Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Alanar]

Seeing how we didn't even get a preorder informations, it seems like the 1 or 2 allied races thingy might be true, but i doubt it.

However if they only added a mount or armor transmog i think we would have preoder info right after the presentation.

People speculate about darkfallens, but its another elven race lmao.

Looking at the general negativity about the new class/race... they might do it now.

I think many were like... shit, guys seen switch and mmo champion?

I mean first time a new class gets so much hate lol.

[Dracullus]

https://twitter.com/EENlX/status/151...ofgN3nv0Urunfw

They did it again? copying FF? ayy lmao

FF guys should copy some stuff from WoW too. For example having playable game on launch day. Or at least launch week, small steps.

[Super Dickmann]

After all the hype over the XIV story I was very let down when I found myself enjoying the story less than I do the Kingdom Hearts series lol.

I avoid talking FF because the style of the initial levels, both in gameplay and story bored me to tears and I don't really have an interest in the franchise or JRPGs to lean on. So for the sake of not bashing what I couldn't force myself through I'm willing to take them at their word that the story, taken as a whole, is like if Tolstoy were from glorious Nippon and leave it at that. But 'flyer catches falling man at last moment' is about as franchise-specific as a fucking sunrise, much like that generic Anduin inspirational scene they were assmad about before.

- - - Updated - - -

Renown is in. It's just the new reputation system which allows them to steadily give rewards for working on reputation (and even advance storylines at specific points in a manner that is far more transparent; the previous system used in MoP and Legion with Suramar worked great but was very much opaque).

The peak of reputation based progression has always been 5.1 and it's all been downhill since. SL's renown is close but suffers from what the devs actually acknowledged which is that you could only advance one track. Applying it to all hopefully means more gradual rep that's specific to the actual factions instead of interchangable WQs for all or worse, actually varied and essential things like in SL which are all completely wasted effort because WQs are made to be done a quintillion times and be mindless by design.

[Nymrohd]

I avoid talking FF because the style of the initial levels, both in gameplay and story bored me to tears and I don't really have an interest in the franchise or JRPGs to lean on. So for the sake of not bashing what I couldn't force myself through I'm willing to take them at their word that the story, taken as a whole, is like if Tolstoy were from glorious Nippon and leave it at that. But 'flyer catches falling man at last moment' is about as franchise-specific as a fucking sunrise, much like that generic Anduin inspirational scene they were assmad about before.

It still is annoying though because it is dismissive of every other MMORPG. WoW has on multiple occasions had great storytelling. As recent as BfA, all the zone stories plus their overarching scenarios (Zandalar Forever and Siege of Boralus with Jaina) were excellent (the sidequests were not as consistent, the main story . .. ). ESO consistently has great storytelling in every single release and an absolute massive world with top tier world building. SWTOR was universally praised for its story. Sure none of them are Planescape Torment or even DA:O and Divinity but that's the limitation of the medium.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Looking at the general negativity about the new class/race... they might do it now.

I think many were like... shit, guys seen switch and mmo champion?

I mean first time a new class gets so much hate lol.

It's because class is tied to the race that doesn't even have 1 additional body type so more people can be happy.

Like i don't like pandas, but i like monks so i have like 3 other races that are monks, here you won't be able to, either stick to human or elf model plus the skinny dragon-lizard with really long giraffe neck.

Give options to make cute dragon and more bulky, ferocious looking one.

[Wangming]

So.... they didn't do that, as a note.

Well they didn't do that yet. Scaleface and his buddies leaked the entire thing in an entertaining format so the least I can do is be a bit leanient.

[Nymrohd]

The peak of reputation based progression has always been 5.1 and it's all been downhill since. SL's renown is close but suffers from what the devs actually acknowledged which is that you could only advance one track. Applying it to all hopefully means more gradual rep that's specific to the actual factions instead of interchangable WQs for all or worse, actually varied and essential things like in SL which are all completely wasted effort because WQs are made to be done a quintillion times and be mindless by design.

For me the main issue with renown is how it was gained. Two weekly quests, both of which were crap. Should have been zone wide objectives like the ones we got in 9.1 and 9.2 (Patterns within Patterns) that awarded Renown. They could have kept progression partially locked by making you only able to turn in the souls quest once per week to a single Covenant (though early on anima completely limited how much you could advance anyway).

I think all implementations of story unlocks at different levels of reputation were good; you may be a bit biased because of the faction nature of that particular rep. The Mogu invasion of the Golden Vale, slowly awakening the Klaxxi to end up in that disastrous assault of the palace, getting to know more of the farmers of Halfhill and improving your farm not to mention the Suramar campaign; all were excellent imo. What really helped was that several of these reps allowed a bit of a grind. It always motivated me to farm around for treasures and gifts or whatever other rep token was there when I was close to a breakpoint so I could see the next part of the story. This is my issue with Renown; we are most likely going to be completely on a timegated track.

