Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Sharby]

Always so crazy to me to use lore as a justification for or against customization options. After Void Elves I think its pointless.


Dracthyr will be modified regardless of what seems right based on demand since they're new.


Cataclysm Blizzard and modern Blizzard are totally different. They are way more feedback-oriented these days. Just keep submitting feedback to them.

[Nymrohd]

Seriously.

You are right, the standing form is even worse, it clips the arm into the torso. I think the only point where the model shows the proper proportions is when it is shuffling (https://www.wowhead.com/npc=155659/a...rm#modelviewer)

Beyond that I do wonder why the armor slots that will be visible are so limited. I absolutely get no helmets because they have shown very different snout models. But why no bracers or leg armor?

[Malorne the White Stag]

You are right, the standing form is even worse, it clips the arm into the torso. I think the only point where the model shows the proper proportions is when it is shuffling (https://www.wowhead.com/npc=155659/a...rm#modelviewer)

Beyond that I do wonder why the armor slots that will be visible are so limited. I absolutely get no helmets because they have shown very different snout models. But why no bracers or leg armor?

Time saving measure if I had to guess. Probably why they don't use weapons (or at least appear so), can't ride mounts and can't be other classes. Wouldn't surprise me if the higher ups at blizz want this out the door asap.

Also, don't be too sure about any armor, sounds like it'll be dressing room armor only.

[draugril]

Currently world first is big show that draw a lot attention to WoW.

Does it really, though? I think it certainly gets respectable attention from current WoW players, but I would be interested to see how much attention it draws from the external community.

[Nymrohd]

Time saving measure if I had to guess. Probably why they don't use weapons (or at least appear so), can't ride mounts and can't be other classes. Wouldn't surprise me if the higher ups at blizz want this out the door asap.

Also, don't be too sure about any armor, sounds like it'll be dressing room armor only.

I get the class limitation (largely because we discussed it at length and had come at the same conclusion in this thread). About weapons I'd get it if they were melee and focusing on claw attacks but since they are NOT melee, their physical ranged attacks seem to be tied to the wings, snout (breath weapon) and maybe tail so I don't get what restricts the hands/claws from holding e.g. a staff. I don't get the bracers/gloves/legs though. Maybe if they had more than two options when it came to their body model.

- - - Updated - - -

Does it really, though? I think it certainly gets respectable attention from current WoW players, but I would be interested to see how much attention it draws from the external community.

I think that when it is up it is the most watched esport content on twitch or close to? Which is a much better performance than BLizzard's organized esports. It generates fairly large numbers for Twitch and even manages to maintain them over 2-3 weeks.

[Hitei]

Beyond that I do wonder why the armor slots that will be visible are so limited. I absolutely get no helmets because they have shown very different snout models. But why no bracers or leg armor?

Time saving measure if I had to guess. Probably why they don't use weapons (or at least appear so), can't ride mounts and can't be other classes. Wouldn't surprise me if the higher ups at blizz want this out the door asap.

It's because the geometry for those sections is variable as part of the customization.



You can see here that the left has 3D spikes on its forearms as part of its selected customization, where the teal has smooth forearms.

Likewise, the legs also have variable 3D geometry, these are not 2D painted on textures:



They have 3D geometry:



Since all leg armor is flat texture applied to the leg geometry (the 3D assets are usually up at the waist or down at the cuff) and a huge chunk of bracers are, these customization options are incompatible with those armors. You'd end up with the pants texture weirdly projected onto the spikes and stuff as the game tried to "paint" it on.

[Nymrohd]

It's because the geometry for those sections is variable as part of the customization.



You can see here that the left has 3D spikes on its forearms as part of its selected customization, where the teal has smooth forearms.

Likewise, the legs also have variable 3D geometry, these are not 2D painted on textures:



They have 3D geometry:



Since all leg armor is flat texture applied to the leg geometry (the 3D assets are usually up at the waist or down at the cuff) and a huge chunk of bracers are, these customization options are incompatible with those armors. You'd end up with the pants texture weirdly projected onto the spikes and stuff as the game tried to "paint" it on.

You are right, the spikes would have made it problematic

You know what makes me mad is that every complaint may end up being bullshit if they are ambitious enough with customization. 9.2.5 probably needs more time in the PTR which means alpha is unlikely to be before June (and probably later in June). I kind of expected to have a blog about talents already. A blog about Dracthyr customization with multiple images could shut everyone up.

[Sondrelk]

You are right, the spikes would have made it problematic

You know what makes me mad is that every complaint may end up being bullshit if they are ambitious enough with customization. 9.2.5 probably needs more time in the PTR which means alpha is unlikely to be before June (and probably later in June). I kind of expected to have a blog about talents already. A blog about Dracthyr customization with multiple images could shut everyone up.

