Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

I guess I shouldn't feed the troll, but Dracthyr don't need different bodies for males and females. Leave your gender norms at home please, we live in 2022.

I honestly have issue with the Visage form if that was the intent tbh. If Dracthyr was meant to be non-gendered, thus the gender non-conforming reptilian humanoid form, why do they have Visage forms that have so pronounced gender features? If their intent was to be body positive they fail miserably. What is the messaging here? "I have a healthy but not strongly gendered body so I use my magic to turn into an underwear model when out of combat"

[Auburst]

Well I hope I don't have to tell you why gender stereotyping is bad. It's great that Blizzard is progressive for once with the Dracthyr. And as Nymrohd already said, the male visage form is "manly enough".

I hope you won't because it isn't bad. All I see lately is Blizzard regressing hard. I hope they will listen and give us manly man dragon bodies.

[Lady Atia]

I honestly have issue with the Visage form if that was the intent tbh. If Dracthyr was meant to be non-gendered, thus the gender non-conforming reptilian humanoid form, why do they have Visage forms that have so pronounced gender features? If their intent was to be body positive they fail miserably. What is the messaging here? "I have a healthy but not strongly gendered body so I use my magic to turn into an underwear model when out of combat"

Well, I guess we will have to wait and see how they handle them in the intro? From interviews, it seems like they can change the gender of their visage form at will, hence the racial that barbershop isn't costing any money. Also keep in mind, Chromie was born as a male dragon but also choose a female visage form, so maybe they modelled them after that? I also remember that we had pronouns datamined some while back that never got used ingame - maybe dracthyr will be able to set theirs independendly of their visage form?

https://www.wowhead.com/news/unitsex...orld-of-325141

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Also, I'm wondering if we are getting beards for the dracthyr? Since dragons also have them it would be quite cool and give people a more male coded customization without changing their whole silhouette.

[Valysar]

Dragonflight is the best time to add DH's wings customizations... The lack of customization is horrible. (and horns too, I want a broken horn)

[Lady Atia]

Dragonflight is the best time to add DH's wings customizations... The lack of customization is horrible. (and horns too, I want a broken horn)

Yeah tbh, it feels a bit weird that Dracthyr will be able to fully use their wings while DH's are stuck with their weird double jump paperwings. A propper backpack customization that also doubles up as glider/mount similiar to Evocers would be quite awesome.

[Berkilak]

Well it is, because then that would cause Blizzard to create a second playable "dragon" race for no real reason, when their goal for the Dracthyr was to be THE dragon race/class of WoW.

Highmountain were a second playable "tauren" race for no real reason.
Dark Iron were a second playable "dwarf" race for no real reason.
Mag'har were a second playable "orc" race for no real reason.
Lightforged were a second playable "draenei" race for no real reason.
Zandalari were a second playable "troll" race for no real reason.
Mechagnomes were a second playable "gnome" race for no real reason.
Blood Elves were a second playable "elf" race for no real reason.
Void Elves were a third playable "elf" race for no real reason.
Nightbourne were a fourth playable "elf" race for no real reason.
Kul Tirans were a fourth playable "human" race for no real reason.


Hmm...

It's almost as if there might be a real reason behind this pattern of decisions? Almost like there can be multiple and diverse expressions of common fantasy tropes like "elves," "orcs," and "dragons." The Drac'thyr is simply an expression of the draconic fantasy that emphasizes the fire-breathing spellcaster, whereas Drakonid would be an expression of the physicality and presence of that same draconic fantasy. Certainly a lot more distinction here than between, say, Draenei and Lightforged, which are religious zealots and even more zealous religious zealots respectively. As Blizzard has shown us time and time again, there is room for more than one expression of a particular fantasy.

[AngerFork]

I think you combine the Dracthyrs with the Visage forms that will show armor and weapons, and they'll be fine. I really don't see a Mechagnome situation occurring here, because Dracthyrs have a class specially tailored just for them.

For example(s);
--snip--

I think the animations and spell effects are going to make people not even care about seeing transmogs in combat. I don't care about transmogs in combat when I'm on my Druid for example.

Sorry so late on the response, was in class last night.

As a Druid main, I do still tend to care about how my Druid looks, though part of that may be as I tend to go more towards Resto & Star form. I'm still going to be seeing that character's look during cutscenes as well as when I first log into the game. Especially that first log in, I get to see him surrounded by his home area wearing the gear he has earned in the tabard I've chosen for him for that particular expansion. I know the other forms will cover his look, but his base look is the one that really ties me to the character.

On a Dracthyr, that's a bit different. Their base look is one that I can update at the barber shop, but not one that shows what they have attained or the like. When I see my Dracthyr on the login screen, it will either be a dragon-like creature that was rendered through customization options & shows none of what they have worked towards or it will be a visage form that does show some of what I've done, but is in lore the disguise to who my character actually is.

