Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Shadochi]

Faction war seems very unlikely at this point, even more so with Cross faction stuff slowly coming into the game.



Yeah I feel like Bolvar was underused in SL but that might of not been the case originally.

Even worse thing regarding bolvar, they removed one of the few launch questlines he had FROM LIVE (not during testing) (saving peeps from torghast)

[Varx]

He's definitely not the final boss because he's already dead. Meaning we can't kill him in a big cutscene.

He's probably going to be part of the expansion, but not the final boss.

Also please not Light-Void 11.0. Please not Evil Turalyon & Yrel ever.

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11.0 for sure they're gonna open up Dracthyr as other classes, and bill it as a preorder feature.

Nozdormu isn't dead and he's going to turn into MU Murozond. Read the interview I linked.

Yrel is definitely being groomed to be a light aligned antagonist given the maghar recruitment scenario and Murozond/Nozdormu is the only being capable of bringing her to us.

Why? I guess we'll find out.

[rhorle]

tl;dr There are lots and lots of recent hints that the Dragons are associated with Life, meaning this expansion may very well be "Lifelands" even if we don't go into the realm of life like we did with Shadowlands.

Everything you are listing is conjecture. Origins of the Emerald dream doesn't mean lifelands. Remember it was created by Freya according to existing lore. All you are doing is taking your head cannon and acting as if it confirms things without a doubt. We also know that the power level of the Aspects was the same as the Primalists so Elune is not necessary at all for Aspects to regain some power.

[huth]

A) Dragons come from elementals. Currently the elementals are MISSING from the Chronicles magic chart, but Spirit is associated with Life: and Spirit is what causes Elementals to either go crazy (lots of it) or act normally (little to none of it). It's very likely now that Elementals are being lumped in with Life, and the first raid of Dragonflight is elemental themed with super elemental drakes.

What are you talking about? The Elements are part of the chart, both the Chronicle as well Grimoire one. They're in the inner circle together with Azeroth.

Also, all Aspects are tied to the Arcane due to being empowered by the Titans.

[rhorle]

Nozdormu isn't dead and he's going to turn into MU Murozond. Read the interview I linked.

We killed Murozond in the lore. He can still appear because of time travel but we can't kill him if he shows up. We would merely be defeating him. The link you provided only stats that the bronze flight is having trouble seeing the timeways and Murozond is "born" at some point.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Nozdormu isn't dead and he's going to turn into MU Murozond. Read the interview I linked.

Yrel is definitely being groomed to be a light aligned antagonist given the maghar recruitment scenario and Murozond/Nozdormu is the only being capable of bringing her to us.

Why? I guess we'll find out.

I didn't mean Nozdormu. I mean Murozond.

Go run End Time. We killed him there.

Meaning we can't kill him in Dragonflight in a big fancy cutscene, he has to survive so we can kill him there.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I didn't mean Nozdormu. I mean Murozond.

Go run End Time. We killed him there.

Meaning we can't kill him in Dragonflight in a big fancy cutscene, he has to survive so we can kill him there.

Admittedly, that was in one of presumably several timelines and time doesn't really work the same way as it does for us for people like Murozond. It's not difficult to asspull a resurrection for somebody who doesn't really do chronology.

[Magenugget]

I really can't believe the alpha is coming soon. I mean both the new talent and profession systems and the new class will all take a ton of work and they had very little to show for the presentation. On the other hand this time they don't have to balance 400 different abilities like with Shadowlands so maybe they can actually push for a Christmas release. I just hope they don't waste too much time on the dragon things.

[Varx]

I didn't mean Nozdormu. I mean Murozond.

Go run End Time. We killed him there.

Meaning we can't kill him in Dragonflight in a big fancy cutscene, he has to survive so we can kill him there.

Nozzy is murozond...

When our nozzy completes the circle and turns into muro we're gonna have to deal with it again. It's heavily implied in the interview

[huth]

Admittedly, that was in one of presumably several timelines and time doesn't really work the same way as it does for us for people like Murozond. It's not difficult to asspull a resurrection for somebody who doesn't really do chronology.

That it doesn't work the same is the reason he cannot die, though. Nozdormu is temporally unique, there's only one of him across all timelines. That was part of Aman'thul's gift. And it seems they remember that part.

