Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Veluren]

Somehow I find it difficult to imagine given you are supposed to turn into the visage, rather than being a Gilnean human transforming into a Worgen.

However all i hear are more confirmations that seem to place the Dragon form as the combat transformation and the Visage form as the "real" one, so who knows.

I feel like this keeps showing and keeps being really confusing and also blatantly untrue. They've already said Dracthyr will have a lesser version of the new momentum flying, they couldn't do that if they were forced into Visage form out of combat

[Sondrelk]

I feel like this keeps showing and keeps being really confusing and also blatantly untrue. They've already said Dracthyr will have a lesser version of the new momentum flying, they couldn't do that if they were forced into Visage form out of combat

Not that visage form is forced when you are out of combat, but that the developers will treat visage form as the expected default and then skimp out on making the actual Dragon form fully customizable.

The visage form is already kinda pointless when you are supposed to be playing a full Dragon, and the only reason I can think for why it has been added is to justify a full Evoker cosmetic set when the Dragon form is seemingly unable to wear a full set.

[Veluren]

Not that visage form is forced when you are out of combat, but that the developers will treat visage form as the expected default and then skimp out on making the actual Dragon form fully customizable.

The visage form is already kinda pointless when you are supposed to be playing a full Dragon, and the only reason I can think for why it has been added is to justify a full Evoker cosmetic set when the Dragon form is seemingly unable to wear a full set.

Ohh okay, I misread that because I've been seeing that misinfo a lot, yeah that's fair

[KainneAbsolute]

We are fighting against Primal Incarnate Dragons...so is it correct to say that we will fight against 4 deathwings?

Under the old god's corruption, Deathwing's body was out of control, more elemental. Now we have Primal Incarnates embrace these elemental features and they seem under control over those elemental bodies.

Considering the Old Gods like to use elementals and flesh beings to do their bidding, I would be surprised if these Primal Incarnates don't have any relationship with the Old Gods.

On the other hand, if they have any relationship with the Old Gods, Blizzard is introducing the biggest plot hole. The main reason is the Old Gods had the perfect weapon to conquer all Azeroth, 4 elemental dragons with full power. The Watchers and Aspects weren't able to defeat them, only trap them. I speculate if this happens, then Galakrond mutations were a consequence of the Old God's manipulations.

I hope the design of these dragons is extremely cool.

[Nymrohd]

We are fighting against Primal Incarnate Dragons...so is it correct to say that we will fight against 4 deathwings?

Under the old god's corruption, Deathwing's body was out of control, more elemental. Now we have Primal Incarnates embrace these elemental features and they seem under control over those elemental bodies.

Considering the Old Gods like to use elementals and flesh beings to do their bidding, I would be surprised if these Primal Incarnates don't have any relationship with the Old Gods.

On the other hand, if they have any relationship with the Old Gods, Blizzard is introducing the biggest plot hole. The main reason is the Old Gods had the perfect weapon to conquer all Azeroth, 4 elemental dragons with full power. The Watchers and Aspects weren't able to defeat them, only trap them. I speculate if this happens, then Galakrond mutations were a consequence of the Old God's manipulations.

I hope the design of these dragons is extremely cool.

We've been told the 4 primal dragons are all about as strong as the Aspects yet the Aspects have been weakened significantly over time.

[KayRule]

The right things to do:
- Get rid of renown, except for story progression probably
- Implement back valor as a currency to buy both gear and upgrades, while you get valor points from world quests and matchmade dungeons. The honor system worked well, this would be an adaption to pve.
- Add a solo queue for mythic+
- Make time runs in mythic+ optional (probably only available outside of the solo queue)

Why? Renown is a vastly superior system than Reputation, and the way it's being in Dragonflight is literally to supplant the old Reputation system.

Valor absolutely needs to come back.

[Grimbold21]

Managed to briefly divert the threar away from the race talk yday, but it quickly returned to it and continues today


Yep..if that leak about Tuskar AR coming with pre-orders were/is true, then these suckers are definitely pre ordering on masse.

No matter how roughly you fuck us, you only have to give us a nice box of chocolates later, Blizzard.

[KayRule]

Managed to briefly divert the threar away from the race talk yday, but it quickly returned to it and continues today


Yep..if that leak about Tuskar AR coming with pre-orders were/is true, then these suckers are definitely pre ordering on masse.

