Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[B01L]

Mythic Zero dungeons should be another tier in the Group Finder, with an "Incentive Chest" for Tanks and Heals doing their first random dungeon of the day...

Gear from LFR should provide enough iLvl to enter the Mythic Zero dungeons...?

Would make it easier casual/solo players to complete the "four Mythic dungeons" weekly...

[Revamp Man]

As i wrote, the most easy solution for casual gamers would be to add valor points to matchmade dungeons and world quests, and to add vendors where casual gamers could acquire gear. That system seems to work fine in matchmade PVP, while i am not sure the devs will add that back. Simply because they dislike matchmaking. No matter how successfull it is. They even do not add LFD to WotLK classic, even if 70% of the classic players would like it. So it is clear it is not about what the players want but simply what the developers dictate them what should be fun.

Blizzards devs and their bias simply is a tyranny for most of their players. I would wish many players would realize that and stop buying the shit blizzard creates and stop playing games that are not made for them. But for some reason and with good PR blizzard always manages to lure back millions into new expacs, which leave the game short after, disappointed again blizzard did not make the game for them.

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Oh yeah, i am sure mocking will help to solve the problems

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If you wonder i did not answer to your post, it is simply because i agree with most of your statements.

nothing on this site will fix any problems much less the posts in this thread from someone who spergs over stuff that we end up finding out isnt an issue days after only to move to the next issue

[Revamp Man]

So you literally mean, no feedback will make the developers change their behaviour?

Probably you are right and people simply should stop playing World of Warcraft. But before we get there, there is still the hope that common sense and obviously big problems and the ability of the devs to read could help us to create a fun game rather than another set of chores players stop to play after a single month of gametime.

You know, instead of removing gameplay, like Torghast and islands and Warfronts, the developers could get the idea to reiterate on what was wrong and make the gameplay better and rewarding, instead of removing it once anyone dared to criticize them for a bad implementation. Do not be a diva, be a developer. A developer reiterates to a new version of his work if it failed.

theres a difference between feedback on the official forums and claiming no torghast is a terrible change for the game

so currently all we know is that in 10.0 the big thing will be dragon riding and i can honestly say that will provide more interactive content than torghast
torghast wasnt amazing fun content because it was a neutered version of what we originally got to test and in reality was 2 runs per week at most with nothing meaningful aside from being required for legendary items. It not existing isnt going to be a huge loss in terms of player interaction especially now since you literally never have to run it and can just buy the materials.

But ok lets see what these things provided
warfronts were once per week and essentially an lfr run on normal and a slightly harder version on heroic
it rewarded gear and a currency that was used for 2 mounts
it allowed access to a zone with world quests and some cosmetic rewards like mounts and pets

islands were essentially the same but they also gave some fun story items and were the best source of azerite and the weekly required about 3 runs with more runs being optional for more AP or currency for cosmetics

torghast was twice a week rewarded currency for legendaries and dropped some cosmetics and as of now is 100% optional after unlocking legendary crafting. There is a boss rush mode and a longer version both of which are designed to reward cosmetics and be a faster way to get the currency.

10.0 has dragon riding which is not instanced but does reward cosmetics and allows you access to certain areas and treasures for more cosmetics



the key difference is that dragon riding is not instanced and unlike the other systems like torghast and warfronts we dont know how it will work.
they can add something in 10.1 or 10.2 so claiming they wont have it next expansion and that it is a huge loss is just outrage for the sake of outrage like the people who claimed we werent getting flying because we had dragon riding

[Sondrelk]

theres a difference between feedback on the official forums and claiming no torghast is a terrible change for the game

so currently all we know is that in 10.0 the big thing will be dragon riding and i can honestly say that will provide more interactive content than torghast
torghast wasnt amazing fun content because it was a neutered version of what we originally got to test and in reality was 2 runs per week at most with nothing meaningful aside from being required for legendary items. It not existing isnt going to be a huge loss in terms of player interaction especially now since you literally never have to run it and can just buy the materials.

But ok lets see what these things provided
warfronts were once per week and essentially an lfr run on normal and a slightly harder version on heroic
it rewarded gear and a currency that was used for 2 mounts
it allowed access to a zone with world quests and some cosmetic rewards like mounts and pets

islands were essentially the same but they also gave some fun story items and were the best source of azerite and the weekly required about 3 runs with more runs being optional for more AP or currency for cosmetics

torghast was twice a week rewarded currency for legendaries and dropped some cosmetics and as of now is 100% optional after unlocking legendary crafting. There is a boss rush mode and a longer version both of which are designed to reward cosmetics and be a faster way to get the currency.

10.0 has dragon riding which is not instanced but does reward cosmetics and allows you access to certain areas and treasures for more cosmetics



the key difference is that dragon riding is not instanced and unlike the other systems like torghast and warfronts we dont know how it will work.
they can add something in 10.1 or 10.2 so claiming they wont have it next expansion and that it is a huge loss is just outrage for the sake of outrage like the people who claimed we werent getting flying because we had dragon riding

You know what Torghast needed? Shittons of old recolored transmog, same as what islands got.
I would definitely run far more Torghast than I currently do, probably even on several alts if I got more transmog.