[Varx]

We killed Murozond in the lore. He can still appear because of time travel but we can't kill him if he shows up. We would merely be defeating him. The link you provided only stats that the bronze flight is having trouble seeing the timeways and Murozond is "born" at some point.

Right and we'll have to take care of he yet again to complete the circle.

Perhaps the fight will have the end time fight playing in the background or something.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I really can't believe the alpha is coming soon. I mean both the new talent and profession systems and the new class will all take a ton of work and they had very little to show for the presentation. On the other hand this time they don't have to balance 400 different abilities like with Shadowlands so maybe they can actually push for a Christmas release. I just hope they don't waste too much time on the dragon things.

They had little to show but they did have some to show.

It'll start limited like alphas always do, probably only the first zone and maybe not even all classes fully functional. Once everything is implemented that's usually when it jumps from Alpha to Beta.

[Sharby]

Does anyone have high res images of the Alexstraza promo art? I keep finding thumbnails.

[rhorle]

Admittedly, that was in one of presumably several timelines and time doesn't really work the same way as it does for us for people like Murozond. It's not difficult to asspull a resurrection for somebody who doesn't really do chronology.

It was stated at the time that Murozond existed outside of time and thus implied any death would be final. Even Nozdormu stated it was his death and his future self will cause no more trouble. It will be a retcon to explain it away as time travel shenanigans.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

It was stated at the time that Murozond existed outside of time and thus implied any death would be final. Even Nozdormu stated it was his death and his future self will cause no more trouble. It will be a retcon to explain it away as time travel shenanigans.

Fair enough. I'd still say we could get plenty out of him, though.

[Jodmos]

Does anyone have high res images of the Alexstraza promo art? I keep finding thumbnails.

Press Kit site - it's only about 122 MB

https://blizzard.gamespress.com/Worl...nflight-Reveal

[rhorle]

Fair enough. I'd still say we could get plenty out of him, though.

For sure but it cheapens it slightly to know that he isn't defeated for good. What I hope happens is a new leader for the infinite appears and we just witness the fall of Nozdormu. The infinite is too good of bad guy for anything to write off completely and Blizzard has hinted that the different types of dragons will all be involved in the future (or fight against us).

[Nymrohd]

I think that if it were up to me, Battle for Azeroth would've followed two general plotlines—one is the plotline of the objectors, one is the plotline of the contributors. Some players may side more with Magni, choosing to try to prevent the war from happening at all. Conversely, others may try to chug the war along, weaponizing Azerite in a short-sighted bid at world domination. In my mind, Battle for Azeroth never should've been a black-and-white story of good vs. evil—it should've been one where both factions were in the wrong. A darker, more realistic plot in which Azerite really was the equivalent to plutonium, and Azeroth itself is endangered by the reckless use of her blood to create superweaopns. Azerite in my version of BfA would've been disastrous in use, only rarely demonstrated but always devastating—every major event, like the Burning of Teldrassil, would've involved Azerite being used in some way, and the consequences would always shock both factions. Even the perpetrators of Teldrassil would not entirely expect what would happen. Perhaps, initially, the plan would be to smoke out the Night Elves with firebombings—then, against all expectations, Teldrassil goes up like dynamite when the bombardment starts incorporating Azerite. MAD takes place on Azeroth, and the world suffers for it. Much of it is scarred, and the Third Death really starts to take place. Perhaps the world is not as thoroughly-shattered as in the Cataclysm or Sundering, but it is certainly a disastrous effect. Much of Azeroth would be drawn into war, morality would be muddled, and selfishness would take center-stage.

The war would become more about deescalation, doing as much as possible to extend influence without engagement. The plots of Zandalar and Kul Tiras would follow that theme, being based on the real-life power plays of the Cold War. After Teldrassil, I envision things cooling down to harsh tensions, and they only flare up again in the patches, reaching their boiling point in 8.3 where the war finally reaches its head. Whether or not we'd fight the Old Gods to try to end the war or face an actual confrontation, I don't know, but it would follow that general theme.

As for Shadowlands, I think Bolvar would make a fine Khadgar—if he were still the Lich King. Having a morally-dubious ally leading us through the Shadowalnds would be very interesting. I'd love to see something like that happen. It would be a Death Knight's dream, and it would show us precisely how he is different from – yet still similar to – the other Lich Kings. It would not be so much the end of the Lich King, but Bolvar finally getting to shine and enshrining himself as the true successor to Arthas.

