Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Revamp Man]

So looks like plan was to release 9.2 last November, then reveal DF on Blizzconline and launch November this year. Now it's not surprising that first 9.2 PTR build had almost completed zone. Probably plan went to hell around summer for obvious reason, which also cause them to put extra focus on 9.1.5 changes.

I believe them when Ion/Morgan said they planned two patches/3 raids before launch (it was already deep into covid), but I don't think it was plan when they revealed expansion. Empty spot on Oribos top floor and Torghast are clear signs.

are you saying that covid effected the game development and led to delays even after launch?? careful because that kind of sound logic can lead to screeching around here

i imagine the original plan with DF was easily november this year but with the prequel novel coming out november im assuming january release based on the bfa novel time gap

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To be fair, if you had a reptile in humanoid form, it would have to have abs so it can stay upright.

but they gotta be a 6 pack man otherwise how can we possibly play them RP accurate

[Nymrohd]

but they gotta be a 6 pack man otherwise how can we possibly play them RP accurate

6? At least 8. If possible with outline definition so they pop better.

[wowrefugee]

So when do PTR builds usually happen? Is it random? I feel like it usually happens on Thursdays or Tuesday but I dunno.

[Lahis]

6? At least 8. If possible with outline definition so they pop better.

If I can't grate cheese on those abs they aren't believable for upright posture!

[Nymrohd]

So when do PTR builds usually happen? Is it random? I feel like it usually happens on Thursdays or Tuesday but I dunno.

Pretty much, rarely on Fridays as well.

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If I can't grate cheese on those abs they aren't believable for upright posture!

Truth be told if we would be talking about anatomy, you would expect a winged humanoid to have some insane shoulder muscles since they'd have muscles that both support the arms and the wings.

[Lady Atia]

Pretty much, rarely on Fridays as well.

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Truth be told if we would be talking about anatomy, you would expect a winged humanoid to have some insane shoulder muscles since they'd have muscles that both support the arms and the wings.

Tbf this PTR season is wild anyways regarding it's push days. I think we had everything from Monday to Friday already.

[Nymrohd]

Tbf this PTR season is wild anyways regarding it's push days. I think we had everything from Monday to Friday already.

Well it's not like they are even testing anything. Seems to me they are mostly pushing them to test stability? They haven't had any focused testing for the affix in dungeons and raids, we haven't seen the old dungeons & raids retuned either. 9.2.5 seems to be a fair bit far. Ofc it could just go live with the instances untested which can end up hilarious.

[Lady Atia]

Well it's not like they are even testing anything. Seems to me they are mostly pushing them to test stability? They haven't had any focused testing for the affix in dungeons and raids, we haven't seen the old dungeons & raids retuned either. 9.2.5 seems to be a fair bit far. Ofc it could just go live with the instances untested which can end up hilarious.

They can release the patch for the crossfaction part (prolly together with the end of hall of fame and crossrealm raiding) and test the affixes later since they already said they won't start season 4 with patch release anyways.

[Nymrohd]

They can release the patch for the crossfaction part (prolly together with the end of hall of fame and crossrealm raiding) and test the affixes later since they already said they won't start season 4 with patch release anyways.

End of Hall of Fame . . . so after the summer I guess. 9 Alliance guilds have killed Mythic Jailer. The guilds near top 100 on Alliance side have not killed Anduin Mythic yet.

Ofc they will probably just nerf the raid even more next week when the Horde Hall of Fame closes.

[Makorus]

Well it's not like they are even testing anything. Seems to me they are mostly pushing them to test stability? They haven't had any focused testing for the affix in dungeons and raids, we haven't seen the old dungeons & raids retuned either. 9.2.5 seems to be a fair bit far. Ofc it could just go live with the instances untested which can end up hilarious.

We have though.

All the old dungeons are already available to test. The new affix is half-implemented.

Fated Raids show up on the UI anyway, I dont know if they actually work.

[Lady Atia]

End of Hall of Fame . . . so after the summer I guess. 9 Alliance guilds have killed Mythic Jailer. The guilds near top 100 on Alliance side have not killed Anduin Mythic yet.

Ofc they will probably just nerf the raid even more next week when the Horde Hall of Fame closes.

That's my guess too. Will be interesting to see what else they do for Jailer and Anduin - I think both LoD and Rygalon are quite fine with all the gear we have now. Also, season 4 could be quite cool too since the raids will all be in their nerfed state from the beginn I would guess, and the affixes are more helping than cursing.

