Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Syegfryed]

Precicely this.

They don't get full extent of Dragonriding mechanics, because then they would ignore the dragon mount and all of its customization and content.

And since Dragonriding is not regular flying (floating in place without regards to physics and moving at static speed), they can't fly outside of Dragon Isles, just glide.

This is bonkers. Even druids can fly with their druid forms, and this joke of a race can't.

[SunspotAnims]

Dragon form can't fly. On Dragon Isles it has access to basic version of Dragonriding, elsewhere it is just a glider like DH wings.

This isn't necessarily true. The wording on the MMOChamp recap describes it this way but the actual interview states otherwise.

Basically, Dracthyr can use base-level dragonriding mechanics everywhere (not just Dragon Isles), but aren't able to upgrade it as with actual dragonriding, and base-level dragonriding is described as DH gliding plus the ability to gain some height and momentum.

[Nebron]

It also hasn't been stated that Azeroth is waking up, thats speculation to.

Well, I should rather say 'Azeroth is healing', or the process of her renewal has begun, which is literally stated in the cinematic.

[Nymrohd]

This is bonkers. Even druids can fly with their druid forms, and this joke of a race can't.

Are you comparing class utility with racials? Really?

[Alexjimithing]

It would not fall apart if the setting would support it. And that is what i talk about. The challenge would be simply different. And your death would never cost a wipe but simply your loot. Decide if you want loot. If you want loot, play as good as possible.

Then what you're talking about isn't even a raid, it's a fundamentally different type of game mode with entirely different encounters that as far as I'm aware doesn't exist in -any- MMO. Like, this would exist alongside LFR, it wouldn't be able to replace it because it's an entirely different type of game mode than completing the end game raids at an easier difficulty.

You also have tremendous balancing/class issues. If the encounter was winnable with only one person left why would anyone play anything but tank? What purpose do healers serve? What if someone dies because the healer failed- why would the healer get credit for completion but not the person they failed to heal?

'play as good as possible' is a meaningless statement when each player has clearly defined roles. A tank/healer/DPS could 'play as good as possible' but still enter a fail state because their spec kit is not able to heal, or hold aggro, or tank damage, or whatever else.

It sounds like you just want to play Elden Ring.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Well, I should rather say 'Azeroth is healing', or the process of her renewal has begun, which is literally stated in the cinematic.

Doesn't mean she is waking up though, its an assumption. Anything that big, Blizzard would outright say it.

[Nymrohd]

This isn't necessarily true. The wording on the MMOChamp recap describes it this way but the actual interview states otherwise.

Basically, Dracthyr can use base-level dragonriding mechanics everywhere (not just Dragon Isles), but aren't able to upgrade it as with actual dragonriding, and base-level dragonriding is described as DH gliding plus the ability to gain some height and momentum.

I thought the idea is you can get a bit of height with starting momentum and if you dive to build up momentum and pull back up you can reach higher spots? Though yeah, no one probably knows how the skill advances.

[huth]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Which doesn't apply here because your lack of actual understanding is directly relevant to the argument. So yeah, not ad hominem.

[Raetary]

Dracthyr will have access to the base mechanics of Dragon Riding.

So they can glide and gain elevation, and perhaps even dive.

[rhorle]

If you die in a bossfight in a mythic+ solo queue setting, you would not receive any reward. It would be up to you to master the personal challenges, while a healer would be supportive but could not save your ass, and a tank would have his personal challenge, as long we want to keep the holy trinity.

How will the group still succeed if they no longer have the dps to do the fight? It is group play for a reason because the entire group needs the group to succeed. You are talking about making changes to the core combat system of WoW which is far and beyond match making. If a tank can kill a boss by themselves then there is no group challenge. It is no longer M+.

Premade or match making doesn't change anything about what you are proposing. If you don't want to be engaged as a group then don't do group play. It is that simple. Random or pre-made doesn't change that fact.

[Syegfryed]

Are you comparing class utility with racials? Really?

Yes, the race is dragons with big ass wings, they should fly.

Especially when you realize this is a class sold as race, so, just like druids, they should fly as well.

And no, i don't see nothing wrong with they having a version of worgens running wild but with flying instead.

[SunspotAnims]

I thought the idea is you can get a bit of height with starting momentum and if you dive to build up momentum and pull back up you can reach higher spots? Though yeah, no one probably knows how the skill advances.

On the base level, yeah that seems to be how dragonriding works and what Dracthyr will likely be able to do innately. What I mean is that without upgrades you probably won't be able to gain as much height or speed nor would you be able to do some momentum-boosting abilities like the barrel roll that's been shown off in some gameplay.

