Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Raetary]

All of this debate could have been avoided if the race would have just been Drakonids and Dracthyr as a metamorphosis style CD for Evokers.

"All of this could've been avoided if they went with the most boring and unimaginative route possible"

[huth]

"All of this could've been avoided if they went with the most boring and unimaginative route possible"

I mean, it's technically true. Though i doubt the debate that would have ensued from that would have been any more palatable.

[Santandame]

People saying it doesn't make sense lorewise that Dracthyr can be anything other than Evokers are being being disingenuous.

Makes no sense that a Dracthyr can't choose to pick up an axe and smash things or use a bow and arrow and tame beasts, at the very least.

Then you could argue Mage, Shamans and Druids for their connection to arcane magic, the elements and the green Dragonflight.

Priests in lore could worship Elune, like the Night Elves.

The only ones that would take some lore bending would be Paladins, Death Knights, Warlocks, Monks and Demon Hunters.

Rogues are ruled out because I imagine it would be hard for Dracthyr to be stealthy.

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"All of this could've been avoided if they went with the most boring and unimaginative route possible"

I don't think Drakonids as a race are particularly boring and I think many would agree with me.

[Cheezits]

I don't think Drakonids as a race are particularly boring and I think many would agree with me.

I don't dislike Drakonids but compared to Dracthyr:

A) They only represent one flight at a time/don't have Dracthyr's "prism" theme
B) Aren't as conventionally attractive
C) Don't have wings

All sticking points against them.

[boyzma]

Because expanding it beyond it's intended purpose potentially ruins the concept. A better option is to just ask Blizzard to make Drakonoids playable (the big ugly dumb kind). It probably won't happen, but its better than attempting to ruin an excellent concept.

I am in total agreement with you. Maybe in the future....maybe....Blizzard will let other classes be dragons...but to me it makes no sense. I mean...I have mained a tauren hunter since Vanilla. How derpy would it look for her to come flying in, land, turn into some massive (because they are a lot bigger than humanoid classes) dragon and then pull out a bow/gun and start pew pewing? Is that what people want? Or to start shooting fire and magic? I don't get it. Leave it be. And I admire your patience in trying to get through peoples heads, but it doesn't seem to be working

[Raetary]

I don't think Drakonids as a race are particularly boring and I think many would agree with me.

They are not, i even just advocated for Drakonids to be added last page.

But dumbing down Evokers to a 2 minute cooldown absolutely is boring.

[Santandame]

I'm pretty sure they didn't have confidence in Drakonids and/or wanted the race to have wings. But more likely, unironically, they didn't have the resources for both.

And, as said above me, the race being "Dragons but not really" would be a turnoff for a lot of non-hardcore wow fans.

It's a shame if they feel that way because I feel like Drakonids would very likely be more played than Gnomes, Pandas, Goblins, Kul Tirans, LF Draenei, HM Tauren and Nightborne at the very least. Possibly even moreso than Dwarves, Tauren and Forsaken.

[Teriz]

How come though?

Most Class animations are fairly standardized, and the Dracthyr use existing rigging, so as long as they have generic melee and casting animations, they could fit any class.

Lore has never really been a deterring factor as we've seen they can make stuff up on the fly. At this point its just what Blizzard wants for the race rather than any story or technological reason, but we know they're open to feedback.


If cross-faction play became a thing, then anything is on the table imo, I don't think Blizzard will be stubborn about anything again provided there is enough feedback.

This is a situation where people want something, but they really don’t. The entire purpose of this race is for the Evoker, and the entire purpose of the Evoker is the Dracthyr. You remove any part of that relationship and things begin falling apart.

For example, let’s allow Dracthyr to become any class. How does their visage system work? Are they going to be like Worgen where you stay in Dracthyr form 99% of the time (BORING)? Are they going to maintain the mechanics from the Evoker class and only turn into Dracthyr when in combat? Are we going to give them full armor and allow them to swing weapons? Okay, we’ll now the entire point of the Dracthyr is altered. What about their wings? Other classes don’t have aerial abilities, so now you have these huge wings in the back that clip with cloaks and sheathed weapons.

