Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[plz delete account]

A familiar tune popped up in today's PTR build...

Lament of the motherfucking highborne. DARKFALLEN CONFIRMED

[Three Faced Goddess]

Garrosh is a shame—he really was an excellent character, but people seem too set on apologizing for him. I frankly think that both incarnations of Garrosh – the Stonetalon approach and the MoP approach – are good characters, though it is a shame to me we didn't get the former at all. I do hope that Geya'rah may end up as the new Stonetalon Garrosh, which is why I'm so often shilling for her as a good character (if not a reliable narrator or good person). I do think that one thing I can say strongly about Garrosh is he is one of the better characters personality-wise and motive-wise in WoW. He was somebody you could grow attached to.

The issue with people taking the wrong thing away from him is that they are too set on reconciling the evil and honorable perspectives on the Horde when they are not strictly incompatible as being simultaneously-extant groups in the Horde. Somehow, the Horde needs to be a ravening horde of lunatics but also an honorable federation of clans. This confused perspective is part of what makes Garrosh apologists too inclined to apologize for him in the way they do. This also relates, I think, to Garrosh being a very good character and those being very scarce right now. It makes one almost hope that he could have been redeemed simply because he was cool enough that he could've been a very interesting leader in, say, Legion or BfA relative to characters like Sylvanas.

I will say that Sylvanas apologists annoy me more, though, because her actions were generally objectively far worse (direct, active and intentional genocide plus sending everybody she killed to hell to be killed a second time or at least be tortured) yet it seems more common for her to be portrayed as a victim whereas Garrosh is rightly portrayed as the genocidal aggressor he is. Both are bad, but I'd say Sylvanas is worse. It's very odd that Sylvanas was redeemed but Garrosh couldn't even be redeemed in the afterlife. I think both deserved repercussions, but I think Garrosh certainly would deserve a few millennia in Revendreth more than the Maw, and certainly was less evil than Sylvie by any account.

Oh no, I agree on both accounts. Another example would be Arthas, who most certainly did horrific things and committed atrocities that were considered by many to be irredeemable. But then we have Sylvanas who traveled down the same path, if not a marginally worse one. When Sylvanas played LK there was pity and compassion towards her because she was a victim, a damaged, broken soul twisted by Arthas. Without realizing that SLs story made Arthas just as much a victim of the Jailer as everyone else. I doubt Arthas would have traveled the road he did without the Jailer's influence.

No helm, no Frostmourne means no Scourge. Like Arthas, Sylvanas also committed genocide, tortured people, raised them into undeath, and mind-controlled them but she did one thing he didn't do. Arthas never damned his victims to the Maw for an eternity of suffering or to be consumed as fuel. Yet, she was worthy of redemption and he was not. Both him and Garrosh were worthy of oblivion and non-existence for their crimes. No forgiveness. That's a double standard.

[Alexjimithing]

There is, at the VERY least, going to be Darkfallen customizations.

I'm still hedging on a full on AR though as 9.2.5 preorder bonus.

[Blayze]

There is, at the VERY least, going to be Darkfallen customizations.

I'm still hedging on a full on AR though as 9.2.5 preorder bonus.

Welp, there goes my perfect 1:1 race:class ratio.

[Eurhetemec]

Yet, she was worthy of redemption and he was not. Both him and Garrosh were worthy of oblivion and non-existence for their crimes. No forgiveness. That's a double standard.

Arthas kind of did get redeemed, just in death rather than in life, though. He sure looked pretty redeemed. Sure it's Darth Vader redemption, but well, he was Darth Vader so that's to be expected.

Garrosh died for Blizzard's sins, frankly, and that was bad writing by whoever made those decisions, who I am pretty sure no longer works for Blizzard. Also Thrall was written appallingly around the same time. If Metzen was involve he should be ashamed.

Sylvanas is no more "deserving" of redemption than Arthas or Garrosh, I agree, but deserving isn't how the world works, nor can we travel back in time and adjust the writing of previous characters. It's not a meaningful "double standard".

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Arthas kind of did get redeemed, just in death rather than in life, though. He sure looked pretty redeemed. Sure it's Darth Vader redemption, but well, he was Darth Vader so that's to be expected.