No matter how roughly you fuck us, you only have to give us a nice box of chocolates later, Blizzard.

What "leak"? People have speculated Tuskar cus of a tweet by the official WoW twitter and the fact they use Pandaren rigs now. I'm getting really tired of this thread constantly just taking speculation or wishlists and turning them into "leaks".

It's bad enough some rando on 4chan piggybacking off of Scaleface leaks is now having everyone believing in content that doesn't exist as well.

[Sondrelk]

Well, for what outside of story progression should it return? Also as you agree that ..



?

Story progression. Cosmetic rewards. Zone upgrades. Buyable gear. Etc.

Basically all the stuff covenant renown gave you, sans the soulbind tree.

[Nymrohd]

Why? Renown is a vastly superior system than Reputation, and the way it's being in Dragonflight is literally to supplant the old Reputation system.

Valor absolutely needs to come back.

I think that crafting as they described it can take over for Valor. What I would like is for the Vault to get even more options. Originally at Blizzcon they said that Torghast would also let you unlock Vault Gear. Imo they should find a way to get Vault gear from doing things in the world. This would add a Valor-like weekly activity for all characters without forcing instanced content. If LFR can grant options from the Vault, so should emissaries or non-rated pvp.

[Nymrohd]

Well, if you got valor points from world quests and matchmade dungeons, you would not need buyable gear from renown. Well, that is except you want to time gate it.

And my impression was, time gating should not be used anymore. Probably except for story progress. Renowns big disadvantage was you literally had to wait a week before you could progress, while people who returned a year later could do that all at once. From that point of view, renown simply was a bad system. I guess the old reputation system we had in cataclysm, where effort decided over how fast you progressed was way better, except those tabards probably.

And as someone who enjoys the story in RPGs (who knew!) I'd say I'm ok with timegating rewards, but stop timegating the story. If you do Zereth Mortis today, it's like doing a normal questing zone; you get to travel around the zone and see most of its story with side quests for extra. Timegate it and that enjoyment is largely lost; you only get snippets. It can work if you lock it behind something you can grind; it means I can work towards the next part of the story which is something I would do with Nightfallen, hunting for every treasure and every bit of mana to open things faster.

[Sondrelk]

Well, if you got valor points from world quests and matchmade dungeons, you would not need buyable gear from renown. Well, that is except you want to time gate it.

And my impression was, time gating should not be used anymore. Probably except for story progress. Renowns big disadvantage was you literally had to wait a week before you could progress, while people who returned a year later could do that all at once. From that point of view, renown simply was a bad system. I guess the old reputation system we had in cataclysm, where effort decided over how fast you progressed was way better, except those tabards probably.

Players should be able to pace their progress. Means, you could play full days, and would take a break for days then, as example. That is way more natural for casual gamers than playing every day for 10 minutes.

The timegating aspect of renown is the entire point though, especially with the seeming changes coming to it in Dragonflight.

Unless you have a literal infinite grind like the old TBC reps and such the only way to grind rep is to wait for timegates quests and such. And in this regard Renown is infinitely better as it is far more deterministic, and additionally doesn't have as many hurdles to jump through for players that join later.

Your mistake here is assuming that making the content slightly easier as the expansion goes is a fault, and not the intended effect.

- - - Updated - - -

And as someone who enjoys the story in RPGs (who knew!) I'd say I'm ok with timegating rewards, but stop timegating the story. If you do Zereth Mortis today, it's like doing a normal questing zone; you get to travel around the zone and see most of its story with side quests for extra. Timegate it and that enjoyment is largely lost; you only get snippets. It can work if you lock it behind something you can grind; it means I can work towards the next part of the story which is something I would do with Nightfallen, hunting for every treasure and every bit of mana to open things faster.

I have to disagree. So long as the questing is actually substantial on a weekly basis i quite enjoy having something to look forward to each weekly reset, rather than being done in a week or two, and then not really having much at all to do later.

Just ensure that the gating is applied across the board like it is currently with the ZM questlines so I don't have to wait as long on alts and I am good.

[Nymrohd]

I have to disagree. So long as the questing is actually substantial on a weekly basis i quite enjoy having something to look forward to each weekly reset, rather than being done in a week or two, and then not really having much at all to do later.