What about racials? We’ll give them draconic racials of course right? We’ll now you’re stepping on the toes of the Evoker class and making them somewhat redundant.

Speaking of the Evoker, once you remove the Dracthyr from being linked to the Evoker, the new class now makes no sense, and you have a class that only one race can play as. That can’t stand, so now you’re going to have to change the Evoker to something that can fit general races. It now becomes another boring spellcaster, and we’ve lost an interesting and innovative class.

No thank you.

[Cheezits]

It's a shame if they feel that way because I feel like Drakonids would very likely be more played than Gnomes, Pandas, Goblins, Kul Tirans, LF Draenei, HM Tauren and Nightborne at the very least. Possibly even moreso than Dwarves, Tauren and Forsaken.

I agree, but they want a race that can compete with human and blood elves instead of a mid-popularity race. Hence why they can turn into two of the most popular races in the game.

If they open up combat for the visage forms I think Dracthyr could become some of the most playable races, doubly so when they can be druid and hunter down the line.

[Santandame]

I don't dislike Drakonids but compared to Dracthyr:

A) They only represent one flight at a time/don't have Dracthyr's "prism" theme
B) Aren't as conventionally attractive
C) Don't have wings

All sticking points against them.

I actually really love the Dracthyr model. I'm pissed they can only be Evokers.

I'm more referencing the passionate debate over always Dracthyr form vs. Visage in combat form. No matter what, people are going to be pissed.

Drakonids would have been safe. People wouldn't have been pissed at their implementation and there wouldn't have been this debate about the two forms.

[Cheezits]

I actually really love the Dracthyr model. I'm pissed they can only be Evokers.

I'm more referencing the passionate debate over always Dracthyr form vs. Visage in combat form. No matter what, people are going to be pissed.

Drakonids would have been safe. People wouldn't have been pissed at their implementation and there wouldn't have been this debate about the two forms.

The fact that people are actually debating about Dracthyr means they care about what happens to them. Drakonids would've been safe and had less debating/fixing needed, but I doubt they have the potential audience of the Dracthyr.

Debates/whining before Alpha starts is better than mid-level reception throughout without any hangups. Though I doubt they will add classes to Dracthyr until at LEAST a patch, they definitely will add more to their models and/or tweak how visage works.

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Pretty cool interview snippet with Muffinus:

https://gamerant.com/world-of-warcra...tory-factions/

-Stone Drakes, Twilight Dragons and Storm Drakes will appear. Netherwings may also appear
-Dragonspawn and Drakonid culture will be explored
-Emerald Dream origin may be explained

[Raetary]

Makes no sense that a Dracthyr can't choose to pick up an axe and smash things or use a bow and arrow and tame beasts, at the very least.

Whether they can pick up an axe or not isn't the question, but rather "why would a Dracthyr, a humanoid dragon being that has holds the essence of all dragonflights combined, resort to menial forms of battle instead of just using their draconic powers?".

It makes no sense for them to be other classes, because Evokers isn't just a random class but the description of the Dracthyrs powers.
Dracthyr ARE Evokers from the ground up, they are one and the same.

[Santandame]

The fact that people are actually debating about Dracthyr means they care about what happens to them. Drakonids would've been safe and had less debating/fixing needed, but I doubt they have the potential audience of the Dracthyr.

Debates/whining before Alpha starts is better than mid-level reception throughout without any hangups. Though I doubt they will add classes to Dracthyr until at LEAST a patch, they definitely will add more to their models and/or tweak how visage works.

You've made some very good ponts and I agree and have changed my stance slightly.

I'll always stand by the Dracthyr as Evokers only though is a silly decision. We may get them available as other classes eventually but I just feel it would have been in the general consensus of players best interests to have Dracthyr made available to a wider selection of classes at launch. It sucks for those who love the Dracthyr form, but won't vibe with Evoker. It's also something that could have been slightly better accepted if there was either a melee or tank spec available too.

