1. #54141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    4 Zones is still less than 5 though. No matter how you spin it. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Considering the fact this is the least amount of zones, we've ever received in an expansion.

    By all means, I do enjoy people who haven't even seen the zones arguing from that position of the scale of them for the Marketing Department as if anything trustworthy can be ascertained from this expansion so far. (Hint: 3 Major Patches doko?)
    They literally said Dragon Isles are bigger than Northend. No matter how you spin it.

    Now let's wait to Alpha and check if it's truth or not, you don't have to trust their words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Makes you wonder what? Does zone count matter if the zones are the size of 8 smaller ones? Northrend had 10 zones. One was PvP and one was barely used (Crystal Song). They have said that the Dragon Isles is similar to Northrend in size so does it the individual number matter?
    Honestly, they've been on a steady reduction of content and shipping less and less product to the consumer. Soo, I don't really believe much in the 4 Zones identity nor that the sizes will outshine the concept of more zones than a zone with several biomes and paletes in 4 megazones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonsworn 4 Lyfe View Post
    Ok let’s assume each new zone is larger than the ones in SL
    Then they would need less content so fewer quests and treasures/rares
    We don’t know if there are less

    You have a medium pepperoni pizza and a small pepperoni pizza
    You can’t deny the size difference even if the small pizza has one more slice
    Correct, but there's such a lack of knowledge on how they are going to fill the game with content now that they are free from the shackles of Borrowed Power and Build Around Systems and thats' what will be the most curious about these zones with what they will be filled with and whether that is significant enough to be good enough for endgame.

    In many ways it depends on a lot of factors. Obviously I think more Zones is better than less zones solely because I think Megazones aren't going to be populated with anything interesting.

    There's not going to be normal reputation grinds like we had in TBC in which the zone had reputation hubs. We're going to have Renown Reputations which are even more streamlined than the World Quest Reputations which will again be in-game as the World Quest system could fester on the zone creating a single purpose for its creation to serve the World Quests. Basically, the use case of larger zones is limited with the current design of the game after the Diablo 3 Team scurried off to the Legion Team and ruined everything about the World.

    But yeah, again I just don't see it. This whole thing is the dumbest marketing point I've ever seen TBH. What are they filling the zones with and the only answer is "World Quest Nodes with the focus on places being to do those WQs as you zip around the map".

    Anything immersion or interesting? Nope, not a chance. This is also something I expect to see with the Verticality aspect. Cool stuff in the Vertical space? Nope, just more WQ Nodes to do.
    Last edited by Foreign Exchange Ztudent; 2022-04-26 at 09:46 PM.
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  3. #54143
    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    4 Zones is still less than 5 though. No matter how you spin it. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Considering the fact this is the least amount of zones, we've ever received in an expansion.
    I think people pointed out they showed a little bit of a desert (bronze) zone in the preview, that isn't the 4 zones (or the Drakthyr starter zone) so that looks like a future zone, ala Tanaan or Korthia.

    Other question is why did they design an entire zone just for the Dracthyr to level up 2 levels? Wouldn't it have made more sense to to do the introduction sequence in a phased version of the other zones?

  4. #54144
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    Honestly, they've been on a steady reduction of content and shipping less and less product to the consumer. Soo, I don't really believe much in the 4 Zones identity nor that the sizes will outshine the concept of more zones than a zone with several biomes and paletes in 4 megazones.
    Yet that has nothing to do with the number of zones and just the quality of work. More zones doesn't mean you will get a higher quality and more biomes and palettes. Just as 4 zones doesn't mean just one biome and palette.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Yet that has nothing to do with the number of zones and just the quality of work. More zones doesn't mean you will get a higher quality and more biomes and palettes. Just as 4 zones doesn't mean just one biome and palette.
    Well, the quality of work has declined and reducing zones by stating they are megazones is an easy way to reduce content available to the consumer going forward.
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  6. #54146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I think people pointed out they showed a little bit of a desert (bronze) zone in the preview, that isn't the 4 zones (or the Drakthyr starter zone) so that looks like a future zone, ala Tanaan or Korthia.
    The Bronze HQ is in Thaldraszus the zone that holds the capital city according to the small zone blurb on the expansion website.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    Well, the quality of work has declined and reducing zones by stating they are megazones is an easy way to reduce content available to the consumer going forward.
    You are talking about two different things though. If they increased zones that doesn't mean they won't be reducing content as well. There is no need to blame reduction in zone when it has nothing to do with quality or amount delivered.
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  7. #54147
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    So you didn't whine about there not being enough content or that there wasn't enough presented for us.

    'kay. This is pointless. At least everyone is aware you have no value in your voice.
    A lot of people pointed out Dragonflight seems like a smaller expansion, but I was pointing it out as a reason for the expansion to come out faster.

