Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Therougetitan]

Good example of stuff players think is cool but it shouldn't be. Teleportation isn't exactly paladin fantasy. Not to mention Lothar wasn't a paladin.

[Nymrohd]

Blizz was heavily inspired by D3 Crusaders when remaking Palas for Legion.

Blizz was heavily inspired by D3 in general when making Legion what with M+ (Rifts), World Quests (Bounties) and several class concepts and spells, what with most of the D3 team being folded into WoW.

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Good example of stuff players think is cool but it shouldn't be. Teleportation isn't exactly paladin fantasy. Not to mention Lothar wasn't a paladin.

True, Lothar was a warrior.

[Sondrelk]

I wonder what covenant's spells we're going to keep (if every classes keep one ofc).

Druids still have the convoke. If we keep ONE covenant' spell, what do you think we will keep?

Some go really well with the class, others I don't see.

DK : Abomination Limb
DH : Fodder to the Flame I guess
Hunter : They all fit, so dunno, maybe Death Chakram
Mage : dunno
Monk : Faeline Stomp maybe
Paladin : Divine Toll
Priest : Mindgames ?
Rogue : Any
Shaman : Vesper Totem ?
Warlock : Decimating Bolt
Warrior : Dunno

I somehow doubt Hunters will get the NF or Kyrian abilities. Flayed Shot is a likely option for Marksman though, and Survival might get a reskinned version of Death Chakram.

Most of the Covenant abilities would need a reskin, but if they got it then I imagine we might be seeing more of them. Warrior for instance could really use the Necrolord Banner ability, just reskin to a more generic banner and change the green glow to a red one and you are set.

[Greyfang]

I somehow doubt Hunters will get the NF or Kyrian abilities. Flayed Shot is a likely option for Marksman though, and Survival might get a reskinned version of Death Chakram.

Most of the Covenant abilities would need a reskin, but if they got it then I imagine we might be seeing more of them. Warrior for instance could really use the Necrolord Banner ability, just reskin to a more generic banner and change the green glow to a red one and you are set.

I'll really miss the Night Fae ability as BM, that is going to suck big time. I can see them keeping the chakram thing, we've had a similar skill before.

[Nymrohd]

I somehow doubt Hunters will get the NF or Kyrian abilities. Flayed Shot is a likely option for Marksman though, and Survival might get a reskinned version of Death Chakram.

Most of the Covenant abilities would need a reskin, but if they got it then I imagine we might be seeing more of them. Warrior for instance could really use the Necrolord Banner ability, just reskin to a more generic banner and change the green glow to a red one and you are set.

Or just let there be glyphs for talents! You could skin it after your faction or class hall and perhaps more options could be added.

[ExiHext]

Good example of stuff players think is cool but it shouldn't be. Teleportation isn't exactly paladin fantasy. Not to mention Lothar wasn't a paladin.

That's why it was called Turalyon's Might in the process, then people started moaning about the three button presses (activate reticule, throw weapon, teleport) and in the end blizz decided that was too much mobility for paladins and we instead got Divine Steed.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That's why it was called Turalyon's Might in the process, then people started moaning about the three button presses (activate reticule, throw weapon, teleport) and in the end blizz decided that was too much mobility for paladins and we instead got Divine Steed.

Divine Steed, lol I'd of preferred the other and yes Teleporting isn't Paladin Fantasy but still, coolness.

[Sondrelk]

Divine Steed, lol I'd of preferred the other and yes Teleporting isn't Paladin Fantasy but still, coolness.

It is cooler, but on the flipside it also makes teleporting less unique.
What you want from a class is ideally a steady stream of moments where you feel good about playing that specific class. Feigning death as a hunter, using teleports and portals as a mage, stealth as a rogue.
If every class has something similar to eachother then you don't get that, which is a slow killer for class identity.

[Eurhetemec]

Good example of stuff players think is cool but it shouldn't be. Teleportation isn't exactly paladin fantasy. Not to mention Lothar wasn't a paladin.

