1. #52981
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I am arguing against your point that a race should be using its natural gifts.
    Worgen don't use their natural gifts often (if at all) because they're trying to retain their humanity and reject the Worgen curse.

    Dragons on the other hand love using their draconic powers.

  2. #52982
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Worgen don't use their natural gifts often (if at all) because they're trying to retain their humanity and reject the Worgen curse.
    Uhhhhhhhhh what? Got a source for that? Because Worgen druids and rogues are their two most iconic classes and the only "Worgen character" notable for not using their gift is because she doesn't have it to begin with (Tess).

  3. #52983
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Its amazing how we are DEVOLVING from a development standpoint.

    A while ago, people talk about how could be better to have more freedom, options and choices in the gameplay, opening more classes to other races and all. Now, people are talking how is good one race/class that came out of their asses recently to be so limited.

    No one is gaining anything from that, in the opposite, we are losing, but people want to claim is the right decision because "blizzard said so", when they, on purpose, made it to be limited so they have less work, not because it makes sense.

  4. #52984
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    While increasing the classes for Dracthyr will likely decrease the chances of Draknoids (something I don't think people have realized yet) it's silly to claim expanding classes for Dracthyr ruins them, when class expansions haven't ruined any other races in the past nor do I think that has ever been popular opinion.
    What sense would it make for a Dracthyr warrior to be covered in plate armor and swinging a sword, while a Dracthyr Evoker is pretty much naked and just using claws? Evoker players are going to start asking for the weapons and armor to show up in the Evoker class as well. On the flip side, non Evokers are going to start asking for abilities in the other classes that allow them to use their wings, tails, and breath. Now you have a development mess where no one is happy.

    Again, best not to bother and keep things the way they are.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Uhhhhhhhhh what? Got a source for that? Because Worgen druids and rogues are their two most iconic classes and the only "Worgen character" notable for not using their gift is because she doesn't have it to begin with (Tess).
    Dig through Wowpedia, it's in there. You can even look at WoW-based Worgen artwork from the playable race. If you notice, they're still using daggers, swords, and guns despite being wolfmen. Admittedly Genn is a weird example, where they show him going beastial for dramatic purposes.

  5. #52985
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Worgen don't use their natural gifts often (if at all) because they're trying to retain their humanity and reject the Worgen curse.

    Dragons on the other hand love using their draconic powers.
    Then what about tauren shaman and orc mages, who don't use their bulk? Or gnomes, the shortest and weakest race being warriors? Trolls have increased regeneration, should they only be melee classes? Let dracthyr be a race and have some show an interest in a variety of things, even if they don't use their natural gifts.

  6. #52986
    Quote Originally Posted by Malorne the White Stag View Post
    They are currently, but it was mentioned in an interview they are open to the idea of letting people fight in visage form.
    12 years and they haven't even added a feature so Worgen can auto-shift back to their human form OoC. Not to be cynical but I wouldn't be too hopeful.

  7. #52987
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Because expanding it beyond it's intended purpose potentially ruins the concept. A better option is to just ask Blizzard to make Drakonoids playable (the big ugly dumb kind). It probably won't happen, but its better than attempting to ruin an excellent concept.
    It don't, it doesn't ruin the concept at all, it actually expand then to make sense in the warcraft thematic.

    The dracthyr are not full dragons, they can't be gigantic, they eventually need other classes as a functional race.

    thats the point of RPG, if you want to play a pre-determined character, go play HOTS, in a RPG we build our own character, we build their story and development, with a wide range of options.

    Wizards of the costs is doing that, and its getting all the money, becoming more popular than ever, that is the right path to take.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-04-22 at 01:46 PM.

  8. #52988
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Its amazing how we are DEVOLVING from a development standpoint.

    A while ago, people talk about how could be better to have more freedom, options and choices in the gameplay, opening more classes to other races and all. Now, people are talking how is good one race/class that came out of their asses recently to be so limited.
    No, one person is talking about how it is good, and I disagree with them that it is good. What I think it is is understandable: if Blizzard was in as bad a state as people claim it was, then we likely wouldn't have this race at all without the half-measures like only one class.

    The visage forms being reduced is choice based however. They could've definitely just put horns on every race for visage but instead decided to make them a unique racial appearance, probably to make the race look less cheap (even if the visage forms were "lore friendly" and could be anyone, I can see a lot of players calling it a lazy race because of how few new art assets would be used). But because they did that they had to reduce the visages down to two.

    Their decision to make the Dracthyr gender-neutral also means they couldn't make two very different looking bodies, so they HAD to have more art assets in some way.

  9. #52989
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Its amazing how we are DEVOLVING from a development standpoint.

    A while ago, people talk about how could be better to have more freedom, options and choices in the gameplay, opening more classes to other races and all. Now, people are talking how is good one race/class that came out of their asses recently to be so limited.