This is why I believe that Drakonid absolutely must be an Allied Race available at launch or not long after. Blizz need to throw a bone to the players who want to play a Dragon style creature but not as an Evoker.

[Cheezits]

Whether they can pick up an axe or not isn't the question, but rather "why would a Dracthyr, a humanoid dragon being that has holds the essence of all dragonflights combined, resort to menial forms of battle instead of just using their draconic powers?"

Same reason human warriors exist when they can tap into Arcane the best out of any race. Same with Nightborne warriors, Orc anything but shamans, etc.

The racial prowess doesn't matter if it means for characterization. It doesn't make sense for Dracthyr at launch to be warriors because they likely have zero melee training, but down the line? It is shitty lore for every single one of them to want to continue being one class UNLESS their lore is that they are literally robots programmed to only do aspect magic.

[Santandame]

Whether they can pick up an axe or not isn't the question, but rather "why would a Dracthyr, a humanoid dragon being that has holds the essence of all dragonflights combined, resort to menial forms of battle instead of just using their draconic powers?".

It makes no sense for them to be other classes, because Evokers isn't just a random class but the description of the Dracthyrs powers.
Dracthyr ARE Evokers from the ground up, they are one and the same.

I would say it is a little disingenuous to say that Shamans, Druids and Mages are menial classes.

As for why they would play as other classes - because why not? As far as we know, they're individuals, not a hive mind. Maybe some Dracthyr have a personality that steers them to want to follow and practice Druidism, or arcane arts.

Maybe some Dracthyr are particularly physical and hot headed and want to pummel and smash things with big weapons as opposed to fighting from afar.

Maybe some Dracthyr picked up a bow and arrow and thought "hmmm, I like this."

[elderu]

Blizzards presentation of this race make it seem like

the Blood Elf Male and Human Female Visage forms are the race,

And that the Drachthyr dragon form is just a decked out Class Form with mild customization.

So far we see
Visage Form can where all armor, has Race-level quantity of customization options.
Dracthyr form has barber shop options for Dracthyr unique armor/models that are like the Nightborne accessories at best.

(Honestly not sure if their wording was bad in that dev interview explaining they might wear armor, but i believe they simply meant the barbershop options, not traditional armor.)

If they wanted to show that The Dracthyr Dragon form was REALLY the race, they didn't do a great job imo.

[Alanar]

"All of this could've been avoided if they went with the most boring and unimaginative route possible"

Look, not everyone is as excited as you are with the approach. I still kinda agree with one class one race is the worst idea ever. It's only limiting players.

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Blizzards presentation of this race make it seem like

the Blood Elf Male and Human Female Visage forms are the race,

Wolfing out means: Drakthyr will just look like humans or blood elves. They will have armor on etc, so half of the stuff isn't even shown. Transmog excists, so ye some will probably go shirtless. But, in the end of the day the silhouette is what sticks around. They could have atleast made the idle animation different, but nope. Blood elf model has just been used a little bit to much, with barely any changes.

[huth]

Look, not everyone is as excited as you are with the approach. I still kinda agree with one class one race is the worst idea ever. It's only limiting players.

Without limiting players, there'd be no game. A game is a set of limitations to what you can do.

The idea that limiting players is inherently bad thus makes no sense.

[Alanar]

Without limiting players, there'd be no game. A game is a set of limitations to what you can do.

The idea that limiting players is inherently bad thus makes no sense.

This is really taking it way out of context. I am obviously talking about one class one race combo. Just one thing. Is imo just not a great idea. If you not into it, there is literally nothing there for you with either the class or race.

[Syegfryed]

"All of this could've been avoided if they went with the most boring and unimaginative route possible"

Ah yes, taking demonhunter 2.0 selling as race sure is very imaginative and not boring at all