Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Chickat]

I think most people already know by now that the Dracthyr dragon model is based on the Incubus skeleton, but I still see some people debating on whether it could be Female Worgen or Female Meta DH instead. However, I made several side-by-side comparisons with all of the aforementioned options and Incubus is the one that ended up matching them the best.

There are small differences, so it's not a 1:1 copy-paste, but the position of the limbs is enough to give it away.

People should be more pissed off by this than they are because this is the first time Blizzard has introduced a brand new race (not an Allied Race) that uses a rig based on something that already exists in the game. Goblins, Worgen, Blood Elves, Draenei, and Pandaren all had completely unique skeletons at the time of their release.

I wonder how people will feel about their brand new race sharing a skeleton with another class's pet? It feels a little insulting, lol.

Umm I feel like its a non issue and people just want to whine tbh. They have unique casting, dancing, emotes etc that every race has. They just run the same and idle the same. Its a non issue.

[huth]

I almost wonder whether they might be planning to make DF a shorter expansion again, especially if it releases late Q1, early Q2 2023.

Do a shorter expansion similar in length to SL, then announce 11.0 at Blizzcon 2023 and be back on track for a Q3 release 2024.

The other option would obviously be to make Q1/Q2 the new norm for WoW expansion releases, but somehow this feels unlikely to me.

WoW never had a fixed expansion release window in the first place. They've been all over the place.

[wowrefugee]

It's weird to me how much information has had to be coaxed out of the team via interviews, but I am happy nonetheless. The Dracthyr was really the only worrisome part of the expansion for me, so I'm fully on the hype train now.

[Bsirk]

So is the Dragonflight system the reps? What about the explorers league and centaurs/tuskar?

Im pretty sure the Dragonflights will be like covenants but only cosmetic and we will have 3-4 normal old school reps too.

Didn't Ion say in the Hazelnutty interview that they want the rep for Centaurs, Explorer's League, Reliquary and others to be like Covenants? Where you see what you will unlock once you reach that level with them.

[Kiria]

I sound like a broken record at this point but for me, it's the base races you can be in your visage.

I don't even care if I don't get my personal wishes of having Pandaren for them, I just do not want to be an overused blood elf or a female human.

I don't mind either way as I only play elves or humans, but more customisations are always welcome but I doubt it will happen due to them being "old" experiments.

[huth]

Umm I feel like its a non issue and people just want to whine tbh. They have unique casting, dancing, emotes etc that every race has. They just run the same and idle the same. Its a non issue.

Honestly, my guess is they adapted the Dracthyr rig for the Incubus rather than the other way around.

[Chickat]

I hear people saying "they update a couple models every expac preparing for the revamp, we now no longer have many models that need an update" but by the time they finish updating the latest model, there is already a difference in quality between the first and last models that got updated. I gave up on hoping that the updates are for a revamp and accepted that the updates are just because they wanted to use those races/foes/styles that haven't appeared in a while

They started in MoP tbh. Goats were some of the first updated and still hold up today IMO. I don't think there is nearly a big enough quality difference to matter.

[Khaza-R]

Umm I feel like its a non issue and people just want to whine tbh. They have unique casting, dancing, emotes etc that every race has. They just run the same and idle the same. Its a non issue.

Also like how often do people see incubi running around (outside of RP servers!)? I've seen one since 9.2 and it was on my own warlock alt before I changed the spell. I probably would of never known if it wasn't for this thread.

[Chickat]

I'm pretty sure that the Incubus and the Dracthyr were developed at the same time. Also there's nothing wrong with a race sharing the same skeleton as a pet as long as it has the necessary animations, which they clearly do.

Also I gotta say, that white Dracthyr form looks great.

Yeah, they have a similar idle and running animation. Everything else is obviously going to be new.

[ercarp]

Umm I feel like its a non issue and people just want to whine tbh. They have unique casting, dancing, emotes etc that every race has. They just run the same and idle the same. Its a non issue.

I guess it's going to be subjective at the end of the day. Personally I think it does make the race seem a bit cheaper since they haven't done this in the past. Usually brand new races come with brand new skeletons.

That said, this is not that big of an issue for me as long as they address all the other problems with the race. I mean, it's not like we can run around as incubi as the player character so the experience of using those animations ourselves is still unique.

[Chickat]

I think it sounds like a lot.

Revamped talents at this scope are going to need a ton of balancing work to begin with, a lot more than the extra talent rows & soulbinds needed for Shadowlands. Every spec will need this, all 38 of them. Given how intricate some of those talent rows looked, it's possible some of these specs are getting overhauled pending how many abilities are in the trees instead of baseline with the class.

Dragon Riding shouldn't be super intense, we've already seen most of the pieces elsewhere. But there are complications. The customizations sound a lot like the Mechagon mounts with custom colors & the unlocking abilities sound similar to Pocopoc, but there will still need to be testing of each new talent added...both in how it works & given that this is early flying, how easy this makes it to break the game. We still have the falling DC bug which could be a nightmare with the dive bombing aspect of this new system, so one has to think that will need a glance.

Dracthyr Evokers will need a bunch of work. Balancing, adjusting abilities, determining racials & class abilities (as much as there's really any reason to separate them), bugs with the starting zone, etc. Not to mention the whole charging spell aspect of the class.

