1. #47001
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So would you still take a class that does 10k less DPS then another class? What if that is the difference between clearing the raid or not? Sure that might be extreme, or it might not be. Because if you pick all the wrong things while someone else picks all the right things then DPS will vary. From a Blizzard standpoint how do you design a raid to be balanced for both groups to clear?

    An optimized group will breeze through the content. One that is not optimized might have a challenge or even not be able to clear the content. Building the community you want to be a part of only goes so far when the mechanics of the game are not balanced or tuned correctly.
    The chances of things being THAT unbalanced are going to be rather slim. That's akin to "Everyone in the raid decided to just roll and bring a healer" types of extremes and not a realistic example.

  2. #47002
    Here is my contribution to reach 2500!

    I don't like the images of the dragon people, but a new system that mixes talents and "artifact" trees can work.

  3. #47003
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    I think at one point in time it WAS a relic of the past.

    But now MMO trends are moving back towards "Lets throw in some RPG elements and give you some freedomin the class again."

    And while cookie cutter specs of classic were a failed attempt at that, it doesn't mean the idea couldn't be revisited .
    It was never a relic I feel like. It was always there, this idea of "what if we had an RPG that was an MMO," Blizz just decided there was more money to chase emulating MOBAs and Looter Shooters. Heck Western RPGs are increasingly reliant on talent freaking trees to design your player character.

    Just now suddenly the winds are blowing at the MMO's back rather than its front and Blizz is like "hey maybe these 'build your own hero' games aren't so bad."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    The chances of things being THAT unbalanced are going to be rather slim. That's akin to "Everyone in the raid decided to just roll and bring a healer" types of extremes and not a realistic example.
    And yet I look at the Jailer rankings and see two classes so blatantly out-performing everyone and like 1/4 of them that are blatantly under-performing.
    Dragonflight: Better, but at this point WoW needs a major reboot not an incremental upgrade.

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  4. #47004
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    The chances of things being THAT unbalanced are going to be rather slim. That's akin to "Everyone in the raid decided to just roll and bring a healer" types of extremes and not a realistic example.
    But you will have to face choices like that the more options there are. Because some of those options might not be optimal or very good choices. There have been times in the past where simply changing specs would boost DPS by a few thousand. It might seem small but you add that into the rest of the group and boss mechanics and it could mean the difference between a wipe and a kill.

    As a group leader you would have to build your group with that in mind. Or the talents themselves will be mostly an illusion of choice and not very meaningful in order to give most paths viability. Blizzard still struggles to balance things now would doubling (or more) the amount of work be better?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  5. #47005
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    DPS/DPS/Healer? I wonder if we're getting red + black + bronze for specs? Doesn't that fit with Teriz's ideas from hots?
    Sort of? Teriz's idea had a Black tank, so not quite, but hopefully there's a little of everything in there. I'd bet on a Bronze DPS spec so there's that at least. Unless we get like, a Black spec with Dragoon inspiration, that would be pretty *close* to Teriz's idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    What classes do we think Dracthyr will get?
    I dunno their lore yet, but they're supposedly native to the Dragon Isles; I want to say anything with vague draconic connections?

    Warrior, Mage, Rogue, Druid, Shaman, Evoker...uhh....Paladin? Probably not Demon Hunter, I assume. Maybe Monk?

  6. #47006
    The race is so ugly and blend that in the end, I miss we didnt got drakonid lol.

    Like, I wasn’t hoping for anything and I’m still disappointed

  7. #47007
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    It was never a relic I feel like. It was always there, this idea of "what if we had an RPG that was an MMO," Blizz just decided there was more money to chase emulating MOBAs and Looter Shooters. Heck Western RPGs are increasingly reliant on talent freaking trees to design your player character.

    Just now suddenly the winds are blowing at the MMO's back rather than its front and Blizz is like "hey maybe these 'build your own hero' games aren't so bad."

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    And yet I look at the Jailer rankings and see two classes so blatantly out-performing everyone and like 1/4 of them that are blatantly under-performing.
    And outside of mythic raiding, which most people do not want to do, nor do they actively do.. It doesn't really matter. Most people aren't going to play well enough to reach that level of DPS disparity, regardless of class.

  8. #47008
    This really felt like the longest buildup for an xpac announcement ever. And I mean, it technically was, let’s hope dragonflight will do a game we all love so dearly justice and be a success. Fingers crossed..

  9. #47009
    Quote Originally Posted by Zankai27 View Post
    Sort of? Teriz's idea had a Black tank
    I'm guessing there would be no tank because it's a caster class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zankai27 View Post
    Warrior, Mage, Rogue, Druid, Shaman, Evoker...uhh....Paladin? Probably not Demon Hunter, I assume. Maybe Monk?
    Sounds about right, the names Dracthyr Evoker definitely will take some getting used to though lol

  10. #47010
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    I'm guessing there would be no tank because it's a caster class.


    Sounds about right, the names Dracthyr Evoker definitely will take some getting used to though lol
    I could see it having some kind of melee spec, or maybe they go wild and it has a spell DPS and ranged physical DPS? That's pretty unique. Blue-inspired Arcane Archer?

