Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[plz delete account]

Drac'thur will eventually be able to play other classes, and other races will eventually be able to be evokers

[shoc]

Drac'thur will eventually be able to play other classes, and other races will eventually be able to be evokers

As long as the visage can be any race, evoker can stay unique to dracthyr

[Santandame]

Why can't a Dragon themed expansion be about Dragon-related threats? You keep trying to throw everything else into the expansion for no reason. Even the Lifelands has no real tie to the expansion but you are insisting it is possible. The Shadowlands raids were not all different because they were all related to the Jailer and Shadowlands.

I've just made a post about how I see the patches going, but I just remembered the news that we'll learn more about the Emerald Dream, so I see the patch content being the following:

10.0 - Primal Dragons
10.1 - Chromatus raid with the Dracthyr zone for max level
10.2 - .2 patches tend to be a bit different and more funky, think Throne of Thunder, Nazjatar etc. I feel like we'll get Emerald Dream here with an attached raid.
10.3 Murozond and a timeways raid, but I'm not sure what the zone could be. Maybe an updated Tanaris or expanded Caverns of Time?

[Malorne the White Stag]

Drac'thur will eventually be able to play other classes, and other races will eventually be able to be evokers

That literally says it's exceedingly unlikely for evokers to be other races. Other classes for dracthyr sound cool though and I like the little tidbit they learn from other races down the line

[rhorle]

Just think for one second about how disgusting that would make Goldshire Inn.

So no source and instead you move the goal posts to something else to prove you are right. Lol. Blizzard has stated in an interview that Drac'thyr can glide like Demon Hunters but can't fly in their form unless they are in Dragon Isles. So you are wrong and no amount of goal post moving will change that you are wrong.

[Super Dickmann]

Ermmmm no, your argument for why sylvanas hadn't betrayed people was that those people had left her cause after she had... betrayed them. Circular logic, and I'm going to stand my ground. Buy the anduin shirt.

Sylvanas had no objection to them following her, hence the ample dark rangers who went with her. They decided to fall on their swords for Calia without Sylvanas's intervention.

[Khaza-R]

I actually think one of the possible zones we might see mid expansion is more of the elemental planes. If the giant magma dudes are the first threat, the Primal dragons probably follow and they are deeply linked to the elements. Could be an opportunity to see more of those places.

Kind of my thoughts. DF seems to very much pick up where BfA left off and there was a whole unexplored arc on how the elemental planes became highly unstable after the events of Legion.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Drac'thur will eventually be able to play other classes, and other races will eventually be able to be evokers

The former is suggested, the latter is potentially the exact opposite of what they were explicitly saying.

[Kiria]

As long as the visage can be any race, evoker can stay unique to dracthyr

Pretty much this, let people go Drakthyr and choose their visage.

[Teriz]

Drac'thur will eventually be able to play other classes, and other races will eventually be able to be evokers

Uh, that literally says no other race will be able to play an Evoker.

I highly doubt you'll see Dracthyr be other classes, but we'll see what happens.

[Nymrohd]

That literally says it's exceedingly unlikely for evokers to be other races. Other classes for dracthyr sound cool though and I like the little tidbit they learn from other races down the line

The thing is, they are already considering letting dracthyr fight in visage form. If they can fight in visage form then the evoker's tie to the unique physiology of the dracthyr (that name is stupid) is already broken.

[rhorle]

Kind of my thoughts. DF seems to very much pick up where BfA left off and there was a whole unexplored arc on how the elemental planes became highly unstable after the events of Legion.

Since elementals are native to Azeroth it would be cool to find out that the Titans actively harmed the world soul be imprisoning them. Part of me still thinks that Azeroth isn't a Titan but a First-One. Since we have an expanded cosmos it would explain why Azeroth has been fought over by so many and why other titan souls like Argus wasn't as big of a deal for the Legion to have corrupted.

[plz delete account]

Sylvanas had no objection to them following her, hence the ample dark rangers who went with her. They decided to fall on their swords for Calia without Sylvanas's intervention.

Literally right after Sylvanas had told them they meant nothing to her and left them to die.

[rhorle]

The thing is, they are already considering letting dracthyr fight in visage form. If they can fight in visage form then the evoker's tie to the unique physiology of the dracthyr (that name is stupid) is already broken.

