Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

This... isn't even accurate.
If anything, dragons have fairly slim shoulders for the game, which typically exaggerates shoulders. The difference here would probably be that dragons typically have exaggerated chests compared to limb length, but that's a typical feature for beasts, not humanoids. They also have large heads, but on a humanoid that's just going to look goofy as fuck.

Yes lovely, now pick pictures that show them head on instead of from the side (which distorts horizontal proportions) and show them standing instead of flying and with their hands folded in.

Her forearms together are the size of her torso.

[rhorle]

Cloud serpents are irrelevant because the Dracthyr are related to the classic five dragonflights. There could be a thousand different types of dragons in Azeroth but we are talking about something found in the Dragon Isles, home of the five dragonflights and created by Neltharion. And there is nothing silly about dismissing the Dragonmen if you account for their lore; they are a limited and failed necromantic experiment by Nefarian and within WoW they are always depicted negatively. Maloriak was a genius human cultist who devolved into a moron after the process. So yeah, that's not the prototype of what I'd want my character to be.

There are also proto-drakes found on the Dragon isles which are as related to the aspects as other dragons. They even fought against the Titan created aspects. You still can't just ignore any dragon lore. All you are doing is creating arbitrary rules for why your image of dragons should be what the Drac'thyr are based on rather then something that can be supported by lore. Like I said we already have had cenatur like Dragons, Dog dragons with multiple heads, and skinny man dragons. That already leaves an opening for what the Drac'thyr currently look like even if you restrict yourself to "Aspect-related" lore only.

Also it shows you don't understand lore if you think Maloriak would be a proto-type considering he was created thousands of years after the Drac'thyr. Drac'thyr could have been what the black flight was trying to recreate with Dragonmen but obviously failed. We also don't know how Drac'thyr were created and it could have included more then simply "aspect DNA" or whatever.

[Lahis]

In their visage form, yeah. Their propper dragon form is gender neutral which is awesome and makes sense because you know, all the other dragons ingame also don't have obvious differences between male and female ones. Honestly, it feels more like some people are afraid of the potential of creating a positive image for gender neutral / non-binary people lol.

Yeah. As much as I'd love to have some Dragon Boobs, gender neutral Dragon form makes sense for Warcraft.

[Sondrelk]

Yes lovely, now pick pictures that show them head on instead of from the side (which distorts horizontal proportions) and show them standing instead of flying and with their hands folded in.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/vDrc0qz.png[IMG]
Her forearms together are the size of her torso.

I mean you say that. But the Dracthyr chest is so slim that I wouldnt be surprised if they are about the same in terms of proportions.

I don't think the proportions are so bad compared to proper WoW dragons as you are making it out to be. The more I look at Alexstrasza here the more I think they kinda nailed the Dracthyr.

[Hitei]

Yes lovely, now pick pictures that show them head on instead of from the side and show them standing instead of flying and with their hands folded in.

Her forearms together are the size of her torso.

Forearms... aren't shoulders?

I avoided using Alexstrasza's sitting animation because the shoulders are even less pronounced in that animation. She barely has them at all, they're just slight outward curves instead of even jutting out.

[Makabreska]

Her forearms together are the size of her torso.

These are still not very pronounced shoulders.

[Nymrohd]

In thinking about it, I wonder if the problem with Dracthyr is simply that they lack a pronounced keelbone equivalent, and that expecting the Dracthyr to have that the rest of the body looks a bit out of proportion and lanky, as we are subconsciously expecting them to look a bit more bulky to accomodate the increased chest proportions.

Could also be the neck tbh. Fairly long but also slim. WoW Dragons tend to have very thick (just look at Alex above).

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Yeah. As much as I'd love to have some Dragon Boobs, gender neutral Dragon form makes sense for Warcraft.

I honestly don't mind the gender neutral form but it does make me wonder if they will change female dragonspawn who have very female torsos (tiny waists and big boobs). I spent so much time in vanilla looking at that model (skinning them for black scales, that's how I got my first epic mount).

[Hitei]

These are still not very pronounced shoulders.

Seriously.

[Sharby]

Always so crazy to me to use lore as a justification for or against customization options. After Void Elves I think its pointless.


Dracthyr will be modified regardless of what seems right based on demand since they're new.


Cataclysm Blizzard and modern Blizzard are totally different. They are way more feedback-oriented these days. Just keep submitting feedback to them.

[Nymrohd]

Seriously.

You are right, the standing form is even worse, it clips the arm into the torso. I think the only point where the model shows the proper proportions is when it is shuffling (https://www.wowhead.com/npc=155659/a...rm#modelviewer)

Beyond that I do wonder why the armor slots that will be visible are so limited. I absolutely get no helmets because they have shown very different snout models. But why no bracers or leg armor?

[Malorne the White Stag]

You are right, the standing form is even worse, it clips the arm into the torso. I think the only point where the model shows the proper proportions is when it is shuffling (https://www.wowhead.com/npc=155659/a...rm#modelviewer)

Beyond that I do wonder why the armor slots that will be visible are so limited. I absolutely get no helmets because they have shown very different snout models. But why no bracers or leg armor?

Time saving measure if I had to guess. Probably why they don't use weapons (or at least appear so), can't ride mounts and can't be other classes. Wouldn't surprise me if the higher ups at blizz want this out the door asap.

Also, don't be too sure about any armor, sounds like it'll be dressing room armor only.

[draugril]

Currently world first is big show that draw a lot attention to WoW.

