Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nagawithlegs]

Aren't Undead/NElf Heritage Sets just the Darkshore Warfront rewards?

I thought that was why we didn't get UD/NElf/Human/Orc heritage sets.

People asked that and yeah they said they still plan on heritage armors for .5 patches (with none happening in 9.0.5 because it wasn't really a patch they had palnned).

Night Elf and Forsaken are the big Azeroth races for SL but they could throw a curveball and show us what Draenei, Darkspear, Humans, Orcs and/or Pandas have been up to.

[Cosmic Janitor]

People asked that and yeah they said they still plan on heritage armors for .5 patches (with none happening in 9.0.5 because it wasn't really a patch they had palnned).

Night Elf and Forsaken are the big Azeroth races for SL but they could throw a curveball and show us what Draenei, Darkspear, Humans, Orcs and/or Pandas have been up to.

Forsaken really aren't big at all. Nelfs are, because we at least interact with their souls, but forsaken are completly forgotten and only their former leader is shown so far.

[rainhard]

Wasnt there an acheology questline datamined at start of 9.1? could have something to do with 9.1.5 maybe.

[Nagawithlegs]

Forsaken really aren't big at all. Nelfs are, because we at least interact with their souls, but forsaken are completly forgotten and only their former leader is shown so far.

Forsaken have had said leader as their only characterization for longer than their Vanilla-era character (Cata-on they barely had any character beyond DARK LADY). Also, their former leader and suspected new leader are both in the expansion. Hell, said characters will probably speak for the first time since BTS in the next patch.

While I think it's wasted potential that the Forsaken weren't used in Maldraxxus (the homeplace of Necromancy) they can still feature. Even fi there isn't a single important Forsaken-model Forsaken in the expansion their future will be determined here with what happens to Sylvanas (guessing she dies/brave suicides and Calia takes over) so it may as well be their expansion tied with the Nelves.

Also, Danuser DID say Necromancy magic would be clarified in a future quest. This could be Zereth Mortis related or it could have to do with the Forsaken.

[Black Rider]

Was that ever in question?

What zone would be, that was the question

[Cosmic Janitor]

Forsaken have had said leader as their only characterization for longer than their Vanilla-era character (Cata-on they barely had any character beyond DARK LADY). Also, their former leader and suspected new leader are both in the expansion. Hell, said characters will probably speak for the first time since BTS in the next patch.

While I think it's wasted potential that the Forsaken weren't used in Maldraxxus (the homeplace of Necromancy) they can still feature. Even fi there isn't a single important Forsaken-model Forsaken in the expansion their future will be determined here with what happens to Sylvanas (guessing she dies/brave suicides and Calia takes over) so it may as well be their expansion tied with the Nelves.

Also, Danuser DID say Necromancy magic would be clarified in a future quest. This could be Zereth Mortis related or it could have to do with the Forsaken.

Nelfs are still very much part of the current plot, Forsaken are not. They even forgot about Calia since 9.0. Blizzard can obviously shoehorn something in, I mean the other heritage sets where added at random as well for the most part, but Forsaken are certainly not a faction that are relevant to the shadowlands.

[Nagawithlegs]

Nelfs are still very much part of the current plot, Forsaken are not. They even forgot about Calia since 9.0. Blizzard can obviously shoehorn something in, I mean the other heritage sets where added at random as well for the most part, but Forsaken are certainly not a faction that are relevant to the shadowlands.

The Nelf plot just ended though, while Calia has been sitting patiently waiting for Sylvanas to be in captivity so they can talk. I don’t see how Tyrande and Elune will be relevant after the Night Fae story unless the Realms of Life get involved in Zeroth Mortis (which would be a neat way to get some cool creatures).

[Cosmic Janitor]

The Nelf plot just ended though, while Calia has been sitting patiently waiting for Sylvanas to be in captivity so they can talk. I don’t see how Tyrande and Elune will be relevant after the Night Fae story unless the Realms of Life get involved in Zeroth Mortis (which would be a neat way to get some cool creatures).

Weren't you the one that went on and on about the live lands or some such?

Anyway, I guess it will depend on what the next major patch will be. Will they cram in another side track? Do we get a big final patch with maybe more than one zone? Will we get another budget zone and end the expansion on a whimper? It's probably all in the cards right now. The .5 patch will probably chart the course.. Sylvanas story could end up as the next maw sigil bearer, which she then later gifts to restore the arbiter and create a portal or something like that. A story like that could easily fit into a .5 patch as well and wouldn't involve the Forsaken at all. They could also make it all about Calia's shrink powers as well though .. but I feel that would turn out a bit weird after having heard nothing of her for months, but then again that is par for the course as well.