[rhorle]

The content would scale. The healer dies or tank dies? The mobs deal less damage. The players that are still alive would have to avoid all puddles of oozes and exploding gnomes. If they did, they would succeed. If you die, you are responsible. Noone else. That would be a setting that would work with challenging gameplay in matchmade groups. If you play like an ass, you will receive shit. Simple solution.

Why have group play if it is individual encounters that don't rely on other group members? Why not just have it be solo with out the group?

No, it would be solo queue mythic+. A new game mode for solo players who queue up with a random group. Where players do not know each other. Where everyone focused on his own doing. And cannot know how the others would work. The best solution is simply to utilize that settings in its gameplay.

If you are playing in a group you are no longer a solo player.

[Alexjimithing]

Have you ever played Lost Ark? As there are no dedicated healers and only limited tanks it is mostly about personal challenges. And yes, it is a different mode, in this case it would be a solo queue for dungeons and raids, and yes, it would need dedicated gameplay to be fun. The mistake the developers made was they simply took gameplay from premade groups and adapted it to matchmade groups, whichs result was watering it down until the gameplay was not engaging anymore. The solution to this simply is to add gameplay that fits to the setting.

I don’t believe you understand the gravity of the changes required for this type of game mode. It would be -entirely different encounters- than what are in dungeons and raids. It would not replace LFG or LFR in any way shape or form- the way classes work and specs work wouldn’t allow it.

Lost Ark still has choreography/raid wiping mechanics that one person can fuck up. The game mode you’re suggesting exists, it’s called ‘play a single player game’.

[rhorle]

Because group play still is what a MMORPG should be about, right? Even if it was matchmaking. And considering that matchmaking is the most successfull tool to build groups ever, it even was worth the effort.

Then let it be group play. You can't make it 100% solo play with others and still target that aspect of an MMORPG. Lol.

[Makorus]

Because group play still is what a MMORPG should be about, right? Even if it was matchmaking. And considering that matchmaking is the most successfull tool to build groups ever, it even was worth the effort.



Solo queue for matchmade group content. Whichs group dynamics are completely different to what premade groups play. Because of that it needs dedicated design.

But it's not really group play if the presence of other players is entirely irrelevant.

[Alexjimithing]

Very rarely, and no, i talk about matchmade group play, not solo gameplay. I talk about a solo queue, a matchmaking system in pve, which groups together foreigners rather than people who play like a team. In that setting applying premade group gameplay simply is stupid. Blizzard should add gameplay that fits to the group setting.

If your success depends entirely upon you and what everyone else does doesn’t matter to your success state that is solo play, not group play. Your idea simply does not work in an MMO with class and spec based player abilities. It is unfeasible to such a degree that what you’re asking for is for Blizzard to basically launch an entirely new game within WoW with entirely new classes/specs/abilities/balancing maintained alongside the normal game.

Proselytize all you want but there’s a reason this game mode has not, and will not, ever exist in an MMO.

[rhorle]

But it is group play.

It isn't group play if each encounter is an individual challenge that scales down/up based on who is present. Not to mention there is no incentive to work together as a group because your rewards are dependent on only you beating the encounter. A healer won't heal you. They will conserve their mana/cooldowns to ensure they survive to get their
reward.

Just because it happens in a group doesn't mean it is group play. You also have no proof that your views align with the majority of players. Stop using made up things to prop up your argument when you can't support it on its own merit.

- - - Updated - - -

No, it is not. A healer could support. A tank could make you kite less.

Why would they? Their reward is not dependent on you surviving. You kiting a mob means it isn't attacking them and they aren't at risk. Why would they take damage just to save you don't matter to their success?

[Alexjimithing]

Massive Exaggeration. No, it is simply just another game mode. You simply could take the existing classes and cater the matchmade content to them. Sure, boss fights would be different but beside that the classes simply could stay the same.

And once again, we talk about millions of possible players who play matchmaking, and not about another mythic raid mode.



It should. As that MMO adresses mainly matchmade group players.

You can’t balance a boss in such a way that is is equitably soloable by both an ass rogue and h priest. That’s not how classes nor bosses in WoW work. Again, you’re asking for a new game period

Additionally, the mode you’re advocating for would be significantly more difficult. If these players wanted harder encounters they would play them- they don’t. Not having LFR for normal/heroic/mythic is not what’s causing the friction that prevents players like me from playing those difficulties. It’s the time they take and the preparation thereof that does.

You’re advocating for a more difficult matchmaking scenario which, lmao if you think that’s what a majority of players in any MMO are looking for.

[Ersula]

This is why I hate Blizzard has become more guarded with datamining & not putting stuff up until its 100% done: Instead of spending pages arguing about conclusions we've jumped to we have pages of arguing about literally nothing.