Garrosh died for Blizzard's sins, frankly, and that was bad writing by whoever made those decisions, who I am pretty sure no longer works for Blizzard. Also Thrall was written appallingly around the same time. If Metzen was involve he should be ashamed.

Sylvanas is no more "deserving" of redemption than Arthas or Garrosh, I agree, but deserving isn't how the world works, nor can we travel back in time and adjust the writing of previous characters. It's not a meaningful "double standard".

Garrosh always had an aggressive streak also his recent action in SL isn't any different. He doesn't regret anything, even before his "RAWR I KILL US BOTH" moment he reiterated he would do what he did at Theramore AGAIN. It was pretty clear who he was and not some bad writing.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

A familiar tune popped up in today's PTR build...

OH MY

(as always, Eversong Woods music just slaps)

[Cheezits]

For comparison, the Kul Tiran AR intro. It's about the same length.

[Eurhetemec]

Garrosh always had an aggressive streak also his recent action in SL isn't any different. He doesn't regret anything, even before his "RAWR I KILL US BOTH" moment he reiterated he would do what he did at Theramore AGAIN. It was pretty clear who he was and not some bad writing.

Oh god they brought him back in SL? Teach me to quit halfway through an expansion I guess. Time to go watch some cinematics!

- - - Updated - - -

OH MY

(as always, Eversong Woods music just slaps)

Man that whole zone and everything about it slapped so damn hard when it was new. I remember my wife and I being like "This is what leveling zones should be like!". The music and vibes were just spot-on.

[huth]

Oh god they brought him back in SL? Teach me to quit halfway through an expansion I guess. Time to go watch some cinematics!

It was literally a single bossfight after you listen to him dealing with constipation running up to the arena. He also ensured he will never show up ever again.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Oh god they brought him back in SL? Teach me to quit halfway through an expansion I guess. Time to go watch some cinematics!

He pops up during the Soulrender Dormazain encounter in Sanctum of Domination, he's being tortured and well he does something after you "defeat" soulrender dude.

[wowrefugee]

For comparison, the Kul Tiran AR intro. It's about the same length.

Oh god, I'm getting too hyped. I don't wanna get my hopes up and be let down, but a dark fallen allied race would be so sick, and a cool send off for Sylvanas.

[therumblings]

Yeah, it's very similar to the music clip length for the intro cinematics of the other allied races. I'm excited.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Man that whole zone and everything about it slapped so damn hard when it was new. I remember my wife and I being like "This is what leveling zones should be like!". The music and vibes were just spot-on.

For sure, even today EW is just so high in terms of immersion. The aesthetics, the music, it just hits so damn well.

[Cheezits]

I'm just curious as to how they will be handling the Nelf Dark Rangers. I assumed we would get both the Belf and Nelf so each faction can get an AR (with similar racials) but maybe they will only do one of them?

Or they are giving them both the same starting zone and music.

https://twitter.com/Portergauge/stat...55065689391104

Looks like a hint they will be reusing the unique Dark Ranger voice actors that were used in Darkshore.

This PTR build added a lot of very suspicious combat noises that sound almost identical to the dark ranger voice actors from 8.1

I'm not saying it's set up for dark rangers, but it's a very odd amount of combat noises to add in a patch that otherwise doesn't seem to need it

[rhorle]

I really hate that allied races are mostly glorified skins. Blizzard really should start doing these types as skin/customization so they also don't have to do the added work of balancing new racials.

[Cheezits]

I really hate that allied races are mostly glorified skins. Blizzard really should start doing these types as skin/customization so they also don't have to do the added work of balancing new racials.

They needed new voices and racials. Yes the voices could be added as barber shop but if this is a race, you are actually playing a Dark Ranger as opposed to having to seriously play pretend.

In that case, the only two subraces that got fucked are Wildhammer and Sand Trolls via the customizations, and still people were annoyed at that.

[therumblings]

In that case, the only two subraces that got fucked are Wildhammer and Sand Trolls via the customizations, and still people were annoyed at that.

As a huge dwarf fan, I was saddened by that, but I can understand why they did it. Hoping one day they can give them their own racials, maybe one of them being a flightmaster whistle.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yeah, it's very similar to the music clip length for the intro cinematics of the other allied races. I'm excited.

JFC everytime I wash my fucking face I end up putting the clown make up again

[Malorne the White Stag]

Man, no tsukarr and more elves? Sad day.