Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Vakir]

Short of a major overhaul of almost all classes, the presence of a new class doesn't preclude improvement in systems for the others. It's just fitting it into the very same framework. The "less is more" approach for something like SL or even BFA has worked the opposite way by just conveying a lack of effort and making them feel very filler-y.

Class design was far better in the two most recent expansions we got new ones than in the most recent ones we didn't.

Even a major overhaul of literally any aspect - talents, for example - is going to be contentious and many people would argue against it regardless. Some are happy with the basic bitch versions of classes that get light Borrowed Power seasoning. So it's not a definite on improving things any more than if there's a lack of a new class to mess with. Most of the present systems people argue against are still going to exist to avoid bloating things out in the long run and the reward structures people are frustrated with are on a totally separate track of design from a new class.

[Teriz]

What's funny about that to me is that greed would honestly favor adding in a new class rather than not. It's a box feature much like races are, something that will generate excitement & get people interested in trying out the new thing. I'd argue they'll almost certainly see more pre-orders with a new class as part of the feature set than without.

True, but I think the math for that route is doing less work to try to get as much money as possible.

[Hitei]

Better, but I'm going to need some details on the "whelp" thing. For legal reasons.

Dragon-years. It's fine.

[KayRule]

Maybe they'll add a Pit Lord class. Since the classes HAVE to originate from WC3, Pit Lord neutral hero would be really good.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

Wod had the update models, and shadowlands was the ''big'' customization revamp that was supposed to be something they would implement the entire expansion, but alas.

I don't think blizz will get away with trying to sell the same shit like "more race customization", so it will either be a class or class skin

You're right, I forgot completly about WoD adding the model revamps.

Although I dont really see how that can be explained as a major feature to be honest...

"Hooray, your human doesnt look like he's from 2004 anymore, enjoy, thats all you get!"

That just comes naturally with graphical updates over the years in my opinion.

I dont know, if we get nothing there to stay and stick tomorrow, it just screams Maintenance Mode for me. 3 Expansions in a row without any noteworthy features screams red flags.

[Teriz]

Maybe they'll add a Pit Lord class. Since the classes HAVE to originate from WC3, Pit Lord neutral hero would be really good.

Pit Lord's WC3 abilities are completely absorbed by the Warlock and Warrior classes. In fact, Warlocks could have Pit Lords as pets in Legion.

Oh what if they add Mountain King, from WC3. I know Warrior has Avatar, but like Metamorphasis on Warlocks it's not as cool as it was in WC3. Mountain King with proper Avatar would be really good.

Pretty much every MK ability is in the Warrior class. Thunderclap is a pretty core ability in that class as well.

[KayRule]

Oh what if they add Mountain King, from WC3. I know Warrior has Avatar, but like Metamorphasis on Warlocks it's not as cool as it was in WC3. Mountain King with proper Avatar would be really good.

[Das Thora]

Oh what if they add Mountain King, from WC3. I know Warrior has Avatar, but like Metamorphasis on Warlocks it's not as cool as it was in WC3. Mountain King with proper Avatar would be really good.

Mountain Monarch*

[Soulwind]

I could 100% see us not getting a race since
A) We have an EverQuest amount already.
B) Shadowlands added a bunch of customizations.

Meanwhile a class or specs or class skins are all very needed.

See, that's why I think class skins are the better choice. They're easier to make, as they're just visual assets and effects, with zero gameplay impact. No balancing issues. They're a permanent system that can be expanded upon, as new skins could be released in patches and expansions, tied to questlines, achievements or, not to give them any ideas, the cash shop.

The only downsides are that a certain fantasy being added through a class skin means that a proper class won't ever get made for that fantasy. Which in some cases was unlikely to happen anyway. And that they don't provide a reason to play the game on their own, as you don't have to level a new character. But if they're tied to questlines or achievements, the requirement would cover that, and doing something unique once is more appealing than going through the same content once again with a slightly different toolset.

[AngerFork]

True, but I think the math for that route is doing less work to try to get as much money as possible.

For sure, though that less work only would translate into greed if Blizz is trying to "right size" the dev team. If Blizz is doing that, WoW has much bigger issues than missing classes.

Maybe they'll add a Pit Lord class. Since the classes HAVE to originate from WC3, Pit Lord neutral hero would be really good.

I've been saying it for a bit now, but I suspect that any new class we get will specifically not be from WC3 if for no other reason than they keep talking about how defeating the janitor closed that chapter. Whether it actually did, I think they'll want to show that they are doing something new with the game & not rehashing the past.

Not saying this is the right way, just the way I personally see it going.

[KayRule]

Pit Lord's WC3 abilities are completely absorbed by the Warlock and Warrior classes. In fact, Warlocks could have Pit Lords as pets in Legion.



And pretty much every MK ability is in the Warrior class, where it belongs.

Pretty much every Demon Hunter ability from WC3 was already in the game and thankfully they took them and made them their own class so they could be implemented. They should do the same with Mountain King. The classes in WoW HAVE to come form WC3, and have to have iconic characters, which Mountain King definently has. Looking at developments in BfA and Shadowlands it really does seem like a no-brainer that Mountain King is the next class. They can even use abilities from Muradin in HotS to really flesh him out, since HotS is canon now.

[Syegfryed]

You're right, I forgot completly about WoD adding the model revamps.

Although I dont really see how that can be explained as a major feature to be honest...

"Hooray, your human doesnt look like he's from 2004 anymore, enjoy, thats all you get!"

That just comes naturally with graphical updates over the years in my opinion.

I dont know, if we get nothing there to stay and stick tomorrow, it just screams Maintenance Mode for me. 3 Expansions in a row without any noteworthy features screams red flags.