[Hellspawn]

The Nelf plot just ended though, while Calia has been sitting patiently waiting for Sylvanas to be in captivity so they can talk. I don’t see how Tyrande and Elune will be relevant after the Night Fae story unless the Realms of Life get involved in Zeroth Mortis (which would be a neat way to get some cool creatures).

The Nelf plot is not done yet but almost I guess. I don't think Tyrande/Elune will have a role in Shadowlands main plot (All of the Night Elf plot had no real influence on the main story so why would that change now?). I think the last part of the Night Elf plot will just ignore that the end of everything is not far away (granted that's the case like every two years).

I think Calia is mostly there for Sylvanas and maybe Arthas... also they will craft the story in a way that she takes the role of the Forsaken leader.

What are the chances of us getting more than just 2 herritage sets? (*if* we get any at all)

Devs told us that they want to continue adding heritage quests in x.x.5 patches so... lets see.

[Tiradon]

We are closing in on Heroic Sylvanas, people don't seem like they wanna stick around for Mythic raiding more than a month.

Curious to see how this will go for many guilds this patch.

[Sondrelk]

We are closing in on Heroic Sylvanas, people don't seem like they wanna stick around for Mythic raiding more than a month.

Curious to see how this will go for many guilds this patch.

From what I remember the X.1 and X.2 stretch of patches tend to be the roughest in a given expansion, simply because of how engagement works. You get a large chunk in the beginning that trails off, small spikes each patch launch, and then a larger engagement spike towards teh very end.

It is undoubtable that the time spent between 9.0 and 9.1 has significantly drained the playerbase though. So I imagine that SL is essentially unsavageable in that regard. Starting an expansion in the middle is significantly more daunting than at the beginning or the end, so I imagine that if some players stopped aplying once they are unlikely to restart playing before the final patch at least, and likely not before 10.0 is on the horizon.

[draugril]

There's something unique about Shadowlands, though... I had no idea of where the X.1, X2, or X.3 patches would take us. But instead of that promoting investigation and speculation as it had for expansions past, I simply didn't - and don't - care this time around. X.1 being thoroughly underwhelming and predictable in hindsight certainly didn't help. As far as I can tell, the story is headed in directions that, instead of having any sort of basis in the historical WoW canon, are completely invented in a sentence or two from the current patch. Completely flying by the seat of their pants.

I cannot express how aggressively uninterested I am in the "Sepulcher of the First Ones."

[therumblings]

There's something unique about Shadowlands, though... I had no idea of where the X.1, X2, or X.3 patches would take us. But instead of that promoting investigation and speculation as it had for expansions past, I simply didn't - and don't - care this time around. X.1 being thoroughly underwhelming and predictable in hindsight certainly didn't help. As far as I can tell, the story is headed in directions that, instead of having any sort of basis in the historical WoW canon, are completely invented in a sentence or two from the current patch. Completely flying by the seat of their pants.

I cannot express how aggressively uninterested I am in the "Sepulcher of the First Ones."

I somewhat I agree, I am just interested in what it looks like to see if the First One tech is unique or just more titany shit.

[Sondrelk]

There's something unique about Shadowlands, though... I had no idea of where the X.1, X2, or X.3 patches would take us. But instead of that promoting investigation and speculation as it had for expansions past, I simply didn't - and don't - care this time around. X.1 being thoroughly underwhelming and predictable in hindsight certainly didn't help. As far as I can tell, the story is headed in directions that, instead of having any sort of basis in the historical WoW canon, are completely invented in a sentence or two from the current patch. Completely flying by the seat of their pants.

I cannot express how aggressively uninterested I am in the "Sepulcher of the First Ones."

In times like these I often wonder what I would think of the same expansion systems, except placed in a different expansion story I am more interested in.

Would the covenant system, the domination gem system, the soulbind system and all of the miscallaneous changes and improvements added in SL have worked better if we transplant the story of, say, WoD over it, or BfA?

Would I have been more eager to log on if I was part of the Stormheim covenant, and I was stil progressing through Nighthold? Or would I be just as apathetic to the content being presented?