Just ensure that the gating is applied across the board like it is currently with the ZM questlines so I don't have to wait as long on alts and I am good.

See I don't get that. I HAVE things to do later. Other games. I'll never understand this need to pace. As a millenial, nothing has been better in entertainment for me than the fact that nowadays I never have to wait for next week to see a TV series; it's out and I can binge it when I have time. Let me do things at my own pace.
If you need to pace the rewards for gameplay reasons, do that. Don't tangle up the story.

[Sondrelk]

But why should players play from start then, if they simply could wait until the final patch to play all formerly time gated content on a weekend?

The system is broken, and heavily. If you based it on effort, and would add higher rewards to new zones, you still could have a catchup mechanism without removing all effort needed from older content.

Also, the pace of renown, a small daily effort, is simply bad design considering many players play very differently. Means, some play two days at weekend, and no days in between, some play a few hours all 3-4 days-. Some play in two weeks. A diverse playerbase like that can only be based on effort rather than minimum effort as it is the case now.

They play from the start because they enjoy it.
If all you want is to make it easy and painless then why not wait until the content is an expansion old or more? You can get people to boost your through content getting mythic tier gear effortlessly, and you don't even have to pay for the expansion to boot.

[Nymrohd]

They play from the start because they enjoy it.
If all you want is to make it easy and painless then why not wait until the content is an expansion old or more? You can get people to boost your through content getting mythic tier gear effortlessly, and you don't even have to pay for the expansion to boot.

I mean, that's effectively what many do with Alts. They wait for the inevitable QoL changes and for the timegating to be down and then do the alts.

[Nymrohd]

Well, so why not have it effort based rather than time gates? If you play all of the region in a few days, you should get the storys end. And probably not in a raid only.

Yeah, most other MMORPGs do not lock the finale of each story in a raid. And yeah there is LFR but if we want to talk pointless timegating then yeah, LFR is the probably the most timegated content in game.

[Sondrelk]

See I don't get that. I HAVE things to do later. Other games. I'll never understand this need to pace. As a millenial, nothing has been better in entertainment for me than the fact that nowadays I never have to wait for next week to see a TV series; it's out and I can binge it when I have time. Let me do things at my own pace.
If you need to pace the rewards for gameplay reasons, do that. Don't tangle up the story.

This just sounds like you want it both ways though. You want everything, and you want it now.
And yes, Netflix did some great things with releasing an entire season all at once. But videogames are an interactive medium.

Som ong as the content becomes faster available over time i don't see how this is an issue unless you have a specific schedule of only having extra time off the first week or two of a new patch, otherwise why not just play it all later when it's fully released.

And while it's definitely true that this could just be me not having the self control to pace myself with WoW, I do very much appreciate how it parses out its content over time so as to make the parch less of a drag layer on.

[Raetary]

Renown won't have any ties to player power, if there will be a catch up mechanism put in place it'd be 'get 1-2 extra renown lvl per source' instead of instant catch up.

[Sondrelk]

They enjoy to have to wait for the next story snippet or to get a new valor cap in a week? They enjoy playing 15 minutes on a sunday while they could invest way more playtime? While they can't within the week?

I doubt that. No, that system has nothing to do with player agency, rather than making players sub for longer, which does simply not work, as they could unsub and do all gameplay at the end of an expac.

There is no working system that stretches content beyond its really play value. The only thing that fixes that is permanent content updates. Best every month.



Which is another bad development. Boosting simply is epidemic and should be against the TOS. But lets continue to talk about progression pace rather than that again.

Why does it matter if you play the content when it's new and shiny, or if you play it three months later when everything has been made easier for alts?

Again, just don't sub until the last patch of the expansion, then play through it at your own pace, making transmog rubs of the deprecated raids to get help doing the raids in the correct order.

I honestly don't really see the issue with content being made to stretch longer when it's just come out. Everyone knows we will be waiting several months for new content after it, so why not just take it slow? If you don't like timegating just wait until they are gone before buying a sub.

[micwini]

Well, the aspects are already here ... Why would the sky be red/blue/green ?



And why does the see suddenly turn to blue ?

My speculation is that the rebirth of the new night elf tree triggers this. Same type of blue from Ardenweald and you see some flowers on the ground glowing in the next scene when the stone man starts walking.