    I think the Dracthyr'll take some getting used to in general since they're such a new concept. I wonder if they didn't go with Drakonids because we've never seen them transform into other races and are so damn bulky, so they made something new?

    Honestly I'm super pumped; if Evoker has a healing spec anywhere near as fun as HotS Alexstrasza, I'm all in.

  11. #47011
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    He said Evokers were a thing before he even mentioned the talent stuff though, all of these leaks originated from him. Evokers are most likely gonna happen, I just suspect he poorly conveyed the exact fantasy of the class. I'm really hoping it's basically a renamed Dragonsworn and not an arcane mage.
    He confirmed in a post that what evokers take from arcane mages is evocation, equating it to warlocks losing metamorphosis. He didn't say they took their spells.

    It seems like mages will lose the mana management aspect of arcane and that mana management will be built into the three specs of evokers, and all 3 specs (supposedly dps/dps/heals) will use evocation.

    I'm thinking the class will have blue dragon direct damage, green dragon dots, and red dragon heals.

  12. #47012
    Quote Originally Posted by Zankai27 View Post
    I think the Dracthyr'll take some getting used to in general since they're such a new concept. I wonder if they didn't go with Drakonids because we've never seen them transform into other races and are so damn bulky, so they made something new?
    Drakonids don't have wings, some have tails, they also are a little bit too bulky, but still possible. I'm guessing they just went for a brand new dragon race to be some sort of middle ground between dragon and humanoid. I'm not too upset with it but something about the head is weird to me.

  13. #47013
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    And outside of mythic raiding, which most people do not want to do, nor do they actively do.. It doesn't really matter. Most people aren't going to play well enough to reach that level of DPS disparity, regardless of class.
    Skill only causes the disparity to grow though. The less skilled you are the more you rely on other things to boost your success. Talent choices, raw numbers, gear upgrades, raid nerfs, etc are all things that help over come the skill hurdle. Having talent options that negatively impact your performance only causes the lack of skill to be more apparent.

    This is also the case when specs have more complicated rotations. The skilled players can easily pull it off but the not as skilled players can't and feel like their class is broken. We've had examples of this in the past that Blizzard has used for why they changed rotations. If I recall correctly it was one of the driving factors for Warlocks to have meta weaving changed but it has been so long I can't recall anything specific.
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  14. #47014
    I feel like this is a missed opportunity to have an epic 5 spec dragonflight class, like Bronze Healer, turning back time, Red Healer, casting fire healing spells, Blue spellblade type spec, and a Black tank and maybe Green for nature damage since Balance Druid is more astral.

  15. #47015
    MODS CAN'T STOP ME.


    The new race is ugly as fuck and looks out of place, like the style literally does not match the other races, it's that horrendous, I hope it's fake.


    As for the class, I hope it's a melee / ranged hybrid and not just a copy pasta mage. Having something between a mage and a druid with dragon forms would be the perfect middle ground, I want to tank as a black dragon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    I feel like this is a missed opportunity to have an epic 5 spec dragonflight class, like Bronze Healer, turning back time, Red Healer, casting fire healing spells, Blue spellblade type spec, and a Black tank and maybe Green for nature damage since Balance Druid is more astral.
    For sure, they skipped out on a class in Shadowlands so they could at least give us one HUGE class this time that can fit many different playstyles

  16. #47016
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    I feel like this is a missed opportunity to have an epic 5 spec dragonflight class, like Bronze Healer, turning back time, Red Healer, casting fire healing spells, Blue spellblade type spec, and a Black tank and maybe Green for nature damage since Balance Druid is more astral.
    I mean at this point I'd be satisfied if it at least had 3 specs.

    But I'm expecting if we do get a new class tomorrow it'll be just 2. DPS and Healer.
    Dragonflight: Better, but at this point WoW needs a major reboot not an incremental upgrade.

    FFXIV - Maduin (Dynamis DC) | Classic - Grobbulus (Alliance)

  17. #47017
    I'd be satisfied with even a one spec class if it means we can play as dragons and use different flights abilities. I am hoping the Evokers are just that.

  18. #47018
    Have the dracthyr leaks been confirmed? You guys produced more than 100 pages since I went to bed, didn't catch up.

  19. #47019
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    I mean at this point I'd be satisfied if it at least had 3 specs.

    But I'm expecting if we do get a new class tomorrow it'll be just 2. DPS and Healer.
    I mean if we just get another lazy 2 spec class again then I'm just not gonna play the game, simple as that.

    FF14 already gives me everything I need from an MMO, if WoW doesn't offer up anything compelling then I am not going to return, and I know it's the same for tens and even hundreds of thousands of other players as well.

  20. #47020
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExiHext View Post
    Have the dracthyr leaks been confirmed? You guys produced more than 100 pages since I went to bed, didn't catch up.
    So it's kinda weird.

    Did you see that leak of the Druid Talents + Restoration Talents?

    That's been posted in different ways 3 times now, plus a 4th that seems to mention it in text.

    So.... I guess the race is looking pretty suspiciously right?

    But that doesn't confirm any of the Dracthyr or Evoker stuff, merely the person who leaked that also backed up the Druid Talents as legit.
    Dragonflight: Better, but at this point WoW needs a major reboot not an incremental upgrade.

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