[Nymrohd]

theres a difference between feedback on the official forums and claiming no torghast is a terrible change for the game

so currently all we know is that in 10.0 the big thing will be dragon riding and i can honestly say that will provide more interactive content than torghast
torghast wasnt amazing fun content because it was a neutered version of what we originally got to test and in reality was 2 runs per week at most with nothing meaningful aside from being required for legendary items. It not existing isnt going to be a huge loss in terms of player interaction especially now since you literally never have to run it and can just buy the materials.

But ok lets see what these things provided
warfronts were once per week and essentially an lfr run on normal and a slightly harder version on heroic
it rewarded gear and a currency that was used for 2 mounts
it allowed access to a zone with world quests and some cosmetic rewards like mounts and pets

islands were essentially the same but they also gave some fun story items and were the best source of azerite and the weekly required about 3 runs with more runs being optional for more AP or currency for cosmetics

torghast was twice a week rewarded currency for legendaries and dropped some cosmetics and as of now is 100% optional after unlocking legendary crafting. There is a boss rush mode and a longer version both of which are designed to reward cosmetics and be a faster way to get the currency.

10.0 has dragon riding which is not instanced but does reward cosmetics and allows you access to certain areas and treasures for more cosmetics



the key difference is that dragon riding is not instanced and unlike the other systems like torghast and warfronts we dont know how it will work.
they can add something in 10.1 or 10.2 so claiming they wont have it next expansion and that it is a huge loss is just outrage for the sake of outrage like the people who claimed we werent getting flying because we had dragon riding

I think a crucial issue is that they did not really iterate that much with Warfronts and that the Islands was a miss matched design. Warfronts has potential if they were available more often and/or were challenging. Instead they decided to limit their availability to increase their rewards. Islands had so much effort go into them to create unique set pieces that you could explore and were somehow paired with gameplay that not just encouraged but demanded speed running them. Heck I have tried to do some solo exploration now that they are available but the opposing team is effectively a timer that cuts your effort short (and both cuts your effort short AND denies you any reward if you try to ignore them).

Torghast was iterated upon. I think the system in Torghast is very solid; the tree, the torments, the variety in anima powers offer good gameplay. The issue is the poor rewards and the very boring environment. They gave it time with the devs but not time with the art team. Torghast needed a lot more variety in mobs and environments (Jailer could simply have drawn parts of all the different realms into Torghast letting them reuse assets from all the zones) and needed to fullfill the Blizzcon promise and award Vault loot.

[Sondrelk]

I think a crucial issue is that they did not really iterate that much with Warfronts and that the Islands was a miss matched design. Warfronts has potential if they were available more often and/or were challenging. Instead they decided to limit their availability to increase their rewards. Islands had so much effort go into them to create unique set pieces that you could explore and were somehow paired with gameplay that not just encouraged but demanded speed running them.

I found the main flaw with Warfronts was that it was not just random matchmaking, but additionally was designed for 30 players. For what is supposed to be playing a hero unit in an RTS that is just absurd. No RTS has been improved by bumrushing the final base with 30 hero units, and maybe a couple of good units on the side.

It should have been 5 players maximum, and with much more emphasis placed on tactical play, and clever use of the resources you had.
As it stands the NPCs are pretty much pointless compared to the players, where it really should be the opposite. Players should be good at the beginning, and then be more of a support unit by the end.


As for islands it really is just baffling how they figured that island exploration would be improved by a competitive timed event.
It shouldn't even have been a queued event you do several of, but more likely an extra zone you go to where you complete quests and kill rares.

[Nymrohd]

I found the main flaw with Warfronts was that it was not just random matchmaking, but additionally was designed for 30 players. For what is supposed to be playing a hero unit in an RTS that is just absurd. No RTS has been improved by bumrushing the final base with 30 hero units, and maybe a couple of good units on the side.

It should have been 5 players maximum, and with much more emphasis placed on tactical play, and clever use of the resources you had.
As it stands the NPCs are pretty much pointless compared to the players, where it really should be the opposite. Players should be good at the beginning, and then be more of a support unit by the end.


As for islands it really is just baffling how they figured that island exploration would be improved by a competitive timed event.
It shouldn't even have been a queued event you do several of, but more likely an extra zone you go to where you complete quests and kill rares.

You are probably right, Warfronts might have played better with smaller groups. I will disagree on the NPCs not being strong though. I always made a point to grab two fully upgraded knights before the final rush and as a tank I would often do double or triple the damage that the dps with no NPC support did. Issue was that the content was so undertuned that you did not need the knights and also that all the NPC mobs were horrible at taking damage. I think 30 may have been too many but 5 would be too few; imo the event should be tuned so you always needed at least a few people on defense, two people running resources and two different assault groups (one main lane and one on the side lanes possibly alternating). Could be done with 10 people but you'd need NPCs that can tank or squishies would be destroyed.