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In the end, the big question is if season 4 is more accessible for lower end mythic raids - what's the reason to overtune stuff at the start? Let's say the numbers jump up from 2% of Cutting Edge to 30% Mythic clears - wouldn't it make more sense to keep a lighter tuning for future raids? And keep in mind, even now when we talk about "nerfed raids" only ~2% of the players finish the raid.

Of course that's pure speculation on my part but it will be fun to watch the numbers of that experimental season.

[Nymrohd]

In the end, the big question is if season 4 is more accessible for lower end mythic raids - what's the reason to overtune stuff at the start? Let's say the numbers jump up from 2% of Cutting Edge to 30% Mythic clears - wouldn't it make more sense to keep a lighter tuning for future raids? And keep in mind, even now when we talk about "nerfed raids" only ~2% of the players finish the raid.

Of course that's pure speculation on my part but it will be fun to watch the numbers of that experimental season.

Eh, I think it makes sense for Mythic to only be finished by 2%. We have three other difficulties below it.

[Dracullus]

Well it's not like they are even testing anything. Seems to me they are mostly pushing them to test stability? They haven't had any focused testing for the affix in dungeons and raids, we haven't seen the old dungeons & raids retuned either. 9.2.5 seems to be a fair bit far. Ofc it could just go live with the instances untested which can end up hilarious.

How it "would end up hilarious"? S4 isn't launching with 9.2.5. But still I think they want test everything before patch launch to get it done and focus on Alpha. If I remember correctly in 9.1 and 9.2 M+ affix was tested on final weeks of PTR as well.

[Lady Atia]

Eh, I think it makes sense for Mythic to only be finished by 2%. We have three other difficulties below it.

Well, what brings more player numbers? The people who would only play if only 2% finish Mythic, or the people who would play if they actually could finish the highest content / get the cool cosmetics? It's a psychological thing. It would be different if the game would work like D3 were you don't get any new cosmetics for pushing higher levels of content - in that case it's just for rankings but players don't loose out on content if they aren't running hardcore XIII or whatever they call their levels now haha. I'm also quite sure this could help quite a bit with the boosting issue.

[Nymrohd]

How it "would end up hilarious"? S4 isn't launching with 9.2.5. But still I think they want test everything before patch launch to get it done and focus on Alpha. If I remember correctly in 9.1 and 9.2 M+ affix was tested on final weeks of PTR as well.

The Fated Affix can very well end up giving us a meta like HFC with a focus of just blowing up bosses using the affix effects. I honestly though that late 6.2 HFC runs were just funny as hell because I've never seen current raid bosses getting deleted like that before.

[Lady Atia]

Mythic+ is another example of a system that works far better than the current Mythic raid system - simply because cosmetic rewards are capped at +15 which can be finished by ~20% of their players, while +20 gives the portals which while cool, aren't customization so players who missed out on them won't mourne them too much. The 1% gets a title which also isn't that much of a problem if you don't get it.

[Nymrohd]

Well, what brings more player numbers? The people who would only play if only 2% finish Mythic, or the people who would play if they actually could finish the highest content / get the cool cosmetics? It's a psychological thing. It would be different if the game would work like D3 were you don't get any new cosmetics for pushing higher levels of content - in that case it's just for rankings but players don't loose out on content if they aren't running hardcore XIII or whatever they call their levels now haha. I'm also quite sure this could help quite a bit with the boosting issue.

Do people really buy Mythic boosts at a large number? I've seen the pricing for those and it is crazy. You really need to be a whale to be able to negotiate those prices.

As for Mythic raiding cosmetics . . . meh. The only worthwhile collectible is the mount. Everything else you can acquire a tier later with your raid group (it's what we do; we progress on Heroic until we get a very high ilvl and then we split days between easier current Mythic bosses and previous tier Mythic). Heck in this particular expansion even the last tier Mythic can end up on farm by heroic raiders after they get some decent Fated Heroic gear.

Mythic raid gear is just not particularly exclusive. It will never feel as impressive as gladiator gear.

[Lady Atia]

Do people really buy Mythic boosts at a large number? I've seen the pricing for those and it is crazy. You really need to be a whale to be able to negotiate those prices.