    My primary complaint has been the weird "Welcome to our home" PR coming from them as a company: A kind of false intimacy that corporate culture likes to tout. And how that "We're dying to show you more!" when that's factually untrue. They're time-gating information for the sake of hype and you shouldn't need to do that if there's real quality in your product.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The Bronze HQ is in Thaldraszus the zone that holds the capital city according to the small zone blurb on the expansion website.
    Even then. The Desert biome shown & the Thaldraszus preview doesn't match up, so it seems like there will be a 6th physical zone at launch, unpopulated until a future tier. Like Tanaan or the Broken Shore was.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-04-26 at 09:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You are talking about two different things though. If they increased zones that doesn't mean they won't be reducing content as well. There is no need to blame reduction in zone when it has nothing to do with quality or amount delivered.
    More Zones at least means quantifiable that there are more zones in the game even if the work put into these zones is limited due to budgeting. Megazones seem like an easy way to reduce content going forward due to their massive sizes.

    Again it is going to end up being like Open World Games where it just feels empty. Who would've guessed it?

    Dragonriding also means that every player won't even really feel the massive scale of emptiness in the zones which means art team can do less work and not focus too much on making sure everything is of high standards beyond the WQ node locations.

    Again, I'm sceptical about this.

    Obviously I like Megazones and have always felt the Art Team have made zones too claustrophobic lately. So, there's that. But yeah, I just worry that Blizzard has ulterior motives as per usual rather than just making Megazones because people want bigger zones. Blizzard never does anything out of the kindness of their heart. There's always something negative tied to a good decision.
    Last edited by Foreign Exchange Ztudent; 2022-04-26 at 10:05 PM.
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  9. #54149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    Again it is going to end up being like Open World Games where it just feels empty. Who would've guessed it?

    Dragonriding also means that every player won't even really feel the massive scale of emptiness in the zones which means art team can do less work and not focus too much on making sure everything is of high standards beyond the WQ node locations.

    Again, I'm sceptical about this.
    Pure guesswork. You have no way of knowing any of this. We don't know how packed the zones are going to be and we don't know how exactly fast Dragonriding is going to be, especially when you start slower and have to acquire upgrades for it over time. This is not skepticism, this is pessimism. You instantly assume negative outcome, just like you did all those months in this thread.
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  10. #54150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Even then. The Desert biome shown & the Thaldraszus preview doesn't match up, so it seems like there will be a 6th physical zone at launch, unpopulated until a future tier. Like Tanaan or the Broken Shore was.
    Do you have a link to that biome? Because I'm not seeing it in a brief glimpse (5 second fast forwards) of the reveal video or their press kit.
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  11. #54151
    I think the Dracthyr starting zone will be used like the Broken Shore was for a later patch.

  12. #54152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    More Zones at least means quantifiable that there are more zones in the game even if the work put into these zones is limited due to budgeting..
    More zones doesn't mean quality though which is what you stated is the core issue in earlier posts. So why are you now saying that seeing a 6 instead of a 4 automatically means more quality and more content? It is quite easy to deliver less content even though zone number is higher if they reuse assets, right? You just have a whole bunch of issues you are trying to cram into one box labeled "Zone count" rather then letting those issues exist on their own.
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  13. #54153
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    More zones doesn't mean quality though which is what you stated is the core issue in earlier posts. So why are you now saying that seeing a 6 instead of a 4 automatically means more quality and more content? It is quite easy to deliver less content even though zone number is higher if they reuse assets, right? You just have a whole bunch of issues you are trying to cram into one box labeled "Zone count" rather then letting those issues exist on their own.
    Either way, I don't like the Zone Count of Dragonflight. It is worrying as WoW is a precedent based game and low Zone counts could lead to same Zone counts going forward. Megazones are cool if they are putting the budget and art team at full effort. But, again it could be cost saving measure and a precedent of low/reduction of zone count going forward.

    Whether my worries are correct or not remains to be seen, what I do think is that it is silly to ascertain that 4 Zones is normal even if they are Megazones. Yes, we may get two more Major Patch Content Islands too. But, that's up in the air.

    I like Megazones, I just hope that it won't mean that we are reducing zone count solely due to Megazones being a concept that now exists in the franchise going forward.
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  14. #54154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    Either way, I don't like the Zone Count of Dragonflight. It is worrying as WoW is a precedent based game and low Zone counts could lead to same Zone counts going forward. Megazones are cool if they are putting the budget and art team at full effort. But, again it could be cost saving measure and a precedent of low/reduction of zone count going forward.
    Yet you would automatically be fine if the same Megazone was split into smaller zones. You don't see the absurdity of that? A megazone means they are not going to put the full budge and effort into the zone but it being 4 smaller zones means they will. Zone count is just a number. It is meaningless to any content of the zones or quality of the zones.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  15. #54155
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    For most ppl here it’s maybe a good advice to read the Galakrond/Apsects novell

    https://www.amazon.com/World-Warcraf...009036&sr=8-16
    Thanks for this. Currently listening to Sylvanas audiobook, I'll try this one next.

    edit: lmao @ this discussion going on.