For Islands I cannot even figure out how that concept survived even a single brainstorming session with half-competent devs. The content simply does not match the gameplay.

[Revamp Man]

You know what Torghast needed? Shittons of old recolored transmog, same as what islands got.
I would definitely run far more Torghast than I currently do, probably even on several alts if I got more transmog.

im glad i got the dragon riders gear in bfa

taht stuff is going to go for huge gold

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No, actually there simply is no solo queue gameplay anymore for casual gamers beside dungeons in 10.0, simply because blizzard stopped creating gameplay like that. So it is a deevolution. And feeding a dragon cannot really replace that.

youre right they cant add anything in a patch
its totally impossible
game is dead

[Nymrohd]

When did they add a new gameplay component they did not announce in a release trailer last time?

Rather contrary they often did not implement all the features they announced.

Brawler's guild, extensive solo gameplay added mid xpac and not announced at release. LFG, LFR, transmog, the Visions systems

[Makorus]

When did they add a new gameplay component they did not announce in a release trailer last time?

Rather contrary they often did not implement all the features they announced.

World Quest? Updated Professions in Legion? Mythic+? Azerite Armor? War Mode? Class Redesigns? Group Finder? And that's just from expansion releases.

What features did not get implemented?

[Nymrohd]

World Quest? Updated Professions in Legion? Mythic+? Azerite Armor? War Mode? Class Redesigns? Group Finder? And that's just from expansion releases.

What features did not get implemented?

From SL, Torghast giving Vault loot, Coins being useable to target Vault loot. Probably the worst offender is flying mount combat which is on the box set of Wrath.

[Makorus]

From SL, Torghast giving Vault loot, Coins being useable to target Vault loot. Probably the worst offender is flying mount combat which is on the box set of Wrath.

Where is this "Torghast in Great Vault" stuff coming from? I keep reading about that, but I don't ever remember hearing about it, nor do I find anything when I look it up.

Same with bonus rolls coming back. I can't find it mentioned anywhere other than wishful thinking.

[Nymrohd]

Where is this "Torghast in Great Vault" stuff coming from? I keep reading about that, but I don't ever remember hearing about it, nor do I find anything when I look it up.

Same with bonus rolls coming back. I can't find it mentioned anywhere other than wishful thinking.

Was announced at Blizzcon together with the feature.

[Varodoc]

Void elves (like Alleria and Umbric) are kind of the pinnacle of evolution and existence on Azeroth, when you think about it.

They are elves who, as we all know, are objectively the strongest and most beautiful race on Azeroth, fashioned after the image of the Titan herself via the Well of Eternity. Unlike humans, they are advanced. And unlike dwarves, gnomes, or trolls, they are supremely beautiful. They are kind of perfection incarnate.

But they are also masters of the Void, the most powerful force in Reality, who have been touched by the Void, and survived; and they have turned calamity into opportunity, by using their Void mutations to their advantage.

And so it is only logical that the strongest of the Titans, destined to overthrow the Void Lords themselves (wink wink), would look like the pinnacle of evolution imaginable on Azeroth.

[Makorus]

Was announced at Blizzcon together with the feature.

I looked through every Shadowlands Panel and they didn't mention any of that stuff.

[Valysar]

When could we expect the 9.2.5 patch to be released?

1 month after MDI's end.

[Nymrohd]

I looked through every Shadowlands Panel and they didn't mention any of that stuff.

Will try to dig them up, it's not in the slides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q67Upjq7H8&t=2278s (at 46:25, "what bosses you bonus rolled"). I'll find the Torghast one later, going out for lunch (if I remember correctly it was in an interview given during Blizzcon).

[Nymrohd]

Brawlers Guild: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDB9xOWnDwM

All of the features of later patches always had been announced in patch notes, including LFR and LFD, for example

https://www.wowhead.com/patchnotes=3.3.0

You said announced at release. Yes we won't get a complete new system that is not announced in the patch notes of the patch that adds it.

[Revamp Man]

Brawlers Guild: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDB9xOWnDwM

All of the features of later patches always had been announced in patch notes, including LFR and LFD, for example

https://www.wowhead.com/patchnotes=3.3.0

Sure, they could add new features at later patches. Probably casual players should wait until later patches then.

added in 5.3 which was his point

When did they add a new gameplay component they did not announce in a release trailer last time?

Rather contrary they often did not implement all the features they announced.

lfd, lfr, and brawlers guild just to name a few were added mid expansion
we also had mythic dungeons though you would say that doesnt count because its not solo
we had the trove of the thunder king
argent tournament

its almost like blizzard has a habit of adding content for solo players mid expansion

[Nymrohd]

To add something constructive to the discussion, we do know that there is for the first time a separate World Content team. Up until now world content was part of the quest team. We've also seen in interviews a commitment to add more events in the world. Instead of a central system, we might simply get a lot more small events all over the map. Admittedly, we'd still need a reward system to make those worthwhile. Yet at the same time we DO have such a system; professions. The moment you make professions strong, any event simply needs to drop some profession reagents to make it worthwhile.