It can't, but its the blizzard rule of more profit for less work, instead of adding two new races of draenor(ogres and aarakocra or even other) and the update models, they sold the update models as the only feature, and its supposed to be on pair.

Same way allied races are less work for more profit, sell races with another skin color as an entire new race, so people have to pay race change

One of the reasons i think class skin is more likely, easier to change color of spells and some features than completely make new ones.

[Teriz]

Pretty much every Demon Hunter ability from WC3 was already in the game and thankfully they took them and made them their own class so they could be implemented. They should do the same with Mountain King. The classes in WoW HAVE to come form WC3, and have to have iconic characters, which Mountain King definently has. Looking at developments in BfA and Shadowlands it really does seem like a no-brainer that Mountain King is the next class. They can even use abilities from Muradin in HotS to really flesh him out, since HotS is canon now.

That worked for Demon Hunters because no class could really fully emulate the DH concept. Rogues couldn't use demonic magic, and Warlocks were not agily fighters.

A Dwarf Warrior can emulate a Mountain King almost perfectly. There's no need to create an entirely new class when Warrior fulfills the MK fantasy completely.

[KayRule]

I would rather have 10 more Allied Races than 1 new brand new race, tbqh

[NikolaiShade]

See, that's why I think class skins are the better choice. They're easier to make, as they're just visual assets and effects, with zero gameplay impact. No balancing issues. They're a permanent system that can be expanded upon, as new skins could be released in patches and expansions, tied to questlines, achievements or, not to give them any ideas, the cash shop.

The only downsides are that a certain fantasy being added through a class skin means that a proper class won't ever get made for that fantasy. Which in some cases was unlikely to happen anyway. And that they don't provide a reason to play the game on their own, as you don't have to level a new character. But if they're tied to questlines or achievements, the requirement would cover that, and doing something unique once is more appealing than going through the same content once again with a slightly different toolset.

To just elaborate on this, while the art department takes care of skins the gameplay department (I doubt there is such a division) can tweak classes. And just to add to the discussion class skins could be used to introduce race/class combos otherwise problematic, NElf paladins could be guardians of Elune and use arcane magic, Forsaken paladins could use void and so on

[Revamp Man]

It is last post from me about Legion stuff and things between Legion and Dragonflight, but:

Legion was just a description of what we saw "inside". Maybe then some translation errors broke in and it turned out a little weird - but the description was based on the snippets of the trailer and cutscenes that were shown. I don't want to come back to it anymore, but wasn't it enough that I wrote about it (and not only me) before gamescom? And how about Diablo 4? Okay we can say "anyone can predict that".

As I described in my guessing post that we didn't have much information after the legion. Somewhere in the post there was a 4chan interview with the game developer - many of his answers were right and some were not. It's not that he lied - just the details and priorities have changed.

Developers don't just work on one add-on that comes next, they have X projects that are linked and prioritized during the work.

For example, I can say that in one of today's (previous posts) there was also a hint about the mobile game project The name of the mobile game project is so strange that I am almost sure that it can be a trick for informants to track them down ... On the other hand, it is accessed by hundreds of industry people and "inside" employees. This is why I rather omit it in my posts and focus only on WORLD of warcraft, not WARCRAFT: XXXXXXXX XXXXXX (the number X corresponds to the name of the project).

Sorry for misstranslation

Of course, believe or not - it can be as someone said "next level of trolling" which we will know tomorrow if it is, or not.

Idk what you saw in the legion stuff to make you think of a paragon leveling system and an asteroid field zone

[KayRule]

That worked for Demon Hunters because no class could really fully emulate the DH class. Rogues couldn't use demonic magic, and Warlocks were not agily fighters.

A Dwarf Warrior can emulate a Mountain King almost perfectly. There's no need to create an entirely new class when Warrior fulfill the MK fantasy completely.

The current implementation of Avatar does NOT fully emulate it's ability and design and fantasy in WC3. If they did what they did to DH they could actually create real Avatar forms. They could also use the Diamond Magni lores and healing of Azeroth wounds to give an Azerite themed healing spec with a Diamond form.

[Hitei]

It can't, but its the blizzard rule of more profit for less work, instead of adding two new races of draenor(ogres and aarakocra or even other) and the update models, they sold the update models as the only feature, and its supposed to be on pair.

Same way allied races are less work for more profit, sell races with another skin color as an entire new race, so people have to pay race change

One of the reasons i think class skin is more likely, easier to change color of spells and some features than completely make new ones.

Imagine unironically believing that (even ignoring Draenei and Blood Elves) remodeling 8 base races and adding an entirely new rigging and animation set for facial expressions is somehow "less work" than two new races.

[Soulwind]

To just elaborate on this, while the art department takes care of skins the gameplay department (I doubt there is such a division) can tweak classes. And just to add to the discussion class skins could be used to introduce race/class combos otherwise problematic, NElf paladins could be guardians of Elune and use arcane magic, Forsaken paladins could use void and so on

And they could even add certain fantasies to multiple classes. Like the Dragonsworn concept. Say it doesn't get a class of its own, but all casters get a Dragon-themed class skin, each would still have their own spells, but some animations and effects could easily be reused, and that way you don't tie the concept to one class only.

I'd say it's a win-win. Relatively low effort (when compared to a whole new class or fourth specs) for a sizeable amount of content.

[Teriz]

The current implementation of Avatar does NOT fully emulate it's ability and design and fantasy in WC3.

For balance reasons. However, if Blizzard wants to make Avatar more like its WC3 incarnation, why would they create an entirely new class instead of simply giving the Warrior version increased armor and HP?