ROFL what does this even mean? So you're some kind of authority above players on what's cool? Who died and made you the Pope of Cool? I mean, what was the ceremony like when they invested you with Holy Word re: what's "allowed" to be cool? Did Fonzie place his jacket over your shoulders whilst Baywatch-era David Hasslehoff handed you the holy life-preserver or something lol?

Teleportation is no more inappropriate for Paladins than half the classes in WoW. And half the abilities WoW classes do have don't actually fit the "fantasies" terribly well. WoW's Warrior is a pretty terrible version of most "warrior" fantasies for example.

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If every class has something similar to eachother then you don't get that, which is a slow killer for class identity.

If designers decide something is "class identity" and that thing isn't terribly fun or interesting, though, or refuse to give a class something because it might slightly stand on the toes of other classes, that's a good way to start making a few classes very popular and other classes extremely unpopular. Something WoW already kind of has an issue with.

[Sondrelk]

If some classes are lacking in fun abilities then you should consider how to give them more stuff in a way that makes sense, not just giving them whatever.

Paladins don't really have any lore on why they should teleport. They did however have the ability to summon a unique mount, so instead of giving them a teleportation ability for movement they game them the ability to summon a mount briefly in combat.
It's not as spectacular or versatile, but it makes much more sense and isn't something any other class can do.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

If designers decide something is "class identity" and that thing isn't terribly fun or interesting, though, or refuse to give a class something because it might slightly stand on the toes of other classes, that's a good way to start making a few classes very popular and other classes extremely unpopular. Something WoW already kind of has an issue with.

I agree but a Paladin teleport is probably not the way to go.

[Revamp Man]

I wonder what covenant's spells we're going to keep (if every classes keep one ofc).

Druids still have the convoke. If we keep ONE covenant' spell, what do you think we will keep?

Some go really well with the class, others I don't see.

DK : Abomination Limb
DH : Fodder to the Flame I guess
Hunter : They all fit, so dunno, maybe Death Chakram
Mage : dunno
Monk : Faeline Stomp maybe
Paladin : Divine Toll
Priest : Mindgames ?
Rogue : Any
Shaman : Vesper Totem ?
Warlock : Decimating Bolt
Warrior : Dunno

Monks might keep the brew
Warriors would either be banner or the venthyr ability
Mage might be necrolord

[Lady Atia]

I wonder what covenant's spells we're going to keep (if every classes keep one ofc).

Druids still have the convoke. If we keep ONE covenant' spell, what do you think we will keep?

Some go really well with the class, others I don't see.

DK : Abomination Limb
DH : Fodder to the Flame I guess
Hunter : They all fit, so dunno, maybe Death Chakram
Mage : dunno
Monk : Faeline Stomp maybe
Paladin : Divine Toll
Priest : Mindgames ?
Rogue : Any
Shaman : Vesper Totem ?
Warlock : Decimating Bolt
Warrior : Dunno

I just want Wild Spirits, Convoke and Ashen Hollow - everything else isn't really all that memorable to me.

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I somehow doubt Hunters will get the NF or Kyrian abilities. Flayed Shot is a likely option for Marksman though, and Survival might get a reskinned version of Death Chakram.

Most of the Covenant abilities would need a reskin, but if they got it then I imagine we might be seeing more of them. Warrior for instance could really use the Necrolord Banner ability, just reskin to a more generic banner and change the green glow to a red one and you are set.

Eh, Wild Spirits is the ability that makes hunter cool in Shadowlands, I doubt they will remove it. Could see them having you making the choice between Wild Spirits or Flayed Shot though.

[Sondrelk]

I just want Wild Spirits, Convoke and Ashen Hollow - everything else isn't really all that memorable to me.

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Eh, Wild Spirits is the ability that makes hunter cool in Shadowlands, I doubt they will remove it. Could see them having you making the choice between Wild Spirits or Flayed Shot though.

Wild spirits I could see being reskinned into some kind of stampede equivalent for BM, in which case it would be pretty cool.
Unless MM gets reworked into a more button mashy variant i don't think it would really work. But again, Flayed Shot seems like a natural fit for the more technique based hunter fantasy that Marksman has.