I guess the real boogeyman for this expansion is Covid, specifically the delays and generally slow pace. We would afterall have likely been eagerly anticipating a 9.2 exiting PTR by now if we had gone by the BfA patch release cycle and assumed no delays of any kind. Not to mention a lively leak cycle in preparation for Blizzcon, so maybe the problem is more SL being doomed from the start because of circumsances outside its control rather than intrinsically tied to its story or similar.

Personally I think the story is just the final layer of apathy on top of a generally shitty situation, but that could be just me. I still stand by each expansion being generally equally shitty at times, and that general boredom gets inflated in the moment whereas it gets forgotten when its regarding a past expansion, and I do think that is just as relevant in this case.
I might be more interested in debating where the story will go if we were still in BfA, but I cannot imagine I would leap back in and do endless M+ just because the systems are less grindy.

[draugril]

A setting all but entirely disconnected from everything that I enjoy about the WarCraft franchise's lore mixed with gameplay systems that are being repackaged a third time in a row led me to my current apathy. It doesn't matter how great Shadowlands' mechanics are if I've already participated in them in two previous expansions. I want new, novel experiences.

I happily played through WoD, even with all its problems, because it gave me new goals to pursue in a setting that I enjoyed, even if those goals nor the setting were of the highest quality. The garrison system was far from perfect, but it was different. The setting was far from perfect, but it was familiar and leaned on the history of the franchise. There was ambition in the design here that we've long since lost, even if modern WoW is quantitatively better.

An interesting setting can make up for lackluster mechanics. Interesting mechanics can make up for a lackluster setting. For me, Shadowlands is lackluster, repetitive mechanics in a completely unfamiliar setting that may as well be another MMO entirely.

It's just so frustrating because I want to enjoy myself. It honestly seems like Blizzard doesn't care about providing inherently enjoyable experiences anymore.

[Kiivar86]

I'm actually pretty interested in wherever we're going, whether its this Zereth Mortis or whatever. Though I suspect my imagination is making things a lot more interesting than they are. That was the case with Korthia. Honestly, for a "city", it sure doesn't look it.

[rrayy]

It's just so frustrating because I want to enjoy myself. It honestly seems like Blizzard doesn't care about providing inherently enjoyable experiences anymore.

So because they don't give you what you want they don't care? They absolutely do care about providing inherently enjoyable experiences. IT not being that for you does not mean they don't care. What you don't find enjoyable, others do. People need to realize they are not the only ones playing the game a and not make statements like this.

[draugril]

So because they don't give you what you want they don't care? They absolutely do care about providing inherently enjoyable experiences. IT not being that for you does not mean they don't care. What you don't find enjoyable, others do. People need to realize they are not the only ones playing the game a and not make statements like this.

To be more specific, while I'm sure the intent to provide an enjoyable experience is in the back of everyone's mind, fluffing up metrics and promoting microtransations is certainly at the forefront of development intent - no matter how good the experience, they're all tainted to manipulate the consumer in this direction or that. This is demonstrable.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I'm actually pretty interested in wherever we're going, whether its this Zereth Mortis or whatever. Though I suspect my imagination is making things a lot more interesting than they are. That was the case with Korthia. Honestly, for a "city", it sure doesn't look it.

All of 9.1 was woefully half-assed, Korthia most of all. You can feel it in almost all aspects (even the raid if you consider that the assets were already made a year ago), a city is a bunch of glorified hovels, the renown system is laughably inflated, which becomes apparent next week (later down the line there is even an upgrade that buffs the anima of Oribos weeklies.. rofl), the final of the part of the campaign was barely more than a recap after having pretty much just hastily tied up lose ends they forgot in 9.0.

I think it shows that at the best of times when Blizzard is ahead their quality can be dodgy, but when they are behind something like this patch happens, despite a 6 month development time.

[Sondrelk]

To be more specific, while I'm sure the intent to provide an enjoyable experience is in the back of everyone's mind, fluffing up metrics and promoting microtransations is certainly at the forefront of development intent - no matter how good the experience, they're all tainted to manipulate the consumer in this direction or that. This is demonstrable.

Conversely many of the same complaints could also be considered positives, with Blizzard creating content aimed at rewarding consumer loyalty and giving reasons to stay engaged even when the reward system would have normally dried up.

Titanforging could be both there to improve engagement metrics, and also give reasons for players to stay engaged in a positive way.
Systems are not always demonstrably swayed to one side of the seller/buyer relationship.