The question really is, what is the narrative goal of the expansion. BfA managed the following. It removed the Warchief role, it showed Azshara as a free agent, it wrapped up the N'zoth story and it introduced the Shadowlands story. Was a faction truce also a narrative goal? I am not sure. Blizzard resisted cross faction gameplay for PvE for years after the problem had been glaringly obvious and I am unsure that 9.2.5 will have enough of an effect (especially without cross-faction guilds).

I think the only goal that was achieved somewhat well was Azshara. The short was "magnificent", her VA did her justice throughout Nazjatar, her presence in Nyalotha was perfect. Really only thing that went wrong for her was how bad her raid encounter was.
Everything else went like crap. Shadowlands story was telegraphed but to this day if you don't read the novel the actual story, the character motivations are mostly opaque. Oh they are implied and people largely gathered what was happening but they are not really presented at any point with the required clarity.
The Warchief issue? I'm of two minds on whether the Horde is better without a Warchief. On one hand, the Horde now includes several nations with significant power. The oath was in the past undertaken out of loyalty to Thrall's Horde or out of desperation. Yet the Highmountain joined out of friendship to their own race, the Nightborne joined out of I guess, curiosity? and the Zandalari under Talan'ji definitely don't seem willing to be subservient. Which means that if they wanted to get rid of the Warchief it could have been done through politics, not by the forceful removal of yet another Warchief. On the other hand it used to be part of the identity of the Horde but that has been diluted so much; from a bunch of strugglers they now include no less than three ancient civilizations that are older than the humans and dwarves who were their main opponents.

As for the truce, we all know that's bullshit. There was nothing satisfactory about how the war ended. Alliance players had to go through the Burning and Brennadam and the devs chose to make that story so how that could ever lead to a truce is beyond me.

What I'd have done is use N'zoth. It would have been N'zoth who caused the war by having traitors in both factions. have both factions commit war crimes but also make those war crimes work towards faction pride instead of kick the dog moments. Have the Alliance kill Horde soldiers, not set fire to random fox furries in a desert in the middle of nowhere. Have the Horde strike a military target in Kul Tiras with the Plague or an Arcane Bomb v2, not a town with civilians with parents impaled in front of their children. Don't make the war feel so one sided and don't make the factions so stupid. The Horde loses constantly and then suddenly fully reverses in a single patch because of Azshara? Alliance destroys the entire Zandalari fleet yet then goes to murder Rastakhan to significant danger (and pointless war crimes) even though the military goal was achieved?
Then when N'zoth is released make him an actual threat that forces the factions to work together or face extinction. You can go with sheer pragmatism by having him assault the factions directly and almost win, using Wrathion and Magni to negotiate a truce. Or maybe go for feeling and have some tragedy; have Horde assault an alliance location only to find the K'thir doing actually "kick the dog" things to the civilians and then having the Horde commander go "Screw it, we are saving the civilians" with a similar scenario on the other side. Make the truce feel organic.

[rainhard]

About the Murozond thing, they could just make it so that future and past us help in his defeat in an epic raid fight where we persue him in many different places until ending up in end times again with our former selves killing him there again.

[JDBlou]

I didn't mean Nozdormu. I mean Murozond.

Go run End Time. We killed him there.

Meaning we can't kill him in Dragonflight in a big fancy cutscene, he has to survive so we can kill him there.

By defeating Deathwing, that timeline resulting in a Murozond was closed off, but it's still an eventuality by predestination. We'll see Murozond by end of expansion.

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For sure but it cheapens it slightly to know that he isn't defeated for good. What I hope happens is a new leader for the infinite appears and we just witness the fall of Nozdormu. The infinite is too good of bad guy for anything to write off completely and Blizzard has hinted that the different types of dragons will all be involved in the future (or fight against us).

Nozdormu says: At last it has come to pass. The moment of my demise. The loop is closed. My future self will cause no more harm.
Nozdormu says: Still, in time, I will... fall to madness. And you, heroes... will vanquish me. The cycle will repeat. So it goes.

It's just a matter of time. The when or where isn't set.