I feel like this could be fixed by simply making it so transmogging pants just changes the leg texture to a flat one.
Not like pants changing the geometry of the base model is something new, it's literally been how the bulky pants model has worked since it was added.

[Hitei]

I feel like this could be fixed by simply making it so transmogging pants just changes the leg texture to a flat one.
Not like pants changing the geometry of the base model is something new, it's literally been how the bulky pants model has worked since it was added.

Bit unfortunate to have pants reduce size as if your customization doesn't exist though. Like having a hood just remove your demon hunter horns.

[boyzma]

Yeah but you aren't going to be playing Warcraft dragons period, just something similar enough to make you feel like one but you aren't outright one. I understand that the "Fixed" one looks better but I trufully don't see much wrong with the original design. They don't look like a gecko, they look like a mix of humanoid and dragon.

I prefer the original one...the fixed one is definatley too masculine. My son has a bearded dragon, and as much as I love him (the dragon) I absolutely would not play anything that looks like him.....buggy little eyes...no thanks.

[FossilFree]

The reason dracthyr look skinny is because they aren't wearing armor.

Imagine if humans weren't in the game yet and they released a concept of a derpy human male totally naked and running around in their underwear, exactly how excited would you get about that?

Armor makes the character look cool. It's a simple fact of RPGs. And no, their cheesy barber shop "armor" does not remedy this problem at all. It looks like they are wearing a hospital gown, not fearsome at all. Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot with this one, being so stubborn about no armor. It feels like another monkey paw wish.



I mean, come on.

[wowrefugee]

The reason dracthyr look skinny is because they aren't wearing armor.

Imagine if humans weren't in the game yet and they released a concept of a derpy human male totally naked and running around in their underwear, exactly how excited would you get about that?

Armor makes the character look cool. It's a simple fact of RPGs. And no, their cheesy barber shop "armor" does not remedy this problem at all. It looks like they are wearing a hospital gown, not fearsome at all. Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot with this one, being so stubborn about no armor. It feels like another monkey paw wish.



I mean, come on.

Considering Dracthyr does show shoulders, belts and tabards, this edit isn't too far from what it will look like.

[FossilFree]

Considering Dracthyr does show shoulders, belts and tabards, this edit isn't too far from what it will look like.

That isn't enough at all. And if tabards, why not tunics? They both cover the same area. This is just a case of Blizzard being stubborn over a stupid design decision that they keep doubling down on and digging themselves deeper.

I'm not maining a race that can transmog exactly two pieces of armor, because let's face it, a tabard is not armor, and I never wear one anyways.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That isn't enough at all. And if tabards, why not tunics? They both cover the same area. This is just a case of Blizzard being stubborn over a stupid design decision that they keep doubling down on and digging themselves deeper.

I'm not maining a race that can transmog exactly two pieces of armor, because let's face it, a tabard is not armor, and I never wear one anyways.

...Someone is a bit too angry about Dracthyr

[FossilFree]

...Someone is a bit too angry about Dracthyr

I'm angry that we finally get a dragon race, but it isn't really a new race. It's instead a glorified druid form that can't wear armor.

If they are going to introduce a new race, it should function like other races. Wearing armor, weapons, and having a range of class choices. The visage form is also completely unnecessary, and I feel it is the excuse they are using to not let the dragon form wear gear.

The question is, why is the visage form the race and the dragon form a shapeshift? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

The way they are handling it would have made more sense if evoker was a class that shapeshifted into a dragon and every existing race could be it. Like if worgen was a class and their Two Forms form was the race you chose to make the class on. Not this confused mess. It's like they are trying to have it both ways but are ruining both in the process.

[Hitei]

That isn't enough at all. And if tabards, why not tunics? They both cover the same area. This is just a case of Blizzard being stubborn over a stupid design decision that they keep doubling down on and digging themselves deeper.

I'm not maining a race that can transmog exactly two pieces of armor, because let's face it, a tabard is not armor, and I never wear one anyways.

Because chest pieces extend to the arms all the way down to the wrist, where there are issues with variable geometry (see the previous page). Whereas a tabard only covers the actual chest or the chest and a separate hanging bit over the groin.

They don't cover the same area.

[tumbleweed010]

Because chest pieces extend to the arms all the way down to the wrist, where there are issues with variable geometry (see the previous page). Whereas a tabard only covers the actual chest or the chest and a separate hanging bit over the groin.

They don't cover the same area.

Demon Hunters have all the non-tier leather drops coded to appear differently on them vs. other leather wearers. Blizzard could add a similar setup for Dracthyr and have all non-tier Dragonflight mail chests only show the center piece(s).

