Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

So I'm a bit confused: in the announcement video before the deep dives Ion mentions hybridization while talking about the talent revamp. Then in the IGN interview he specifically references being a ret/holy or ret/prot paladin, and again mentions that we lost the ability to be hybrids when they got rid of talent trees. But the blue post about the talent revamp specifically says that you cannot put points into more than one spec tree. So where exactly is the hybridization coming from? The "class utility" side? Doesn't that basically just give you standard abilities for the class, not let you dip your toe into more than one spec in a single build?

It's a bit confusing because this isn't really the Return of 1.0 Talents, but Talents 4.0.

So the "hybridization" comes from the left tree, which apparently is also your mechanic for learning all your abilities. So you can choose to invest points into making a "hybrid" by taking tanking skills like Avenger's Shield and dps skills like Crusader Strike. Or healing spells and DPS spells.

But yeah you will still spec into one specific thing and that's where you get the "utility" tree which is the spec one.

[Ersula]

So I'm a bit confused: in the announcement video before the deep dives Ion mentions hybridization while talking about the talent revamp. Then in the IGN interview he specifically references being a ret/holy or ret/prot paladin, and again mentions that we lost the ability to be hybrids when they got rid of talent trees. But the blue post about the talent revamp specifically says that you cannot put points into more than one spec tree. So where exactly is the hybridization coming from? The "class utility" side? Doesn't that basically just give you standard abilities for the class, not let you dip your toe into more than one spec in a single build?

Ion.... is a very troubled man. He gets confused easily.

Really we have no idea what the talents are actually like because we haven't been able to see them yet. For this Talent revamp to be done well they might put some potent off spec abilities in the general class tree, but surely they must be very careful about what they allow. That's mostly why I've been so pessimistic about the return of talent trees: Builds are an illusion. There are loadouts the game is designed to support & loadouts that aren't. I'd love it if specs had multiple loadouts that worked but over the last 18 years that's happened very rarely, no matter what kind of talent interface they were using.

[Izalla]

It's a bit confusing because this isn't really the Return of 1.0 Talents, but Talents 4.0.

So the "hybridization" comes from the left tree, which apparently is also your mechanic for learning all your abilities. So you can choose to invest points into making a "hybrid" by taking tanking skills like Avenger's Shield and dps skills like Crusader Strike. Or healing spells and DPS spells.

But yeah you will still spec into one specific thing and that's where you get the "utility" tree which is the spec one.

I guess that makes sense but it is still odd because you can't like, build on or expand on those abilities outside the spec like idea of hybridization implies. I suppose there is still way more flexibility and creativity and customization than what we have now though (and technically maybe even more than there was back then if you can choose abilities from so far down a spec tree you never would have reached it by dividing your points between two different specs).

I'm excited to be able to have way more freedom to build two different characters of the same spec with actual differences beyond the handful of talent ones we have right now!

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

realistically there's a horizon of sorts where we want to make sure this will work for 2-3 expansions, and beyond that it's sort of a "future us" problem

Just prune the talent trees back down in a few expansions. But the fact Ion is like "that's a future team problem" makes me wonder if he sees himself on WoW in another 4-6 years.


Also, lol.

This didn't mean borrowed power will be gone forever - even gear and tier sets are a form of power that is continually replaced or left behind as players move into a new tier or expansion, and they don't want to completely shut the door on the idea of exciting or thematic patch-specific systems.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/ion-haz...-renown-326789

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I guess that makes sense but it is still odd because you can't like, build on or expand on those abilities outside the spec like idea of hybridization implies. I suppose there is still way more flexibility and creativity and customization than what we have now though (and technically maybe even more than there was back then if you can choose abilities from so far down a spec tree you never would have reached it by dividing your points between two different specs).

I'm excited to be able to have way more freedom to build two different characters of the same spec with actual differences beyond the handful of talent ones we have right now!

Yeah it's a bit of a weird way to look at hybridization while talking about Classic-inspired trees. Hybrid is a bit of a loaded term when referencing those days.

I think he looks at hybridization here as like how as a druid today you can take a talent that gives you a couple off-spec skills and maybe a passive effect. You're not literally building into being able to do both, you're just "your spec but with a few extra buttons."

[rhorle]

You're not literally building into being able to do both, you're just "your spec but with a few extra buttons."

Which is essentially what the hybrid trees allowed in the past. Your spec with a few of the early rows of talents. In this case you have a lot more freedom because the order you unlock talents isn't bound by the spec so much as the order in the talent tree.

[Izalla]

Just prune the talent trees back down in a few expansions. But the fact Ion is like "that's a future team problem" makes me wonder if he sees himself on WoW in another 4-6 years.


Also, lol.



https://www.wowhead.com/news/ion-haz...-renown-326789

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Yeah it's a bit of a weird way to look at hybridization while talking about Classic-inspired trees. Hybrid is a bit of a loaded term when referencing those days.

I think he looks at hybridization here as like how as a druid today you can take a talent that gives you a couple off-spec skills and maybe a passive effect. You're not literally building into being able to do both, you're just "your spec but with a few extra buttons."

They should just stop trying to force us to be viable and just let us pick our own shitty set ups. Give templates for new players to have an idea of how they SHOULD be using the talents so they don't end up gimping themselves in huge ways, but let me willingly and knowingly make a mess of myself if I find that to be the most fun way to play!

Just thinking back to when me and my sister played D2 as kids and neither of us knew shit about abilities so she just put a single talent point into every single available skill in all three trees on her druid. She sucked at the game (on a personal level and on the level of her character being weaker than it should have been if she had picked a proper build) but still managed to beat it that way because she didn't know any better but was having fun and played to the end hahaha

(I should add we played offline and only through normal mode, we were kids after all)

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Which is essentially what the hybrid trees allowed in the past. Your spec with a few of the early rows of talents. In this case you have a lot more freedom because the order you unlock talents isn't bound by the spec so much as the order in the talent tree.