    No one is gaining anything from that, in the opposite, we are losing, but people want to claim is the right decision because "blizzard said so", when they, on purpose, made it to be limited so they have less work, not because it makes sense.
    We're gaining an awesome class that represents the draconic aspects characterized by Alexstraza, Wrathion, Chromie, Kalecgos, and other popular dragons. We shouldn't drag that awesome concept down by making them just another race that has wings and claws for no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malorne the White Stag View Post
    Then what about tauren shaman and orc mages, who don't use their bulk? Or gnomes, the shortest and weakest race being warriors? Trolls have increased regeneration, should they only be melee classes?
    Except there are Orc Mages and Tauren Shaman in lore. There's also multiple examples of Troll hunters and Witch Doctors.

    In lore, dragons like Alexstraza and co. are only dragons. That's what the new race is designed to represent.

  10. #52990
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    12 years and they haven't even added a feature so Worgen can auto-shift back to their human form OoC. Not to be cynical but I wouldn't be too hopeful.
    Probably because its a hard sell to allow development to work on such a niche feature.

    Because it's so heavily requested for a box feature of a new expansion, it will likely be added and then retrofit onto Worgen.

  11. #52991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    It don't, it doesn't ruin the concept at all, it actually expand then to make sense in the warcraft thematic.

    The dracthyr are not full dragons, they can't be gigantic, they eventually need other classes as a functional race.

    thats the point of RPG, if you want to play a pre-determined character, go play HOTS, in a RPG we build our own character, we build their story and development, with a wide range of options.

    Wizards of the costs is doing that, and its getting all the money, becoming more popular than ever, that is the right path to take.
    Why would I play HotS? I'm perfectly happy with the design decisions for this new race, and I'm defending those decisions. You're the one unhappy about Blizzard's design for the Dracthyr. Shouldn't you be the one looking for another game to play right now?

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    I've been saying this forever, but I really want them to do small raids (1-2 bosses) again, and I believe the period before the first tier officially starts is a good time.

    Before I was stating it could be to wrap up some zone storylines (Ysera being a 1 boss raid, Dealing with the Drust being a 1 boss raid,...).

    Seeing how the first tier open 2 weeks after launch, these could be single difficulty (flex) with like an item level between Mythic dungeon and Normal raid, or like Normal raid. Use it to wrap up zone storylines or old world storylines. And easily just instance an outdoor area and add 1 boss (like Ysera battle at Temple of Elune)

    In DF with the theme of the expansion and the bronze dragonflight they can reuse even more assets. We could have various dragon fights from the past as 1-2 boss raids.
    1. Malygos
    2. Nefarian (Vanilla fight -> Cata fight)
    3. Onyxia
    4. Spine of Deathwing + Madness
    5. Sinestra
    6. Sindragosa
    7. Nythendra
    8. Sapphiron
    9. Ultraxion
    10. Halion
    11. Sartharion
    12. Kalec (SWP)
    13. Wrathion (Nyalotha)
    14. Vexiona
    15. Theralion and Valiona
    16. Nightbane

    And I am ofc missing some but lets say we get 3 patches (10.1, 10.2, 10.3) with a raid tier each. There is theoretically from the ones I listed enough dragon fights for 4 per tier. This would only require them to scale the fights to our level and chose rewards. Imo that would be a fun raid to bridge the gap between expac/patch release and tier release
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  13. #52993
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    No, one person is talking about how it is good, and I disagree with them that it is good. What I think it is is understandable: if Blizzard was in as bad a state as people claim it was, then we likely wouldn't have this race at all without the half-measures like only one class.
    Allowing then to be other classes will not cost then a raid tier, they now have to work on the dragon form to wear armor and done.

    The visage forms being reduced is choice based however. They could've definitely just put horns on every race for visage but instead decided to make them a unique racial appearance, probably to make the race look less cheap (even if the visage forms were "lore friendly" and could be anyone, I can see a lot of players calling it a lazy race because of how few new art assets would be used). But because they did that they had to reduce the visages down to two.
    They chose to make the visage form have to many customizations to hide their laziness on the actual dragon form, that is what we call smockscreen tactic, because its a re-used demon hunter idea sold as race.

    We already saw in shadowlands that adding a wide range of customizations for multiple, IS NOT HARD.

    Doing this half-asset end up being worse than making what people wanted, so now they have to run for their money to fix it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    We're gaining an awesome class that represents the draconic aspects characterized by Alexstraza, Wrathion, Chromie, Kalecgos, and other popular dragons. We shouldn't drag that awesome concept down by making them just another race that has wings and claws for no reason.
    My dude, you don't know how this class will be, just by the presentation we can even say its going to be lame half-asset that just have 2 specs

    It does not even use fire to heal like you wanted to. Youc an't even change to a gnome like Chromie that you used as example, or other visages like the dragons we saw so far.

