Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nyel]

Me. It's too bold of a move from blizzard. Redeeming Sylvanas, that's at least in the realm of possibility, but making her the arbiter of every mortal soul? that's just too much fan fiction and special treatment, the backlash would be insane.

I mean it would be basically what she always wanted, but in a twisted way. She gets to choose about death and the dead...

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I don't think 10.0 will be seasonal. A lot more points to it substantially upgrading the older game, including things like a potential world revamp and a neutral PVE system.

Housing is a big fat maybe.

We've been expecting a world revamp since after Legion and there were hints since then as well, so that really means nothing. The thing is, after Shadowlands we need an expansion that's more OOOOOOOOMPH!!!! than "meh". I'm not sure if Blizzard is capable of delivering something like that anymore.

[ExiHext]

I mean it would be basically what she always wanted, but in a twisted way. She gets to choose about death and the dead...

Not sure what Sylvanas you are talking about, but the Sylvanas in WoW always just wanted to control her own fate. Her measures were more than questionable but she never wanted to have control over death, besides her own.

[Dracullus]

We've been expecting a world revamp since after Legion and there were hints since then as well, so that really means nothing. The thing is, after Shadowlands we need an expansion that's more OOOOOOOOMPH!!!! than "meh". I'm not sure if Blizzard is capable of delivering something like that anymore.

Of course it's possible to have something similar, cause there was nothing genius about Legion, it was just typical climax expansion. With BfA they almost had to start over, SL is almost completely new lore. They gathered lot of eggs last few years (sword, Xalatath, Void lords, Alleria whisper, Turalyon as potential Light zealot, Azeroth birth that must happen at some point), all they have to do is blow up the basket.

But I'm sceptic if Legion can be beaten for one reason - to repeat awesome feeling from Legion launch we would have repeat 14 month wasteland from WoD.

[Nyel]

But I'm sceptic if Legion can be beaten for one reason - to repeat awesome feeling from Legion launch we would have repeat 14 month wasteland from WoD.

Well, people are already tired of Shadowlands in its 8th month, even after 9.1 hit. So I see this pretty much as given. Will it be a final drought of 14 months? I don't think so. Will it be a wasteland? At this point, undoubtly.

For me personally, Legion was pretty genius - for a World of Warcraft type of expansion. They introduced so many new features in Legion we are still having to this day. Neither BfA nor Shadowlands were able to do something similar. They all relied on the formula Legion brought into the game, which just became very stale very quickly because there was no innovation attached to it, both expansions were seen as a step backwards from Legion.

So the next expansion will be massive if it aims to copy the stellar success of Legion, but not by copying the Legion formula.

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Not sure what Sylvanas you are talking about, but the Sylvanas in WoW always just wanted to control her own fate. Her measures were more than questionable but she never wanted to have control over death, besides her own.

Sylvanas wants control. Of her own fate? Sure. But of the fate of the others when it comes to death in general as well. And by making her the Arbiter we would come full circle - it's basically the only way keeping her and having her in an engaging role, but out of the actual gameplay loop for the next expansion(s). So she's still there, but in a very passive role.

[therumblings]

the fate of the others when it comes to death in general as well.

This would single handedly destroy the game's lore. Having Sylvanas win and be in control of death sounds absolutely terrible. I couldn't imagine a worse choice for someone to sort out souls. Hell, even the Arbiter is flawed and she is considered a perfect machine by some. Just imagine how horrific of a reality it would be to realize every mortal soul in the universe is judged by... Sylvanas Windrunner.

[ExiHext]

This would single handedly destroy the game's lore. Having Sylvanas win and be in control of death sounds absolutely terrible. I couldn't imagine a worse choice for someone to sort out souls. Hell, even the Arbiter is flawed and she is considered a perfect machine by some. Just imagine how horrific of a reality it would be to realize every mortal soul in the universe is judged by... Sylvanas Windrunner.

It's simply not happening. Not sure how anyone can think Sylvanas would be a good arbiter. They rather change the whole system of how souls, anima, shadowlands and mortal realms work.

[Lady Atia]

Well, people are already tired of Shadowlands in its 8th month, even after 9.1 hit. So I see this pretty much as given. Will it be a final drought of 14 months? I don't think so. Will it be a wasteland? At this point, undoubtly.

For me personally, Legion was pretty genius - for a World of Warcraft type of expansion. They introduced so many new features in Legion we are still having to this day. Neither BfA nor Shadowlands were able to do something similar. They all relied on the formula Legion brought into the game, which just became very stale very quickly because there was no innovation attached to it, both expansions were seen as a step backwards from Legion.

So the next expansion will be massive if it aims to copy the stellar success of Legion, but not by copying the Legion formula.

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Sylvanas wants control. Of her own fate? Sure. But of the fate of the others when it comes to death in general as well. And by making her the Arbiter we would come full circle - it's basically the only way keeping her and having her in an engaging role, but out of the actual gameplay loop for the next expansion(s). So she's still there, but in a very passive role.

Honestly, they should just go back to Artifact Weapons but also make more cosmetic weapon transmogs drop from various bosses. Also make them a permanent feature going forward instead of borrowed power. The weapons lore, skins and all the class stuff was one of my favourite things of the whole game - not sure if they can ever top that for me without going back to that (minus the AP grind).

Also regarding Sylvanas - she actually wants everyone to have control over their fate, that's why she want(ed) to bring down the obvious broken system of the Shadowlands before we came. It's just Sylvie haters who try to ignore that part and cry about "genozide".