Not nessacarily. They could easily have it be a "in the moment" transformation. In order to have other races become Evokers they would need to create a lore reason for those races to be first transformed into Dragonkin. You are approaching the Dragon form as if it was the same as a druid form. The druid doesn't become a bear/moonkin/cat/tree. They just take that form. The Drac'thyr can take a humanoid form but do not actually become that form.

[Super Dickmann]

Literally right after Sylvanas had told them they meant nothing to her and left them to die.

She told this to the vast crowd of tards. We know from the very next loyalist quests that the Dark Rangers knew what was up and from Shadows Rising that many dark rangers, belf and night elf alike stuck around. But Delaryn chose to instead join Good Queen Calia and the nu-undead. Sylvanas did nothing wrong, the betrayal was all on the oxygen thieves that are the entire nu-undead race.

[KayRule]

They would. Because they did. The problems you listed won't affect Dracthry because they can't be in their taller form out of combat. It's not a toggle like Worgen.

Dude, what are you fucking talking about. They have said multiple times you can, even comparing it to the Worgen form directly. Why is literally every other post you make on these subjects just blatant lies and misinformation?

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Sylvanas had no objection to them following her, hence the ample dark rangers who went with her. They decided to fall on their swords for Calia without Sylvanas's intervention.

I think the main issue is that WoW has never portrayed Sylvanas in what I consider to be her canonical (as per WarCraft III) and "proper" portrayal—she is, to me, not really a fantastical hero like all her counterparts. In a way, the Sylvanas of WC3 - Cataclysm was absolutely the kind of person that we see in real life very often. She was a revolutionary leader like any you could name in our reality—someone narcissistic, clever, and driven by a personal sense of retributive justice. She desired little more than to achieve short-term ends which happened to align with those of others, granting her the external visage of someone dedicated to the removal of a tyrant above all else. Her narcissism and charisma worked together to create a cult of personality among the Forsaken—she did not seem to deliberately invoke this, but she nevertheless embraced it later down the line. Like any dictator, she saw herself as someone inherently superior to others. She did not, perhaps, think of herself as a perfect specimen, but she certainly had a high opinion of herself and seemed to see the world as revolving around her. This made her a very interesting character.

Sylvanas, to me, never should have been anything like either her BfA or Shadowlands self. She is, in my mind, best exemplified in Cataclysm as the very model of a realistic revolutionary leader. What happened with her there was a fairly earnest portrayal of precisely what happens to revolutionary leaders after they take power. From an abstract, fantastical perspective, she reflects the same tendencies as other, real-life dictators often do—after her retribution is wrought, she learns of the dangers awaiting her should she die. Initially, Sylvanas actively seeks death, but she ends up experiencing reality at full force, just like a dictator does when they realize that their noble causes no longer justify the means they used to begin with. Like a dictatorial revolutionary leader, Sylvanas is horrified by the realization of how much danger she is in, and her paranoia kicks in. Self-preservation becomes the name of the game—society is restructured around her, her preexisting cult of personality amplified to absurd levels. She begins to act no different than the Lich King, and perhaps doesn't even want to see herself as different anymore.

"Do you know the Tsar? I'm like the Tsar" was Stalin's explanation of his role to his mother, which is very reminiscent of Sylvanas' snark to Garrosh. She knows that she is like the Lich King, but no longer cares. She has lost her motivation, the facade of ideology, and the desire to create a better world (even if that better world is centralized around her). Instead, Sylvanas has become more realistic in her goals. Survival is the name of the game, so her actions are driven by paranoia and selfishness. She sets off to follow in the footsteps of her predecessors—like how Stalin reconquered old territories of Tsarist Russia and practically rebuilt the old empire under a red banner, Sylvanas and the Forsaken follow in the footsteps of Arthas to conquer Lordaeron. At the end of the day, this is pretty typical for a political demagogue like Sylvanas, and her arc from WarCraft III - Cataclysm followed that. The mistake that was made in BfA and Shadowlands was giving her too much of a motivation beyond survival—it ultimately ruined the residual profundity of the characters. With her now-muddled motives and her thrust into the spotlight, she could no longer be a proper dictator. She lost her paranoia, a central element of any dictator, and she lost her scheming nature. Originally, the Forsaken's relationship with the Horde post-Cataclysm was that of a collaborationist regime overseas. Like how real-life dictators will often make deals with overseas superpowers to enshrine their legitimacy, Sylvanas had her allies in the Horde protect her because she knew that it would be in their interest. Nobody liked her, but that doesn't mean they could get rid of her. If only she had never retroactively been in cahoots with the Jailer, she'd really be the most realistic leader in World of Warcraft for this reason. She used to be the perfect portrayal of a selfish, power-hungry dictator using a superpower as their money cow.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, what are you fucking talking about. They have said multiple times you can, even comparing it to the Worgen form directly. Why is literally every other post you make on these subjects just blatant lies and misinformation?