Does it really, though? I think it certainly gets respectable attention from current WoW players, but I would be interested to see how much attention it draws from the external community.

[Nymrohd]

Time saving measure if I had to guess. Probably why they don't use weapons (or at least appear so), can't ride mounts and can't be other classes. Wouldn't surprise me if the higher ups at blizz want this out the door asap.

Also, don't be too sure about any armor, sounds like it'll be dressing room armor only.

I get the class limitation (largely because we discussed it at length and had come at the same conclusion in this thread). About weapons I'd get it if they were melee and focusing on claw attacks but since they are NOT melee, their physical ranged attacks seem to be tied to the wings, snout (breath weapon) and maybe tail so I don't get what restricts the hands/claws from holding e.g. a staff. I don't get the bracers/gloves/legs though. Maybe if they had more than two options when it came to their body model.

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Does it really, though? I think it certainly gets respectable attention from current WoW players, but I would be interested to see how much attention it draws from the external community.

I think that when it is up it is the most watched esport content on twitch or close to? Which is a much better performance than BLizzard's organized esports. It generates fairly large numbers for Twitch and even manages to maintain them over 2-3 weeks.

[Hitei]

Beyond that I do wonder why the armor slots that will be visible are so limited. I absolutely get no helmets because they have shown very different snout models. But why no bracers or leg armor?

Time saving measure if I had to guess. Probably why they don't use weapons (or at least appear so), can't ride mounts and can't be other classes. Wouldn't surprise me if the higher ups at blizz want this out the door asap.

It's because the geometry for those sections is variable as part of the customization.



You can see here that the left has 3D spikes on its forearms as part of its selected customization, where the teal has smooth forearms.

Likewise, the legs also have variable 3D geometry, these are not 2D painted on textures:



They have 3D geometry:



Since all leg armor is flat texture applied to the leg geometry (the 3D assets are usually up at the waist or down at the cuff) and a huge chunk of bracers are, these customization options are incompatible with those armors. You'd end up with the pants texture weirdly projected onto the spikes and stuff as the game tried to "paint" it on.

[Nymrohd]

It's because the geometry for those sections is variable as part of the customization.



You can see here that the left has 3D spikes on its forearms as part of its selected customization, where the teal has smooth forearms.

Likewise, the legs also have variable 3D geometry, these are not 2D painted on textures:



They have 3D geometry:



Since all leg armor is flat texture applied to the leg geometry (the 3D assets are usually up at the waist or down at the cuff) and a huge chunk of bracers are, these customization options are incompatible with those armors. You'd end up with the pants texture weirdly projected onto the spikes and stuff as the game tried to "paint" it on.

You are right, the spikes would have made it problematic

You know what makes me mad is that every complaint may end up being bullshit if they are ambitious enough with customization. 9.2.5 probably needs more time in the PTR which means alpha is unlikely to be before June (and probably later in June). I kind of expected to have a blog about talents already. A blog about Dracthyr customization with multiple images could shut everyone up.

[Sondrelk]

You are right, the spikes would have made it problematic

You know what makes me mad is that every complaint may end up being bullshit if they are ambitious enough with customization. 9.2.5 probably needs more time in the PTR which means alpha is unlikely to be before June (and probably later in June). I kind of expected to have a blog about talents already. A blog about Dracthyr customization with multiple images could shut everyone up.

I feel like this could be fixed by simply making it so transmogging pants just changes the leg texture to a flat one.
Not like pants changing the geometry of the base model is something new, it's literally been how the bulky pants model has worked since it was added.

[Hitei]

I feel like this could be fixed by simply making it so transmogging pants just changes the leg texture to a flat one.
Not like pants changing the geometry of the base model is something new, it's literally been how the bulky pants model has worked since it was added.

Bit unfortunate to have pants reduce size as if your customization doesn't exist though. Like having a hood just remove your demon hunter horns.

[boyzma]

Yeah but you aren't going to be playing Warcraft dragons period, just something similar enough to make you feel like one but you aren't outright one. I understand that the "Fixed" one looks better but I trufully don't see much wrong with the original design. They don't look like a gecko, they look like a mix of humanoid and dragon.

I prefer the original one...the fixed one is definatley too masculine. My son has a bearded dragon, and as much as I love him (the dragon) I absolutely would not play anything that looks like him.....buggy little eyes...no thanks.

[FossilFree]

The reason dracthyr look skinny is because they aren't wearing armor.

Imagine if humans weren't in the game yet and they released a concept of a derpy human male totally naked and running around in their underwear, exactly how excited would you get about that?

Armor makes the character look cool. It's a simple fact of RPGs. And no, their cheesy barber shop "armor" does not remedy this problem at all. It looks like they are wearing a hospital gown, not fearsome at all. Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot with this one, being so stubborn about no armor. It feels like another monkey paw wish.



I mean, come on.

[wowrefugee]

The reason dracthyr look skinny is because they aren't wearing armor.

Imagine if humans weren't in the game yet and they released a concept of a derpy human male totally naked and running around in their underwear, exactly how excited would you get about that?

Armor makes the character look cool. It's a simple fact of RPGs. And no, their cheesy barber shop "armor" does not remedy this problem at all. It looks like they are wearing a hospital gown, not fearsome at all. Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot with this one, being so stubborn about no armor. It feels like another monkey paw wish.



I mean, come on.

Considering Dracthyr does show shoulders, belts and tabards, this edit isn't too far from what it will look like.