[Super Dickmann]

It still is annoying though because it is dismissive of every other MMORPG. WoW has on multiple occasions had great storytelling. As recent as BfA, all the zone stories plus their overarching scenarios (Zandalar Forever and Siege of Boralus with Jaina) were excellent (the sidequests were not as consistent, the main story . .. ). ESO consistently has great storytelling in every single release and an absolute massive world with top tier world building. SWTOR was universally praised for its story. Sure none of them are Planescape Torment or even DA:O and Divinity but that's the limitation of the medium.

As said, I want to avoid addressing any of it I haven't seen because it's just not my cup of tea. Watching some videos online I think one of my main problem with that kind of storytelling is kind of the inverse of WoW. WoW tells a dubious story with as few words as possible, whereas FF tells a story that again, I'm going to take at its word has all the depth advertised in as many words as possible, gameplay be damned.

ESO is generally not my cup of tea, but SWTOR was great despite an incredibly generic premise on the story front with the Imp. Agent story still being my favorite MMO story with a vibe I've not found anywhere else. It ranks past some singleplayer RPGs where that's concerned.

@Nymrohd

It's partly bias, I won't discount it, but I also think that pound for pound 5.1 had the most story quests at reputation breakpoints. Not just between say, honored and revered but at increments through. That or they're just the most memorable. I like the Klaxxi as well, though I'll admit I only got around to Golden Lotus after giving up on it fairly late in. Suramar is one I appreciate and can't criticize, but also was storywise not my cup of tea, I think it's only fault is that it's solely story, with no gameplay reward peppered in at the increments.

[Nymrohd]

It's because class is tied to the race that doesn't even have 1 additional body type so more people can be happy.

Like i don't like pandas, but i like monks so i have like 3 other races that are monks, here you won't be able to, either stick to human or elf model plus the skinny dragon-lizard with really long giraffe neck.

Give options to make cute dragon and more bulky, ferocious looking one.

Same could be said for DH to be honest.

- - - Updated - - -

As said, I want to avoid addressing any of it I haven't seen because it's just not my cup of tea. Watching some videos online I think one of my main problem with that kind of storytelling is kind of the inverse of WoW. WoW tells a dubious story with as few words as possible, whereas FF tells a story that again, I'm going to take at its word has all the depth advertised in as many words as possible, gameplay be damned.

ESO is generally not my cup of tea, but SWTOR was great despite an incredibly generic premise on the story front with the Imp. Agent story still being my favorite MMO story with a vibe I've not found anywhere else. It ranks past some singleplayer RPGs where taht's concerned.

I just want games to be games. If I wanted a visual novel, I'd read one. Reminds me of the meme about certain games having more time spent in QuickTime events than actual gameplay.

[Alanar]

It's because class is tied to the race that doesn't even have 1 additional body type so more people can be happy.

Like i don't like pandas, but i like monks so i have like 3 other races that are monks, here you won't be able to, either stick to human or elf model plus the skinny dragon-lizard with really long giraffe neck.

Give options to make cute dragon and more bulky, ferocious looking one.

I agree, I dont like the models myself, but there is no way of rolling a differnt race. You are literal stuck with one class one race. Worst idea ever.

I just dont want to play like a dragon.. never wanted that. These slim lizards arent changing that.. they are only like this because a 40ft tall playable dragon doesnt make sense.

They could have gone for couple new races instead and I would have been happier. Evoker is just not it..

[Lorca]

To add to this:


They are in.

Like, why don't they ad that model for the Dracthyr as a "male" model, put wings on it, and then we would have two different options to choose.

[Nymrohd]

It's partly bias, I won't discount it, but I also think that pound for pound 5.1 had the most story quests at reputation breakpoints. Not just between say, honored and revered but at increments through. That or they're just the most memorable. I like the Klaxxi as well, though I'll admit I only got around to Golden Lotus after giving up on it fairly late in. Suramar is one I appreciate and can't criticize, but also was storywise not my cup of tea, I think it's only fault is that it's solely story, with no gameplay reward peppered in at the increments.

Suramar had massive Artifact Power tokens at each of the increments.

[Wangming]

Why elemental protodrakes, who were supposed to be around before the actual protodrakes, would even worship galakrond, since he was a dragon canibal eating everything and turning then into undead?

Guess is Dansuer doing his magic

It's Danuser, so what did you expect?

I mean the whole idea of: "Whoops the sundering fucked up the land. We will move from the Isles. Call us back when the problem fixed itself" is ridiculously dumb. And people wonder why FFXIV is praised for its story. To put use a food analogy, a decent burger might not be anything special, but I will take it over burned toast.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I agree, I dont like the models myself, but there is no way of rolling a differnt race. You are literal stuck with one class one race. Worst idea ever.

I just dont want to play like a dragon.. never wanted that. These slim lizards arent changing that.. they are only like this because a 40ft tall playable dragon doesnt make sense.

They could have gone for couple new races instead and I would have been happier. Evoker is just not it..