I think there's a further sense of irony that their vertical advantage is actually worse than that of normal Drakes if we had them as a playable class.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Interview just confirmed that Murozond will happen in the future. My money is on him being the final boss for sure.

That's what gonna lead to Yrel coming to our time line and setting up 11.0 light vs void.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/warcraf...nos-the-326792

He's definitely not the final boss because he's already dead. Meaning we can't kill him in a big cutscene.

He's probably going to be part of the expansion, but not the final boss.

Also please not Light-Void 11.0. Please not Evil Turalyon & Yrel ever.

- - - Updated - - -

Drac'thur will eventually be able to play other classes, and other races will eventually be able to be evokers
https://i.imgur.com/mcAqCmF.png[/IMG]

11.0 for sure they're gonna open up Dracthyr as other classes, and bill it as a preorder feature.

[Shadochi]

With all the interview and additional info that is coming in I am gaining even more faith that DF system wise is going to be good at least on launch. Hopefully they back it up with a good patch cycle.

Also hype that alpha has been shipped so based on previous cycles we should get it before end of June.

[Super Dickmann]

"Do you know the Tsar? I'm like the Tsar" was Stalin's explanation of his role to his mother, which is very reminiscent of Sylvanas' snark to Garrosh. She knows that she is like the Lich King, but no longer cares. She has lost her motivation, the facade of ideology, and the desire to create a better world (even if that better world is centralized around her). Instead, Sylvanas has become more realistic in her goals.

Chopping mainly for space. Your post is overall interesting and I agree with neither BFA nor Shadowlands capturing what made Sylvanas work, but this reading doesn't really work with the intent of the character, because Sylvanas's journey is one from less to more ideological, not the other way around. She begins with a purely value-oriented premise, aiming to maximize the value of the people she presides over and the one she's allied with to achieve one goal and then cut her losses. The Sylvanas of that period doesn't give two shits about the new world order her minions crow about, the superiority of undeath which she considers a terrible curse and doesn't even fully get what tying herself with the likes of Varimathras entails because she's laser-focused on achieving her aim of killing Arthas by any means possible. Putress's rebellion is the rebellion of someone who took the BS she only peddled for momentary gain like their eventual dominion and how there should be death to the living at face value, things the Sylvanas of the time never cared about and only used to drive those in her sway towards her objective. None of these things matter to her as she intends to die after she gets it done. It's only after she dies and sees that hell's waiting for her that she begins to take all these things seriously and work towards the establishment of a real state, complete with positive self-image, reproduction and the preservation and advancement of the extant population, and begins to take on a perspective geared towards long-term existence.

Edge of Night and Cataclysm is Sylvanas's transition from a function-oriented person to someone who must on pain of a fate worse than death actually lead a society and does so to their benefit because it's in her benefit and for the Forsaken it's the transition from people wrapped in self-pity and monomania towards transhumanism and a merging of their living and undead identities towards a project that ups their self-esteem and power but also makes them magnitudes more dangerous to their neighbours. The association of the Horde to the Forsaken you describe is accurate and post-Mists should have been the point where the tail starts wagging the dog as Sylvanas and the Forsaken who've suffered minimal losses by that point while all other races collapsed in the civil war become the de facto power behind a throne occupied by the leader of the by far weakest Horde race. BFA obviously didn't go that route and Shadowlands, while ultimately making the character half-coherent through the book lacks the interest in exploring the above by focusing on Sylvanas's psychodrama at the expense of her as a political leader.