UI revamp is going to need a lot of testing. Do the bars lock up? Is it possible to make UI pieces unrecoverable? How well is that spec saving going, and is there a way to copy those settings to alts? Profession revamp is going to need a ton as well, given how much this differs from the norm.

It's maybe not as much as Legion, but there's still a bunch here IMO.

Yeah Id compare it to Shadowlands systems wise like I said. Not as much as Legion or BFA tho.

[Local Ardenweald Faerie]

I guess it's going to be subjective at the end of the day. Personally I think it does make the race seem a bit cheaper since they haven't done this in the past. Usually brand new races come with brand new skeletons.

That said, this is not that big of an issue for me as long as they address all the other problems with the race. I mean, it's not like we can run around as incubi ourselves so the experience of using those animations ourselves is still unique.

I know this is a different situation, but when Garrosh got his new model in 5.3, people correctly speculated that it was a precursor for something more; indeed, he became the base for the new Orc models in Warlords.

They've done this before, using a new skeleton as an experiment for a new race and stuff. It's just a bit weird that they used a pet instead of a cool NPC this time.

[ercarp]

Kinda disappointing, but I guess it's a step in the right direction. I really hope they take all the feedback we have.

Well, the thing is, the bulky body type was there all along but it was so subtle we didn't even notice it. That's a very clear sign that it needs to be tweaked quite a bit.

- - - Updated - - -

I know this is a different situation, but when Garrosh got his new model in 5.3, people correctly speculated that it was a precursor for something more; indeed, he became the base for the new Orc models in Warlords.

They've done this before, using a new skeleton as an experiment for a new race and stuff. It's just a bit weird that they used a pet instead of a cool NPC this time.

Definitely. I know I'll be thinking about that in the back of my mind whenever I see one of these things running by.

[huth]

I think its similar in scope to Shadowlands systems wise. Sure we have no torghast, but they said leggos might come back. Crafting revamp and gathering revamp are as big as leggo crafting. Covenants are turning into reps. Surely not as big of a system, but still big. Talents are comparable to the Soulbind system.

Shadowlands was actually really feature light if you think about it. It had mega locked reps and torghast. Thats about it.
Dragonflight looks to have and improve on everything shadowlands had minus torghast.

Crafting revamp is a lot bigger than Leggo crafting. Leggo crafting isn't really much different from regular SL crafting, just the interface is different. Wouldn't be surprised if under the hood, it works the same (i.e. Legendary powers are just another "optional reagent", except one that doesn't get used up).

DF totally changes up how crafting is being done and how the outcome is determined, and also adds a whole new level of specialising to it. (Ion mentioned in one interview that you can't just specialise in, say, leather armour, but even in a specific slot, so you can have a master leather helmet crafter on your server.)

[Chickat]

We have no idea how those talents look like. Assuming most of them will be +3% damage, -5% damage taking and +2% crit, there's not much to test anyway.

True. I think its going to be similar to current talent trees but with a bit more freedom to choose which off specabilities you want. Probably wont effect the spec talent tree much, just the base class one. I think its a fantastic idea by the way. You can have a loadout for a ton of specific niche use cases. 5 different loadouts for 1 raid depending on bosses. Different one for each dungeon or affix. Different ones for bgs vs world PVP vs arenas. Different ones for world questing vs rare hunting. If they let you have enough loadout slots there could be 20 different loadouts you would want per spec. Thats awesome. Obviosuly there will be a cookie cutter spec for most raid bosses or dungeons, but you will have a different loadout for aoe, cleave, single target fights. Maybe you want to spec into healing for a healer fight, maybe you are melee and spec into ranged dps or dot damage for a fight with an air faze. It has a ton of potential.

[Malorne the White Stag]

https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blo...-and-tina-wang

Some fantastic Dracthyr stuff here:

- dragon form customization DOES involve torso width being slender or bulkier, as well as different shapes of the face
- you will be able to see tabards, belts AND shoulders in dragon form (with some armor we've seen also being customized in barbershop)


They also make it clear that you are stuck in dragon form for combat, and they double down on dracthyrs being evokers and evokers being dracthyr, so opening it up to other classes is absolutely not in the cards

Well, this is some good news. Still really disappointed with the one class thing.

[Dismayxz]

You might be over selling it slightly. They say you can fly then show a clip of moving in a straight line. So it looks like the flying might be simply abilities you trigger and similar to things we already have examples of in the game for "airborne" attacks.

The interview literally references the Dragonriding in relation to this. He might be overselling, I agree with that. But it does sound like until a certain point in your Dragonriding training, you are just as fine on a Drakthyr, because they can at the very least nosedive and fly for a bit.

[Chickat]

Yep. Top it off with a flight form that allows you to do dragonflight without a mount, and it's game, set, match.

Yeah, and the Dragon form is growing on me. Its kind of noble and cute. Sure its not that badass, but they do like very regal.

[rhorle]

WoW never had a fixed expansion release window in the first place. They've been all over the place.

Isn't that the release window then? August to December? The only expansion to release outside of that was TBC which got delayed to January.

[Chickat]

Didn't Ion say in the Hazelnutty interview that they want the rep for Centaurs, Explorer's League, Reliquary and others to be like Covenants? Where you see what you will unlock once you reach that level with them.

Oh I wasn't aware of a hazle interview.