Especially seeing that this new class has some cool mechanics with QTE and stuff like that, i probably won't be able to play it, because i truly hate how the dragon form looks currently and that only female humans or blood elves are available.

[Gigantique]

Really digging these concepts, hopefully they translate well into models.

I like all of them sans the hunter one, it honestly looks like they took the Sepulcher set and just splashed some blue dragon on it. Same helmet, same shoulder design (just with frozen magic instead of glowy magic) etc.

[Super Dickmann]

Suramar had massive Artifact Power tokens at each of the increments.

True, but those aren't exactly memorable.

[Nymrohd]

Like, why don't they ad that model for the Dracthyr as a "male" model, put wings on it, and then we would have two different options to choose.

Why not just make a drake! Wrathion's drake model was not large, we could easily have had a drake that is as tall as a tauren or zandalari troll and not have any issue with walking through doors (if anything given it would not be mounted it'd be even easier). Drake would also have had breath, talons, wing buffets, tail sweeps. It's just such a missed opportunity. Sure other games don't let you play dragons but that's because dragons in other games are too damn powerful. A young drake in WoW is not at all more powerful than a level 50-60 character of a different class.

[Lorca]

I saw in the interviews that they said at least two times, two different people, that the Evoker will have the power of the 5 dragonflights, but then they only talk specifically about the blue, red, green and bronze (first two for the dps spec and the second two for the healing spec). Did they talk about the black flight power anywhere? Or is there any chance those would be unlocked later as a third spec? I don't play tanks at all, but feel bad for them getting put aside...

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I genuinely have to wonder how many people shilling for FF visuals and story have simply not watched much media and so consider the absolute most basic tropes to be groundbreakingly original material.

As for the expansion reveal itself, I violently don't care about Dragons and this expansion is all dragons all the time, mixed with the final stage of faction homogenization to round it off now that the Horde and Alliance expeditions are interchangable. The new race is poison for the eyes, though the class gimmick could be interesting. Past that, the talent revamp could be interesting and it's good that there's no hyped up and disposable feature like Renown or dragon covenants. I don't hate it, but I don't care about it either.

Agreed in many ways, save for one or two—for one, I think there was a very interesting story that could've been told with the Dragons if they were simply more civilized in nature, more vicious, and more cultural. I think that the idea of some generic, heretofore unknown Proto-Dragons dwelling in obscurity in the Dragon Isles who worship Galakrond was an odd idea—were it up to me, a possibly more interesting idea could've been an essentially apocalyptic Draconic cult propped up around Galakrond by survivors of the Twilight Flight and Chromatus, providing us with a good set of villains to set the story up around. Galakrond would probably be more of a "Heavy"-type villain who serves as the Darth Vader of the expansion whereas Chromatus is suggested to be the actual mastermind potentially controlling Galakrond's actions. Both could work well with some adequate personality—the animalistic yet indisputably sapient behavior of the Dragons in Dawn of the Aspects would be a very interesting personality to work with for a villain, as it would show something not strictly evil, yet unequivocally a threat. Conversely, Chromatus' personality is ill-defined, but I figure that a bit of work could help him out. Although everybody currently holds Denathrius as the standard for a villain that works, I figure that a good voice actor and writer for Chromatus could make him be a pretty interesting antagonist—a thoroughly-depraved, self-destructive supremacist sounds a little banal as a villain from the perspective of a three-dimensional approach, but with enough work it could be very interesting as a sort of equivalent to real-life villains like Heinrich Himmler.

I think the new race could've worked better if it were more explicitly actual Dragons. Of course, this would be somewhat impractical due to the scale of Drakes (which I assume would be the playable form of any kind of non-humanoid Dragon), but even then there were better ways to execute the Dracthyr. It feels like a copout that we only got two specializations instead of a potential three (and they didn't even pair them adequately!—why are the Bronze and Blues not paired, and the Greens and Reds not paired? Both are better suited for one another as arcane-based and healing-based respectively!). Even insofar as Dragons go, the idea of Chromatic-esque experimental humanoid Dragons could've worked much better as a Twilight's Hammer experiment instead of associating them with pre-corruption Neltharion. This seems far more in-character for something Nefarian would do, given he's always been the Mad Scientist archetype of Dragonkind. I could picture an army of mutated Chromatic Drakonids being far more interesting as player characters than generally-sanitized draconic humanoids who don't have much in the way of interesting lore hooks or design going for them. It seems superfluous that they even exist when we already have experimental humanoid Dragons that can use various powers from across the Dragonflights in the form of some of Nefarian's evil experiments.

You're on the mark with the talent thing, though I'm honestly suspicious it's only a superficial facade of development—it seems like some of it overlaps with preexisting systems, but it does at least have something unique going for it. No borrowed power is refreshing.

[Alanar]

Like, why don't they ad that model for the Dracthyr as a "male" model, put wings on it, and then we would have two different options to choose.

These models look wat cooler then drakthyr tho lol.