo locks.

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