[Nyel]

All the more reason to cover it up with armour.

It will be a clipping nightmare. I can see why they don’t do it (too much work), but it just adds to the feeling of them being lazy.

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I guess I shouldn't feed the troll, but Dracthyr don't need different bodies for males and females. Leave your gender norms at home please, we live in 2022.

Men and women are inherently different and so are their bodies. We are talking about a fictional race here, yet it matters and has not much to do with gender norms, more with something like… biology. If dragons would not have a gender at all, it would be true what you said. But they do.

[Sondrelk]

It will be a clipping nightmare. I can see why they don’t do it (too much work), but it just adds to the feeling of them being lazy.

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Men and women are inherently different and so are their bodies. We are talking about a fictional race here, yet it matters and has not much to do with gender norms, more with something like… biology. If dragons would not have a gender at all, it would be true what you said. But they do.

Not all animals have readily apparent sexual features. For all we know it could be as simple as only female dragons having the neck frills, or male dragons having a more prominent set of wings.

Consider for instance a cat or dog, and how it's close to impossible to tell what sex they are at a glance.

[Berkilak]

It will be a clipping nightmare. I can see why they don’t do it (too much work), but it just adds to the feeling of them being lazy.

Seems like they should just treat all the 3D detailing as "armour" in and of itself that is overridden when you wear something different. But I don't know anything about modeling, so that's probably its own headache.

[huth]

Men and women are inherently different and so are their bodies. We are talking about a fictional race here, yet it matters and has not much to do with gender norms, more with something like… biology. If dragons would not have a gender at all, it would be true what you said. But they do.

Humans are an outlier on sexual dimorphism.

[Makorus]

It will be a clipping nightmare. I can see why they don’t do it (too much work), but it just adds to the feeling of them being lazy.

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Men and women are inherently different and so are their bodies. We are talking about a fictional race here, yet it matters and has not much to do with gender norms, more with something like… biology. If dragons would not have a gender at all, it would be true what you said. But they do.

Yeah and male and female dragons look the same.

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Seems like they should just treat all the 3D detailing as "armour" in and of itself that is overridden when you wear something different. But I don't know anything about modeling, so that's probably its own headache.

It's frustrating because the Evoker tier set looks really cool but knowing I'll only be able to equip the shoulders and belt, thats a bit fucked.

[Berkilak]

It's frustrating because the Evoker tier set looks really cool but knowing I'll only be able to equip the shoulders and belt, thats a bit fucked.

Excited for my Shaman in the future, that I always wear draconic sets on anyway.

But I should be able to represent my class as the sole race that can be said class. Without turning into an Elf-lite. Imagine if Worgen needed to go into human form to show off any gear other than their helmet and pants.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not all animals have readily apparent sexual features. For all we know it could be as simple as only female dragons having the neck frills, or male dragons having a more prominent set of wings.

Consider for instance a cat or dog, and how it's close to impossible to tell what sex they are at a glance.

This discussion is getting weird(Not pointing fingers at you specifically). All I was saying the chest could be a bit more broad or slightly bigger. NOT MASSIVE that it turns into Azeroth Human muscle mass.

[Khaza-R]

I don't know why anyone would be against a bigger range of customizations / body types for any playable race. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

[tumbleweed010]

Men and women are inherently different and so are their bodies. We are talking about a fictional race here, yet it matters and has not much to do with gender norms, more with something like… biology. If dragons would not have a gender at all, it would be true what you said. But they do.

It's already been said but male/female dragons look the same. Alexstraza, while in her true form, doesn't have breasts, nor any feminine-specific features. Neither do actual lizards. Males are usually larger but there's no obvious differences outside of that.

Dracthyr (based on current knowledge of what was shown) need work but a male/female form isn't something they need or should have.

[Ersula]

Men and women are inherently different and so are their bodies. We are talking about a fictional race here, yet it matters and has not much to do with gender norms, more with something like… biology. If dragons would not have a gender at all, it would be true what you said. But they do.

There's a lot of mammals that still have a male & female but aren't dimorphic by sex. And reptiles even moreso. That's the whole conversation here. Dragons specifically in WoW, you can't tell the males from the females by looking at their dragon form.

[Sondrelk]

I don't know why anyone would be against a bigger range of customizations / body types for any playable race. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Loads of customizations are one thing. Demanding that dragons suddenly have sexual dimorphism just because they are a player race is another.

[Khaza-R]

Loads of customizations are one thing. Demanding that dragons suddenly have sexual dimorphism just because they are a player race is another.

I never said it should be gender locked. But if someone wants to be a bulkier lady or man dragon they should be able too.

[Sondrelk]

I never said it should be gender locked. But if someone wants to be a bulkier lady or man dragon they should be able too.

It's still a bit of a regression when dragons have never been shown to possess apparent dimorphic qualities.