Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Ilir]

Because Pre-Orders are tied to 9.2.5. All of the pre-order bonuses are in that patch. Once it launches, we will get the pre-orders up shortly after it goes live.

Err aren't most of the pre-order bonus already in the live server but encrypted ?

[Sondrelk]

That's a whole can of worms.
Some people on twitter felt that the way characters, and their races, were portrayed was insensitive and relied on tropes, in relation to their real life inspirations.

One of the very specific things was that they severely downplayed the burning of Teldrassil, and in turn portrayed Nelves as unfair for not wanting Horde to come into their lands.
The most egregious one though was that Zekhan (and by proxy the Horde) was shown to be an illiterate idiot, who despite being a trained shaman didnt understand basic concepts like the tides.

It all just kinda coalesced into making the Horde seem like the biggest dunces on Azeroth.

[Cheezits]

Many many racist caricatures, a letter that was written in Gallywix's voice that was changed last minute to Gazlowe. This is a good breakdown: https://www.wowhead.com/news/world-o...-racial-325248

Honestly the jab that Zekhan SHOULD be literate because troll culture has literature is very funny: because clearly, all trolls are X right?

[Alexjimithing]

Yeah it did the Horde dirty.

Zekhan having to be taught how to read/write by Lor'themar makes zero sense within the lore too.

[wowrefugee]

I really hope the Dark Ranger customizations are extensive and not just "now you get red eyes! its just like how night elves got black eyes!"

[Sondrelk]

Honestly the jab that Zekhan SHOULD be literate because troll culture has literature is very funny: because clearly, all trolls are X right?

All trolls is one thing. Zekhan however is a member of a fairly small tribe that is clearly in the good graces, as well as close proximity to the rest of the Horde.
Are we to assume that Echo Isles has a rampant homeless shaman problem?

[Marlamin]

Err aren't most of the pre-order bonus already in the live server but encrypted ?

Yep, since 9.1.5. Arguably they've still been updating various parts in 9.2.0 and maybe even 9.2.5.

[Hugnomo]

One of the very specific things was that they severely downplayed the burning of Teldrassil, and in turn portrayed Nelves as unfair for not wanting Horde to come into their lands.
The most egregious one though was that Zekhan (and by proxy the Horde) was shown to be an illiterate idiot, who despite being a trained shaman didnt understand basic concepts like the tides.

It all just kinda coalesced into making the Horde seem like the biggest dunces on Azeroth.

I think these reasons, while valid and held by many, were not the motivation for the question being asked. I saw the original tweet from the person who asked the question. It was specific to how the book portrays cultures inspired by BIPOC communities.

EDIT: @JDBlou posted a wowhead article that goes into detail on these complaints.

[Xilurm]

Many many racist caricatures, a letter that was written in Gallywix's voice that was changed last minute to Gazlowe. This is a good breakdown: https://www.wowhead.com/news/world-o...-racial-325248

Damn, that sucks.

Looks like the EK book had way more care though. So might get that. And it looks like they wanna get things right for the Northrend book aswell. So maybe that's something to look forward to.

[Berkilak]

Yeah it did the Horde dirty.

Zekhan having to be taught how to read/write by Lor'themar makes zero sense within the lore too.

Yeesh. Pure "White Man's Burden" right there. Their moral duty to educate the savage...

[Hugnomo]

Damn, that sucks.

Looks like the EK book had way more care though. So might get that. And it looks like they wanna get things right for the Northrend book aswell. So maybe that's something to look forward to.

Personaly, I quite liked the EK one. It's a light, fun read. If you're into Shaw and Flynn as characters it's great.

[Sondrelk]

Damn, that sucks.

Looks like the EK book had way more care though. So might get that. And it looks like they wanna get things right for the Northrend book aswell. So maybe that's something to look forward to.