As for Mythic raiding cosmetics . . . meh. The only worthwhile collectible is the mount. Everything else you can acquire a tier later with your raid group (it's what we do; we progress on Heroic until we get a very high ilvl and then we split days between easier current Mythic bosses and previous tier Mythic). Heck in this particular expansion even the last tier Mythic can end up on farm by heroic raiders after they get some decent Fated Heroic gear.

Mythic raid gear is just not particularly exclusive. It will never feel as impressive as gladiator gear.

Yeah but keep in mind that this is the first time we get the fated raids so it's not the norm - hence I said it will be interesting to see the numbers and what Blizzard will do with them.

It's already quite promising that they use a reward structure something similiar to m+ - normal will give you a mount, heroic a title and mythic the teleports. This, together with weapons and trinkets on a vendor (without a CN style token system so you can still have cool lore weapons from bosses) are things I would like to see getting carried over for Dragonflight Season 1.

Currently, there are no reasons to raid normal besides getting badly recoloured gear. If you want something cool, you have to raid mythic. So either they should reshuffle rewards to make raiding more appealing, or make raiding more accessible with maybe a raid+ system that's for the world first guilds and all about who can push the highest, but with any cosmetics capped at M+0 level? People who want to play the hardest bosses can do it, and people who just wanna get their mounts/transmogs can get them too. With that system you also wouldn't need any nerfs I guess.

And Hall of Fame could be for the top 100/200 pushing guilds at the end of a season.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah but keep in mind that this is the first time we get the fated raids so it's not the norm - hence I said it will be interesting to see the numbers and what Blizzard will do with them.

It's already quite promising that they use a reward structure something similiar to m+ - normal will give you a mount, heroic a title and mythic the teleports. This, together with weapons and trinkets on a vendor (without a CN style token system so you can still have cool lore weapons from bosses) are things I would like to see getting carried over for Dragonflight Season 1.

Currently, there are no reasons to raid normal besides getting badly recoloured gear. If you want something cool, you have to raid mythic. So either they should reshuffle rewards to make raiding more appealing, or make raiding more accessible with maybe a raid+ system that's for the world first guilds and all about who can push the highest, but with any cosmetics capped at M+0 level? People who want to play the hardest bosses can do it, and people who just wanna get their mounts/transmogs can get them too. With that system you also wouldn't need any nerfs I guess.

Honestly I'd go with the reverse and say that M+ should no longer award Vault gear at a higher ilvl than the difficulty you complete and instead they should just let M+ award gear all the way to +20. The only other alternative I'd find acceptable would be for Vault rewards from raiding to ALSO be a tier above the content completed.

And yeah S4 is unique but it doesn't much change that all the cosmetics except for the mount from the last raid of the expac are usually easy to do in a 10-12 man PuG with decent ilvl in the first tier of the next xpac and very easy to do with a small group by the end of the xpac. Anything further behind is usually doable solo. I know collectors who very much don't do PvE content when it is current because they know they can just get it later on.

[Lady Atia]

Honestly I'd go with the reverse and say that M+ should no longer award Vault gear at a higher ilvl than the difficulty you complete and instead they should just let M+ award gear all the way to +20. The only other alternative I'd find acceptable would be for Vault rewards from raiding to ALSO be a tier above the content completed.

But m+ currently is the better, more modern system. Raiding should be molded after it, not the other way 'round, imo.

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And yeah S4 is unique but it doesn't much change that all the cosmetics except for the mount from the last raid of the expac are usually easy to do in a 10-12 man PuG with decent ilvl in the first tier of the next xpac and very easy to do with a small group by the end of the xpac. Anything further behind is usually doable solo. I know collectors who very much don't do PvE content when it is current because they know they can just get it later on.

Yeah but wouldn't it be more healthy for the game if you could bring these players and have them actually play the raids when they are current? Imagine f.e. if they would remove LFR, but let you queue for normal and heroic - the same as it is with dungeons right now. M+0 raid would be premade and basically a little bit easier than the latest iteration of a raid in it's current mythic state, with raid+2 and upwards going all the way to current week 1 bosses.

You would get more players into Mythic raiding, while raid+ would make the pushers and world first guilds happy. The formula worked with dungeons - which are the most played content right now I think.

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Also, iirc they are using already a m+ style scaling mechanic to tune raids during a tier, so it wouldn't be hard to implement on the technical side of things.