Saying a tabard is acceptable but a chest piece isn't is asinine because the precedent is already there to customize chest pieces specifically based on a prior hero class.

[wowrefugee]

Demon Hunters have all the non-tier leather drops coded to appear differently on them vs. other leather wearers. Blizzard could add a similar setup for Dracthyr and have all non-tier Dragonflight mail chests only show the center piece(s).

Saying a tabard is acceptable but a chest piece isn't is asinine because the precedent is already there to customize chest pieces specifically based on a prior hero class.

This comparison doesn't really work, though.

That DH thing was Legion-only, and even then they were still able to show chest pieces from previous and new expansions.

Your solution would end up causing one of two things. They can only show non-tier Dragonflight mail chests that only show center pieces, so

1) they can only ever show chest armor from this expansion that has been edited for them and players wonder why other chest pieces arent showing up

2) you give the artists infinitely more work going forward as they have to adjust the armor every time for Dracthyr

[Hitei]

Demon Hunters have all the non-tier leather drops coded to appear differently on them vs. other leather wearers. Blizzard could add a similar setup for Dracthyr and have all non-tier Dragonflight mail chests only show the center piece(s).

Demon Hunters have some non-tier leather drops from Legion changed to an altered form. Adding a "similar setup" isn't really an option, since already you're talking about some weird modified system where in Dracthyr can transmog only a half a dozen mail chest pieces out of the hundreds in the game (Demon Hunters can still equip all the non-modified leather chests).

Saying a tabard is acceptable but a chest piece isn't is asinine because the precedent is already there to customize chest pieces specifically based on a prior hero class.

It's not, because as above, you're comparing two thoroughly different situations. Demon Hunters have access to all leather transmog, they just designed a handful of Legion leather pieces to instead have parts cut out to give them more transmog options that showed tattoos prior to the chest-hiding option. What you're asking for is instead that Dracthyr's transmog restriction be overwritten so that they can only transmog that handful of modified pieces.

Additionally, as mentioned in the post you quoted, tabards and chest pieces are not the same thing. They are allowing this:



Note that this is a very modified version of the tabard, because of the additional geometry issues involved in their back, shoulders, tail, etc.

So the handful of chest modified chest transmogs also have to do this, but additionally are just chest pieces so they don't have the added effect of the long front. Basically you're asking for:



So I can see why--instead of making a bunch of modifications to give them a few dumb looking front-of-tanktop chest pieces (because chests is a slot that looks weird in isolation) while also making a really frustrating feeling transmog where you click "chest" and just see hundreds of previous armor pieces greyed out with the handful of weird modified, strapped-on chest plates--they just felt it was easier to disallow chest transmog and opt for tabards, which conveniently work as just strapped-on flare, compatible with all previously released ones.

I think if you were going to push for anything, it shouldn't be chest pieces, it should be for worgen-style modified boots on the lower leg. Because there's no way chest pieces don't just look real stupid when the character can't put on pants, but from all the Dracthyr we've seen so far, the leg past the knee seems to be consistent geometry, and should work with the top-of-boot style worgen use.

In fact, this is one of the things I'd strongly recommend people actually start asking for instead of significantly less realistic things like "allow all transmog". You could probably get them to do it pretty easily.

[tumbleweed010]

This comparison doesn't really work, though.

That DH thing was Legion-only, and even then they were still able to show chest pieces from previous and new expansions.

But only the Legion chest pieces had the special appearance only for Demon Hunters. This wouldn't be more work because it'd be a simple flag similar to the Legion ones: if (chest from Dragonflight) -> show special appearance; else -> hide chest.

1) they can only ever show chest armor from this expansion that has been edited for them and players wonder why other chest pieces arent showing up

People aren't actively asking why only Legion leather gear has a special appearance but none of the others for Demon Hunters. This wouldn't happen as much as you're thinking it will.

2) you give the artists infinitely more work going forward as they have to adjust the armor every time for Dracthyr

It wouldn't be more work because it'd work outside of Dragonflight because it'd have the same structure as DH, just more restrictive. In the grand scheme of an expansion with a new hero class, adding flags to allow gear from that expansion to properly display is a small investment with a huge upside since it allows more customization, which is supposed to be the "big thing" for Dracthyr Evokers.

Additionally, as mentioned in the post you quoted, tabards and chest pieces are not the same thing. They are allowing this:

This definitely puts it into perspective more. There's the images that they released that look like chest pieces on them, but looking at it now, it might be tabards.

I don't think allowing full transmog is a smart idea as it wouldn't mesh well at all with all the 3d parts on the model, but some small changes, like options for thicker arms/legs/neck and a stronger jawline to match current WoW dragon styles, along with some worgen style boots/wrist additions, would be a great addition.