I think a problem with the Kalimdor book as well is that it is probably just an inherently less interesting place than EK in terms of lore. You really only have the Tauren and Nelves with any long-term storylines going on there, and the Tauren are nomadic, and the Nelves mostly stick to the zones surrounding Hyjal.

With EK you had the ongoing storylines of Gilneas, Lordaeron, Silvermoon, Stormwind, Ironforge, etc. In addition to places like the Plaguelands and such that are still mostly unresolved.
In Kalimdor you have a few sparse interesting places like Tanaris and the Barrens. Bust mostly it's just empty wilderness.

[ChairmanKaga]

think, have there been any Tuskarr undead on a continent under the sway of the Lich King? No, and now we know why.

Tuskarrs eat their dead.

[Hitei]

All trolls is one thing. Zekhan however is a member of a fairly small tribe that is clearly in the good graces, as well as close proximity to the rest of the Horde.
Are we to assume that Echo Isles has a rampant homeless shaman problem?

...it's a handful of shitty shacks tied together with vines on a tropical island, not Dalaran. Last time I checked there wasn't a library building.

[Sondrelk]

...it's a handful of shitty shacks tied together with vines on a tropical island, not Dalaran. Last time I checked there wasn't a library building.

He is a Shaman, maybe if he was a generic warrior then I might be willing to let some of it slide. But how does someone who us supposed to become a village elder and what have you not know how erosion works?

[Ersula]

...it's a handful of shitty shacks tied together with vines on a tropical island, not Dalaran. Last time I checked there wasn't a library building.

That was likely the writers' base assumption but that doesn't match up with Darkspear lore: Zabra Hexx brought priest magic to the trolls from the humans through their writing.

[Shadochi]

Well Dragonflight (and WoW Future) looks more promising with every interview and their core design and philosophy changes. I hope they can back it up with a strong patch cycle like legion (and part of that is at least 1 dungeon with each major patch) and we might have an amazing expansion. I mean so far they are already stepping away from the templates that SL and BfA had been of changing around some Legion and WoD (mission table) features to fit the theme.

As for preorders, a bit funny how part of the community is always "remember dont preorder" and then there are others "preorder should've been last month" (in some cases I saw the same person saying both in span of days). My guess is they might be aiming for end of year but don't want to tie themselves up because of possible delays.

[Hitei]

That was likely the writers' base assumption but that doesn't match up with Darkspear lore: Zabra Hexx brought priest magic to the trolls from the humans through their writing.

...and you think that rather than being taught their craft by other shamans via word of mouth (the thing we literally see in game) Darkspear shaman trainees... are being handed priests texts to study and learn to read from?

He is a Shaman, maybe if he was a generic warrior then I might be willing to let some of it slide. But how does someone who us supposed to become a village elder and what have you not know how erosion works?

How many thousands of years do you think villages existed with elders before the specific term "erosion" came into common parlance? Did you even read the page in question or are you just parroting the dumb take wowhead posted? Zekhan clearly understands the process "to me, it be a reminder that all things be shaped by time, nature, or both", the thing that he learned from Lor'themar was specifically the individual word "erosion" as a term for that natural wearing away by time or nature.

[Alexjimithing]

...it's a handful of shitty shacks tied together with vines on a tropical island, not Dalaran. Last time I checked there wasn't a library building.

Yeah cause if a culture doesn't have buildings and a library it means they're illiterate.

Jesus dude.

[Berkilak]

He is a Shaman, maybe if he was a generic warrior then I might be willing to let some of it slide. But how does someone who us supposed to become a village elder and what have you not know how erosion works?

Precisely. Primitive is not a synonym for stupid. It would be funny, if it were not so tragic, how much indigenous knowledge is dismissed has mythology and superstition, only for Western medicine and archeology to independently verify that knowledge centuries later.

- - - Updated - - -

...and you think that rather than being taught their craft by other shamans via word of mouth (the thing we literally see in game) Darkspear shaman trainees... are being handed priests texts to study and learn to read from?

Defending the White Man's Burden is a very bad look.