In general I think it's a mistake to assume that all covenants abilities will be useable after Shadowlands, especially for every spec. Convoke the spirits seems like it would be a natural fit for Balance druid, but even if it was good it doesn't really strike me as a great fit for Feral, much less Guardian.

[Kaesebrezen]

I wonder what covenant's spells we're going to keep (if every classes keep one ofc).

Depends on what form they come.. as in including )covenant) legendary powers and/or something like mikanos cooldown reduction/plaguey, e.g. Adaptive Swarm for Necrolords with the split legendary, or Boon of the Ascended for Holy/Disc priest with a 1 min CD due to souldbind and legendary, or say frost mages where you can pick death born and cold front/slick ice.

There are specs where i could list several of these old/current talents/legendary powers/set boni that i want back, and then there are specs where i find it hard to even get a few abilities together i would want to keep or come back...

[Lady Atia]

Depends on what form they come.. as in including )covenant) legendary powers and/or something like mikanos cooldown reduction/plaguey, e.g. Adaptive Swarm for Necrolords with the split legendary, or Boon of the Ascended for Holy/Disc priest with a 1 min CD due to souldbind and legendary, or say frost mages where you can pick death born and cold front/slick ice.

There are specs where i could list several of these old/current talents/legendary powers/set boni that i want back, and then there are specs where i find it hard to even get a few abilities together i would want to keep or come back...

Depending on how deep the trees go, I could imagine having covenant legendary effects as something you can skill down the line if you got the covenant ability?

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Wild spirits I could see being reskinned into some kind of stampede equivalent for BM, in which case it would be pretty cool.
Unless MM gets reworked into a more button mashy variant i don't think it would really work. But again, Flayed Shot seems like a natural fit for the more technique based hunter fantasy that Marksman has.

In general I think it's a mistake to assume that all covenants abilities will be useable after Shadowlands, especially for every spec. Convoke the spirits seems like it would be a natural fit for Balance druid, but even if it was good it doesn't really strike me as a great fit for Feral, much less Guardian.

Oh yeah, that would be fine with me. To make it clear, I don't really care about MM/SV, but BM should keep their Wild Spirits as it's the ability that currently creates the glasscannon playstyle.

[Kiivar86]

Warriors better keep Condemn. I fucking love that spell.

Also as for the paladin teleport thing, eh I think its a neat idea, obviously, but the multi-click requirement does sound like a bit more annoying setup.

[Foolicious]

I wonder what covenant's spells we're going to keep (if every classes keep one ofc).

Druids still have the convoke. If we keep ONE covenant' spell, what do you think we will keep?

Some go really well with the class, others I don't see.

DK : Abomination Limb
DH : Fodder to the Flame I guess
Hunter : They all fit, so dunno, maybe Death Chakram
Mage : dunno
Monk : Faeline Stomp maybe
Paladin : Divine Toll
Priest : Mindgames ?
Rogue : Any
Shaman : Vesper Totem ?
Warlock : Decimating Bolt
Warrior : Dunno

Its a personal preference but i think some classes are better without covenant spells. I would love for druid to get all covenant spells for example.
Shaman, Priest, Mage, warlock and Paladin don't need any of them in my opinion.
The hunt for dh, abomination limb for dk, Condemn and the brew(less necrolord themed) for monks would be fitting i guess. Didn't play rogue in sl so no idea what to pick.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The soul Conduit "Mortal combo" is pretty nice for warriors.

[Nymrohd]

Its a personal preference but i think some classes are better without covenant spells. I would love for druid to get all covenant spells for example.
Shaman, Priest, Mage, warlock and Paladin don't need any of them in my opinion.
The hunt for dh, abomination limb for dk, Condemn and the brew(less necrolord themed) for monks would be fitting i guess. Didn't play rogue in sl so no idea what to pick.

For Paladin I think Divine Toll really fits the fantasy, especially for Prot. I enjoy Ashen Hallow but it is far too oppressive when it comes to design. It just limits what you can allow the class to do outside of it.