    Allowing other players to play like they want - with other classes or visages - will not remove anything from you, stop being selfish


    In lore, dragons like Alexstraza and co. are only dragons. That's what the new race is designed to represent.
    The way they designed is bad and limiting, so they should change

    Its how things are.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Why would I play HotS? I'm perfectly happy with the design decisions for this new race, and I'm defending those decisions. You're the one unhappy about Blizzard's design for the Dracthyr. Shouldn't you be the one looking for another game to play right now?
    Like i said, if you are happy, good for you.

    Changing so other people can be happy as well will not ruin your happiness

    unless you are salty about tinkers and this is why you are in this crusade for the new race/class to be bad, so you can point that out later.

  14. #52994
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I don't want small tiers(1-2 bosses is way too small like waaaay too much). Raid size has never been an issue for me. At worst its overtuning(I'm not a mythic raider so mythic mode doesn't concern me so my criticisms don't apply so relax your panties) or maybe as a guildie puts it overwhelming amounts of mechanics(I don't necessarily agree all the time but sometimes it happens).
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2022-04-22 at 02:01 PM.
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  15. #52995
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    We already saw in shadowlands that adding a wide range of customizations for multiple, IS NOT HARD.

    Doing this half-asset end up being worse than making what people wanted, so now they have to run for their money to fix it.
    The reason they even were able to do customizations for races in Shadowlands was because there was no race or race/class combos to work on. Did you ever think of WHY that was the only expansion where the base races ever got touched on, besides WoD, another expansion with no race or class???

  16. #52996
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    My dude, you don't know how this class will be, just by the presentation we can even say its going to be lame half-asset that just have 2 specs

    You haven't been paying attention to the interviews or the source material for this class. If you had, you would have a better idea of how this class is going to play. They have ariel attacks that utilize the wings. They have abilities from HotS like Wing Buffet that use the wings. They're going to have tail and breath attacks. They're going to have CDs that utilize the scales. These are all abilities that can't be replicated in other classes. So yes you RUIN the concept of the Dracthyr by expanding it beyond the Evoker class; The class that is purposely designed to represent draconic powers and abilities.

    It does not even use fire to heal like you wanted to. Youc an't even change to a gnome like Chromie that you used as example, or other visages like the dragons we saw so far.
    While it's not using fire to heal, it is using other Alexstraza HotS healing abilities. And while you can't be every race in the book, they're still using visages, just like the dragon aspects.

    Allowing other players to play like they want - with other classes or visages - will not remove anything from you, stop being selfish
    Again, players who don't want to be Evokers have plenty of other options. They can go there, and leave this concept alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Like i said, if you are happy, good for you.

    Changing so other people can be happy as well will not ruin your happiness
    Except people like you will never be happy. So there's no point in altering great stuff just to meet your criteria for what is or is not good.

    unless you are salty about tinkers and this is why you are in this crusade for the new race/class to be bad, so you can point that out later.
    Not at all. I've wanted this particular class for a while now, and now that I'm getting it, I don't want it potentially ruined by people who don't understand the purpose behind it.

  17. #52997
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, players who don't want to be Evokers have plenty of other options. They can go there, and leave this concept alone.
    I wouldn't be so certain. If Ion is saying that something will probably happen on WEEK ONE, and we're talking about the lawyer here, it probably will.

    They will take their time to add classes for Dracthyr because they can use lore as an excuse, but it will 99% happen.

  18. #52998
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    The reason they even were able to do customizations for races in Shadowlands was because there was no race or race/class combos to work on.
    pfff, are you serious?

    tell me how hard they need to work to make a "class combo" when all races already have all the class animations

    Worgens and goblins are not monks simple because blizzard don't want to allow it.

    Did you ever think of WHY that was the only expansion where the base races ever got touched on, besides WoD, another expansion with no race or class???
    then why the fuck the drachtyr evoker is so half-asset?

    If they are cutting so much to do this one, why they are not allowing other visages with the customizations? jesus man, blizzard is not a indie company.

  19. #52999
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    pfff, are you serious?

    tell me how hard they need to work to make a "class combo" when all races already have all the class animations
    Druids, Shamans and Paladins all require additional art assets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    then why the fuck the drachtyr evoker is so half-asset?

    If they are cutting so much to do this one, why they are not allowing other visages with the customizations? jesus man, blizzard is not a indie company.
    Because it was too much work to put scales eyes horns new hair on other races that aren't as popular.

  20. #53000
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I wouldn't be so certain. If Ion is saying that something will probably happen on WEEK ONE, and we're talking about the lawyer here, it probably will.

    They will take their time to add classes for Dracthyr because they can use lore as an excuse, but it will 99% happen.
    I doubt it. He also said that no other class fits the Dracthyr. So he's talking out of both sides of his mouth like the lawyer he is. If the goal was to make Dracthyr other classes, they would be other classes out of the gate.

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