[Nyel]

This would single handedly destroy the game's lore. Having Sylvanas win and be in control of death sounds absolutely terrible. I couldn't imagine a worse choice for someone to sort out souls. Hell, even the Arbiter is flawed and she is considered a perfect machine by some. Just imagine how horrific of a reality it would be to realize every mortal soul in the universe is judged by... Sylvanas Windrunner.

We always have to factor in that she has been incomplete until the very moment the Jailer gave her back the lost part of her soul. She doesn't really have control over death (dead people are still dead), but she gets to judge about their fatein the Shadowlands.

Who knows how the "future" Arbiter (if there is any) will work. Maybe the Eternal Ones will completely get rid of the position (which wouldn't make any sense though as their realms would become meaningless) or just reevaluate the role of the Arbiter.

Oh and y'all don't get me wrong, I absolutely hate the writing for Sylvanas since Legion. It was horrible in BfA and in Shadowlands - as of now - it only has become worse. But making here a passive entity would solve several issues with her character. It musn't be the Arbiter in the end, but a position that's akin to something like Illidan's maybe.

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Honestly, they should just go back to Artifact Weapons but also make more cosmetic weapon transmogs drop from various bosses. Also make them a permanent feature going forward instead of borrowed power. The weapons lore, skins and all the class stuff was one of my favourite things of the whole game - not sure if they can ever top that for me without going back to that (minus the AP grind).

Also regarding Sylvanas - she actually wants everyone to have control over their fate, that's why she want(ed) to bring down the obvious broken system of the Shadowlands before we came. It's just Sylvie haters who try to ignore that part and cry about "genozide".

I totally agree. I absolutely hated losing my artifact weapon and going back to the same old boring weapons (and I think 99,9% of the playerbase agree here).

It musn't be weapons. Relics would work as well as we have many concepts with them. Books for Paladins, Idols for Druids or whatever, clearly visible items that recall class fantasy and give us additional ways of customizing or character. Sort of "artifact offhands".

[Raetary]

The Arbiter is too interwoven into the Shadowlands system for Blizzard to replace her, especially as we have barely seen her at all.

I really doubt they would slap her face onto everything, make her this important figure only to just get rid of her within the first patch.

[Ivarr]

Not sure what Sylvanas you are talking about, but the Sylvanas in WoW always just wanted to control her own fate. Her measures were more than questionable but she never wanted to have control over death, besides her own.

See, that's a strong motivation. A character that fully commits to always operate in their self-interest is fine and entertaining to follow. But currently the story tries to spin it in a way where people should be appreciating what she did. That's cheap and narcissistic.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It's simply not happening. Not sure how anyone can think Sylvanas would be a good arbiter. They rather change the whole system of how souls, anima, shadowlands and mortal realms work.

Agreed, the role Arbiter is complete nonsense for her and not at all in her cards. They put a machine/construct there for a reason. I'm not even sure how Sylvanas would be able to process all these souls, she is still very much a mortal based creature, not a highspeed computer with soul reading and sorting extensions. If she gets a permanent high ranking place in the afterlife it's going to be Illidan 2.0, just that she is going to be the Jailer of the Jailer (and maybe Denathrius) as new ruler of the Maw. Even my cynical side does not see them actually rewarding her with the power to judge every single soul in existance, though I could see her being immortalized as the ruler of the maw or some smaller pocket dimension like Helya. It's highly unlikely she will face any punishment, now that Blizzard has practically absolved her of every crime by making her soul whole again, but her reward will be with a slight twist, afterall only the slaughterer of Billions gets to become an actual god in Blizzard franchises. Sylvanas is probably still working on the millions .

I also agree that most likely Blizzard will change how the SL work after this expansion. They pretty much have taken all stakes out of the franchise right now, so they need some fundamanetal changes to remedy this for the future.

[Revamp Man]

So 9.1.5 for the time walking ToT raid or 9.2??

[ExiHext]

See, that's a strong motivation. A character that fully commits to always operate in their self-interest is fine and entertaining to follow. But currently the story tries to spin it in a way where people should be appreciating what she did. That's cheap and narcissistic.

Fully agree. I hate that she gets a redemption arc after all. I have to admit as much as I hate Sylvanas I was one of the few who really liked the raid ending cinematic, but a redemption would be much more bearable without the burning of Teldrassil. That moment she lost any right for a redemption in my eyes, Even if Elune has plans with these souls. Perhaps if all the lives lost in Teldrassil would be revived in the end but even that is debatable.

[elbleuet]

Is it me or weren't we supposed to get 3 cinematics from this patch and only got 2 ?

[Kiivar86]

Is it me or weren't we supposed to get 3 cinematics from this patch and only got 2 ?

One's probably part of the last leg of the campaign, I imagine, wouldn't it?

[Revamp Man]

Is it me or weren't we supposed to get 3 cinematics from this patch and only got 2 ?

1 was tyrande and sylvanas
another was sylvanas cinematic
i think the third was garrosh

[Cosmic Janitor]

i think the third was garrosh

Would that count? I guess they held it back, but these couple of seconds feel like alot of nothing tbh.

[Nagawithlegs]

Pretty sure the third cinematic is Elunes reveal(?) in the Ardenweald/Night Warrior chapter. So in two weeks.

[Revamp Man]

Would that count? I guess they held it back, but these couple of seconds feel like alot of nothing tbh.

it was the third encrypted one

multiple cutscenes for the campaign were never implimented on the ptr and are expected to show up when the chapters unlock

[TheFirstOnes]

We already know the First Ones are above the Cosmic Pantheons.