Yeah this part is what gives me some hope that it will be more than just being allowed to pick a guardian melee ability on a balance druid you will literally never use because it's one ability and weak as hell since you have no way to build on it after picking it

[Revamp Man]

do we know if the dracthyr ever saw a tauren or a gnome or anything??
like they are a race specifically made in this new place that was hidden for a millenia so im not surprised they dont really know any other class skills or any other racial forms

that said im glad there are other options that werent shown in the video because i wasnt bahammutt and Tiamatt to be bulky

im also wondering why some think that we wont get mythic versions of 4 dungeons just because they arent in the m+ season since weve had this multiple times in the past with mega dungeons and because early game trinkets are usually boring AF and i want some cool stuff from older dungeons

this expansion looks good even if we only get 4/5 of the things shown like usual

now let me ride away on my dragon that looks like old fat thor

[Chickat]

Reopen the woooons and start BfA all over again.

Leaving the sword the f alone is about the best thing we can do with it.

Champion what have ye don?

What Magni, if blizzards not gonna give me another artifact to grind ill regrind Azerite.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Can't wait for them to remember the sword only after the Titan is born and be like "uh. UH. We left it there because she'll use it."

[Kohtra]

So we still have whatever story content is coming in 9.2.5 and THEN we get the prepatch story content. We basically still have 2 patches worth of story before the expansion launches.

[Chickat]

Why would you not google it before making this comment? He's right, Darkfallen are San'layn. They're vampires blood elves from Wrath, not Dark Rangers. Although I guess Blizz could combine the two.

They retconned it. Darkfallen are any undead elf.

[Makabreska]

Champion what have ye don?

What Magni, if blizzards not gonna give me another artifact to grind ill regrind Azerite.

Oh, btw. Betting my tier set that the stone chad from the cinematic will be a new Magni, or at least a relevant NPC.

[Izalla]

Can't wait for them to remember the sword only after the Titan is born and be like "uh. UH. We left it there because she'll use it."

Just send the goblins down there again, I'm sure they can harvest the material from it for fun and profit and then eventually poof! Gone.

[Chickat]

You know considering the Explorers league is a main faction in Dragonflight its a damn shame they arent updating archeology.

[Ersula]

do we know if the dracthyr ever saw a tauren or a gnome or anything??
like they are a race specifically made in this new place that was hidden for a millenia so im not surprised they dont really know any other class skills or any other racial forms

No, because the Dragon Isles were sealed off to protect the titan machinery that created Dragon-kind from the legion, and were not unsealed until the Legion & N'zoth were completely dealt with (and then a giant hole in the sky over Northrend).

Neltharion specifically bred them with Vrykul (they said humans but lets ignore that, they just do this for a living) and ignore that its the Blood Elf male model, its supposed to be a human bloodline. So they don't actually choose a humanoid form, they're not the same species as Dragons. Also on top of that the description eluded to them also sleeping in stasis like the Illidari.

[Izalla]

Oh, btw. Betting my tier set that the stone chad from the cinematic will be a new Magni, or at least a relevant NPC.

I hope they keep him a quiet guy of few words who we get to see and interact with sometimes but who isn't constantly there talking to us all the time.

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You know considering the Explorers league is a main faction in Dragonflight its a damn shame they arent updating archeology.

Yeah even just slapping a few excavation areas down all through the zones so that we can at least use archaeology even if they plan on updating it later on to make it more interesting. The least interesting thing about it is the fact that they haven't actually used it for anything good since Cata.

[Chickat]

Players do love transmog though, and if this is a form that will be closer in practice to a Worgen form then it seems a bit unfair to make players exempt from all the cool transmog being added, even if it's what Druids have to live with all the time.

Where would you draw the line though? If full transmog was added, what slots do you think would be fitting to allow?

They already answered, but I see no reason why we couldn't have the top of boots like all hooved races have, gloves, bracers, chest, legs, shoulders, belts, tabards. Maybe even weapons idk about that one. Really the only issue would be cloaks, boots, and helms.

[Khaza-R]

do we know if the dracthyr ever saw a tauren or a gnome or anything??
like they are a race specifically made in this new place that was hidden for a millenia so im not surprised they dont really know any other class skills or any other racial forms

Better question is how do they look like a race that didn't even exist yet

[Chickat]

Bear in mind, there's plenty of situations that involve hovering or flying animations where you're still able to be attacked as normal and are vulnerable to ground hazards even if the visual indicates otherwise.

It's entirely possible they might take said flying and make some liberties with it for balance reasons. As absolutely cool as having some of that mobility would be on a caster.

Yeah, it could be anywhere from a standard movement ability like spiritwalkers, all the way up to spiritwalkers with ground aoe invulnerability and a sprint effect.

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You can see the difference between the two body types in the image below. Slender on the left, Bulky on the right. Credit to Portergauge on Twitter for pointing this out.

Eh its slightly better but not far enough. The head is still too small, the shoulders need to be broader, the neck shorter, and maybe beefier legs and arms. Its a start I suppose.

[Ersula]

Better question is how do they look like a race that didn't even exist yet

Tauren existed before the War of the Ancients. And when the Curse of flesh exactly happened has been ambiguous, but apparently now it was canonically before WotA, because these are specifically Dragon mixed with "human" (they said human but canonically humans don't exist yet, surely they mean vrykul) DNA.

Do you think they'll chicken out & have them be created by magic or will they go for it & be literal? They said "bred" did Neltharian actually have sex with a thousand Vrykul women for an experiment?