    Yes, small numbers bad, big numbers good.
    Last edited by wowrefugee; 2022-04-26 at 10:18 PM.

  16. #54156
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Yet you would automatically be fine if the same Megazone was split into smaller zones. You don't see the absurdity of that? A megazone means they are not going to put the full budge and effort into the zone but it being 4 smaller zones means they will. Zone count is just a number. It is meaningless to any content of the zones or quality of the zones.
    I don't get why we're getting into the topic of basic math. If you chopped the zones up into more zones that would mean more zones, yes. Chopping up a Megazone that has themed biomes into more zones would mean more zones.

    The point here is the precedent it sets. WoW is already suffering from extreme reduction in content to the player and as such Zone count going to an alarming number of 4 for a continent is extremely alarming as this will set precedent for the next expansions going forward.

    The issue here is the principle idea that them telling us that a selling point of the expansion is 4 Megazones is alarming as it means they might intend to keep this trend of zone design in which they say "Hang on, you wanted Megazones. Well, our compromise is that we only create continents with 4 Megazones going forward and nothing more.".
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  17. #54157
    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    I don't get why we're getting into the topic of basic math. If you chopped the zones up into more zones that would mean more zones, yes. Chopping up a Megazone that has themed biomes into more zones would mean more zones.

    The point here is the precedent it sets. WoW is already suffering from extreme reduction in content to the player and as such Zone count going to an alarming number of 4 for a continent is extremely alarming as this will set precedent for the next expansions going forward.

    The issue here is the principle idea that them telling us that a selling point of the expansion is 4 Megazones is alarming as it means they might intend to keep this trend of zone design in which they say "Hang on, you wanted Megazones. Well, our compromise is that we only create continents with 4 Megazones going forward and nothing more.".
    What if megazones are better and have more content than tiny clustered zones we have now

    The reason basic math is brought up is because thats what your argument hinges on: "5 is better than 4" irregardless of any other factors

  18. #54158
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    I don't get why we're getting into the topic of basic math. If you chopped the zones up into more zones that would mean more zones, yes. Chopping up a Megazone that has themed biomes into more zones would mean more zones.
    Because you were using math as a reason to complain? Legion only have 5 zones at launch. Shadowlands had only 5 at launch. There is no precedent being set here. You can be alarmed about quality of work but don't try to use math and the number of zone as the reason. Because it is irrelevant.
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  19. #54159
    Bloodsail Admiral Foreign Exchange Ztudent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wowrefugee View Post
    What if megazones are better and have more content than tiny clustered zones we have now

    The reason basic math is brought up is because thats what your argument hinges on: "5 is better than 4" irregardless of any other factors
    I mean my argument basis is that WoW is a precedent based game. Design that lingers for a decade exists based on stupid shit like this argument. 4 Zones being showcased as enough for the base product could lead to 4 zones being the new normal for the base product going forward which is troubling.

    Normalizing 4 Zones as the maximum in the base product is the problem at play here.

    The problem is we're seeing the argument for this worry basically being destroyed by the argument that the zones are bigger in which I think its' rather silly cause we have no idea on the content of the zones or what is in the zone. Whether they will be anything more than just WQ node blitzing at max level and whether the utilization of the zones during levelling will be good or not.
    Last edited by Foreign Exchange Ztudent; 2022-04-26 at 10:28 PM.
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  20. #54160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Oh, it's fascinating how they are absolutely fuming over DF, mainly because of Drakebois.
    Not directly about the poster or what ever, but I see some repetitive things that made more sense around legion and before, but this time around after their second try, (Sl) the forums were heated with skepticism. Now that we are here in time.. we suddenly forgot the past and we should just have full faith in them? According to some, the skepticism doesn't seem justified It feels like.. we are back to square one and a repeat of: oo it's only alpha...oo it's only beta, wait for your judgement etc etc.
    At this point, there is no wait and see anymore. Ofc things can still be not ready, but they even told us they are far along. So not showing much and the weird reveal they did this year makes it feel off. That being said..I do understand the criticism in general.

    edit: 5 zones, isn't that with the new strating zone for Dracthyr included? so for any non evokers it's 4?
    Last edited by Alanar; 2022-04-26 at 10:33 PM.

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